The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1941 Canadian Military Pattern - "Warbolts with Niels"

Hello All
New member here from Denmark.
I currently have a 1941, Canadian Military Pattern, 12 Cab, Chevrolet Artillery Tractor, and most likely a 13 cab Chevrolet needing restoration will joint later this year.

Additionally I have a couple of British lorries.
But it has been a dream for me for years, to find and get a short 1941-47 "AK" Series COE, tractor unit or wrecker.
If any one knows of a good running non modified that would be available/for sale I would be very interested to hear more.
Cheers
Niels

Niels

Welcome to Stovebolt. That's quite the rig you have there.

Be sure to check out The International Zone here. There are quite a few members in Europe, and I believe some near you as well.

Welcome Neils

Fantastic to have another Chevrolet CMP owner join our community. As Kevin said, quite a nice rig you have!

Not only are there other members in Europe, but some in Canada as well that have CMP's.

A helpful tool in searching this site is located in the left page margin titled "Searching the Site". If you click on the first link in that box it will provide you a place to enter a search topic, such as CMP, and give a list of exiting posts that you can click on and open to read that include "CMP" in their conversations. That should help you locate fellow CMP owners as well as discussions about CMP's in general.

Am sure we will love to see more posts about your truck, and another future CMP to join the ranks later.

Once again, Welcome to the Stovebolt!

Searching the member list for Denmark turns up around 15 members, none with very many posts, though. But if you're looking for other guys in your area, that's a possibility. I believe you need to be out of moderation (4 more posts) to be able to see the member list.

Hi
Thank you all for the warm welcome.
I suspect I potentially know some of the CMP owners, we seem to be a close knit group world wide.
and thanks for the kind words about about my Chevy, I am very fond of it, its a nice little truck. It has an interesting mix of military specific parts and pre war truck parts, e.g. the dash and knobs are civilian pre war.


One of my main reasons for joining is also the search of a AK series COE. I have been dreaming about owning one for years and I am now in a position where I can buy one.
So I really hope I can find a Short WB good running unmodified.

Cheers Niels

Welcome to the 'bolt. I agree with others... that is an interesting vehicle.

Please place ads in the swap meet area for any parts or trucks you are looking for.

Thanks again
It also has some rather funny features, eg. The accelerator pedal is in the middle between clutch and brake, something that can really surprise the untrained.
But its a nice little short (101"WB) and boxy truck that can seat the whole family.
The body on mine is partially original and partially rebuild by previous owner, (its quite common for them to have lost the rear end in civilian service),
I have just been improving upon the details he didn't have access to at the time of rebuild (long live the internet).
I bought it in Norway from guy in the city of Tromsø, 270miles above the artic circle.
The reason for my interest in them are, that I as child build the Tamiya 1/35 scale model of it (albeit the kit is the Ford version), and then it just sort of got stuck in the back of my head.
I will give the wanted adds try for a AK COE

Oh Niels, this is priceless:


Taking the fam out for a picnic. I guess you can get any spot you like on the beach!

Neils, do you have a picture of the completed model you can share? I'd like to see that.

The Truck still needs a bit of fettling, before its ready for a beach trip, but I think my girls would think it would be fun

Additionally it does also have a nice winch (actually a Ford axle) mounted in the middle of the chassis, that can be drawn out both to the front and rear to get it self out of trouble.
But if it ever got stuck I would most likely just bring out my Scammell wrecker and recover it, its sort of build for the task.

(The chassis/cab in the picture is a Ford, but they very closely related)

Not a bad idea with the models, Tamiya also made model of a Canadian "AK" series Chevrolet i British Long Range Dessert Group service, basically where I got my interest for "AK's" from.
I recently found out that Revell made a 1/25 41 Chevy pickup truck that I have been meaning to get.

That Scammel Pioneer is really cool.

Just as Ford built Willys Jeeps with identical interchangeable parts (albeit Every Ford part was stamped with the Ford oval), they also built CMP designs identical to the Chevrolet version. The chassis/cab in the picture is the early design of the F60S, I think judging by the apparently short wheelbase.

Do you know why the CMP designs weren't built for commercial purposes after the war?

Yes a Scammell has a certain presence.
The Ford and Chevrolet CMPs, are not quite as interchangeable as with the jeeps, but there are still plenty of shared things, and the Ford parts book even list the Chevrolet axles as some where built with these. I had a F15A (hidding between the Scammell and Chevy) with a Ford front axle and Chevy rear. The Chevy was considered to be the superior in terms of reliability, so much so certain units specified that they wanted only Ford with Chevy axles.
The chassis on the picture is of a Gun tractor, so it has the F60 size parts (Heavy axles, 20" wheels etc), but is only a 101" wb (like the 8cwt and 15cwt) and where the F60S was a 134" wb.
And yes correct, its the first type, cab 11, a design which where lacking in accessibility for maintenance and creature comforts.

I suspect the reason for not producing CMP´s (Canadian Military Pattern) to the civilian market, is that they where deemed too rugged for commercial sales, further more there where so many available surplus from the armies I think it would have been hard to compete.
But in general, I can more or less only think of a few military vehicles types that was sold commercially after the war, and all of these where basically civilian prewar vehicles that where adapted to military service.
maybe the general public where tried from war and wanted a fresh start.

Never heard of them but here they are.

Hi Ron
Yes Scammell didn't really export to USA, so they are not well know in the states, they where more directed towards the home market, commonwealth and middle east.
Their specialty was tractors and trucks for heavy loads both on and off road, but they did also do a range of normal truck.

