The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1950 COE Model 5703 - (AZ)

Hello from Mesa, AZ
I just purchased a 1950 Chevrolet C.O.E. I believe it to be a model 5703. It currently has a nice stake bed with diamond plate deck. The bed is on two LARGE hydraulic cylinders. I does not currently dump. Will have to check that out. The truck sure looks complete and it last ran in a 2021 Christmas parade. Body seems straight, paint is maroon. Not so sure its original. Interior was painted baby blue. I'd like to change that some day. What tells the original color of the truck?

Anyway, its currently in Tucson and I'm going down from Mesa this weekend to try and get it running. I have arranged for a flat deck trailer to haul it home.

A few questions:
1. With the 235 6 and that granny tranny, I bet it has a low top speed? Any suggestions how to improve the top speed?
2. I understand it has some power brake system. Has anyone added power steering to replace the "Armstrong" Steering?
3. Any suggested improvements to the truck and engine (I saw an HEI on a six in another photo)
4. How do you feel about engine/trans swaps? Seems like a 6 Cylinder diesel and Automatic would make a decent swap, but then the rear end gearing would need to be considered.
5. I've heard some people swapping the cabs on more modern chassis. Thoughts? Ideas? or Drive it like it is.

Is there a specific forum or other sites you guys can recommend to me that specializes or discusses these C.O.E.'s besides here? (
Look forward to participating and asking lots of questions! (Typical newbie!)

Marty
Mesa, AZ

Welcome to the Stovebolt

I'd get it running and stopping so I could drive it around before I make any decisions on swapping the drive line. You might enjoy the slower pace of driving an antique truck!

The truck was built to run on roads that had max speed limits of 50 mph. Trying to make it run faster will involve new brakes, suspension, steering, engine and transmission upgrades. There have been a lot of nice old trucks torn apart only to end up as unfinished projects because the owner didn't factor in the high cost in time and money to finish the job. Installing the cab on a modern chassis can be done, but you'll find the cab is very narrow and won't just drop on any frame without modifications.

Mike B

Thanks Mike.
Yes, going to get it running and driving again. I need to replace the wiring harness as the cloth covered wiring is shot
Then have to deal with the tires, they are old and cracked. Not sure what my options are there. I was reading the forum about tires and wheels. Doesn't look like wheels to fit are readily available so the switch to tubeless radials could be made.
I saw the thread on disc brake conversions that Grigg started but I never found a summary of what worked, no photos and no indication of which members actually carried out the conversion successfully. I can do machining here in my home shop.
One step at a time....

Disc brake front hub/spindles from ‘91 to ‘01 +/- GMC P-3500 HD trucks will fit your 2 ton front axle without tires sticking out of the fenders with 5/10 on 7.25” wheel bolt pattern. Need to make or get new king pin bushings. Rear disc brake D-80 with that bolt pattern will fit, too. 22.5” rims with that bolt pattern off late ‘50’s trucks are rare, but do exist, so lookout for them on farm trucks, school buses. Otherwise 19.5” tires have similar OD to original tires.

Hang out here for a while, most of your questions will be answered.

Ed

Ed, I really appreciate this. I can machine new bushings, I would expect bronze bushings machined to fit?
Did the rear end out of the 91-01 3500 work? I am assuming P-3500 are all trucks EXCEPT the pickup trucks/Vanduras? If so, then ideally a donor truck of that vintage would make the best basis for a repower/suspension upgrade?
How about Single rear wheel vehicles of the 91-01 Vintage? Likely not?
I would really like to keep the original chassis, save all that work, just upgrade the steering, suspension, drivetrain.....I'd be fine keeping the old transmission because it has a PTO for the dump bed.

Marty

Front spindles/hubs as I used require dished wheels to match duals on rear. If one uses non-dished wheels on the front, then singles on the rear, then suitable width D-80 axle will have to be found or special wheels made. Not sure if that has answered your question?


Might need to get high gear ratio in your D-80 if using original trans.

Another question answered above might provide additional answers.

Ed

Welcome to the site Marty, and that's a really nice Cabover you have there. I've been a Collector of GM COE trucks for almost 40 yeas, and have owned exactly thirty of them in this time frame. I've always left my trucks Factory stock, and have enjoyed them just as much "as is" versus doing a lot of updating. Here's my present 47-54 Style COE. It's a 1952 GMC 470 series, 3 1/2 ton, with a Holmes Heavy Duty Wrecker on it's back. Keep on Truckin !

What Mike B said. The song I have High hopes comes to mind and a change of lyrics too deep Pockets. It becomes while you are here syndrome. I know I did that and what I have is nowhere near what I put into it. But so is any new car you buy or lease. Have fun. I hoping to leave mine to my son who has no interest in it, so I will not be around to see what he sells it for.

There's such a wealth of experienced information here it sometimes gets me overwhelmed, but I feel blessed I was referred to this forum. There is another site that I am on but it's for my 66 C-10, once I got my COE those kind folks sent me to this forum, I'm glad they did;
here's a link to it
https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/index.php
Chances are they might send you back here
If I get my Power Steering done before you get yours figured out I'll post the information of what I did,, I can also think that if we dont use PS after a short time we'll have forearms like Popeye, so that might save cost of going to a gym.

I have seen your truck Spanky, very nice!
I can appreciate some wanting to keep the truck original and some going the opposite and putting the cab on a modern chassis.
Right now, I want to make it roadworthy with some modern upgrades, mostly safety related and convenience.

Marty

ED, I have a lead on a 2000 Chevy 3500HD complete front axle assembly, It was cobbled onto Chucks 1959 LCF Truck. The steering linkage is forward and I thought all 3500HD axles from '99 to '02 had the linkage behind the axle?

Mike,
I completely understand your point. I am no stranger to Hot Rodding and indeed you can go DEEP into a rabbit hole. Right now, I am of the mindset to get the truck somewhat roadworthy. The truck needs tires. I don't really want to spend a lot on tires if eventually I want to do a front/rear axle upgrade.
I tend to do much research and like to talk