Some of their icons are
The 100 Tonner, a truck and trailer combination designed in eight months in 1929, for carrying Steam trains to the dock from the factory. originally powered by a 7 litre 4 cyl petrol engine, which later was changed to a 8.4litre six cylinder diesel, the greatest load it carried was 165tons! in 1935, and it was in service until the fifties.
http://www.historicroadways.co.uk/scammell-100-tonner.html


The Scammell Pioneer, a truck originally designed in the early thirties for pulling oil pipeline tubes through the difficult terrain of Mesopotamia, in the infancy of the middle eastern oil industry.
The chassis design then served as a basis for the British army's Heavy Wrecker, Heavy Artillery tractor and Tank transporter, during WW2.
Its slow and heavy but unstoppable, with very good off road performance.
It served as a basis for a post war version.
Some of them where still in military service by the late seventies early eighties (mine served from 44 to 72), and a few are still being used occasionally by civilian companies for the odd recovery or heavy transport jobs.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlAr9Pfdiy0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WozopqSb85g

The Scammell Mechanical horse/Scarabe
Its a 3 wheeled tractor unit, that could tow loads up to around 6 tons, designed with maneuverability in mind, the front wheel turns 360, so it could get in, out and around in narrow places.
And the trailer coupling was designed so you just reversed on to the trailer, and it would automatically connect brakes, lights and flip up the trailer stand with out the driver getting out of the cab.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Scarab

They also did some of the very early tanker trailers with internal bulkheads

From the video and pictures their beast. Some remind me of the Deuce and half I drove in Viet Nam.

Ron, was that the Reo M35 or the GMC M135 back then ? I always liked the M135

Niels,

What a great bit of info you've put in up here! I really like all the photos you shared. egular link.

Thanks.

Okay Peggy. Here is a bit more about the pioneer and its use

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvgkqdQvqq8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e8Hxh9jW7c
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-W8FSUFE_g

Niels V, I would tell you but that was many many years ago. But if I was to guess it was the m135. Google says it was the M39. I do know it drove like a brick, I was told the shocks were rebuildable but they were not supplied with kits so they put beer cans in them.

A Vietnam era Deuce and a half would have been an M35A1 or M35A2. The shop I ran back in the '70's changed out many engines and injector pumps in them. There apparently was a Canadian version tagged an M135, but I don't know about those. The M39 was a 5 ton.
Back in my college days in ROTC, I drove one that had a Hydromatic transmission in it. That was in the late '60s.

Hi Kevin
Yes I think only very few GMC M135s where used in Vietnam, it was more in Korean war thing, and also it didn't have a very long service life compared with the M35.
As I understand it the M135 was basically an updated version of the wartime GMC CCKW 353

its always fun to share information.
Here is a picture of what my truck would have been doing 80 years ago. from www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205203840.

Niels -- GREAT info sharing!! Fascinating WW2 history -- thanks for sharing it with us and please keep it coming!

We're just glad you're here and sharing what you know with us -- it's fascinating and very cool! THANK YOU!!!

I have my popcorn .... ready for the next episode of "Warbolts with Niels"

John

Just because the world is very small, I have had this picture from an old truck calendar hanging for years in my work shop, and its one of the reason why I am so hooked on AK COE's.
Since I have joined here I have realized that it owned by a long term bolter member Bill.
I do also have a couple of classic cars, from the fifties and sixties

Ya know, I've seen that truck a time or two. I often ask "What's the point?"

I just don't get it ...

I think that picture was taken in South Bend in 2011. Not sure. I was approached by guy who said he wanted to shoot some pictures. He really didn't say what they were for and I really didn't care so I said sure. A few months later I was getting calls and emails from people telling me they were at their FLAPS or a service station and saw my truck on a calendar hanging on the wall. Pretty cool.
Last summer I went to a local Sunday morning cruise in that we sometimes go to and a guy walks up to me that I have seen before but I don't really know. In his hand he has what is obviously a fairly large wrapped up picture frame of some kind. I opened it up and it was me tooling down the road in the coe. I figured it was one of those deals where the guys says, you can have but it going to cost you 50 bucks or something. Nope, he said, "its for you" and walked away. One of my favorite pictures.

John is referring to little show we all went to in Virginia. Apparently a couple of guys were seen staring at the front of the big yellow COE and one asked the other, "why?".

Its been a long running joke ever since. Hey, Niels and I know WHY!

Niels and I have been talking via pm. I am keeping my eyes peeled for a COE for him.

When Niels said a calendar, it didn't quite look like one of ours from earlier years. This is the one we have for the 2023 "Stovebolts at Work" calendar.

That was nice for the fellow to bring you the print. Definitely an act of kindness.

Glad to hear Niels has touched base with you.

It was this 2013 calendar it was from. Picture taken by Gary Nelson.

That was a nice gesture by that guy with the framed picture.

And thanks all, with a bit of patience a COE must appear at some point, though I might venture in to a normal cabbed on in the meantime.

Something should be joining my 41 CMP Chevrolet very soon, Will update once it manifest.... happy as clam

Niels,

Thanks for the heads up on the potential for an addition to your CMP collection, or did you find that "other truck" you had been looking for???

Looking forward to the story and pics as you can provide!

Don't forget to post an update in the The International Zone forum too!

Dan

I found the truck I was looking for and it was actually "local" by American standards

Thanks Niels.

Can't wait to hear and see more about the truck.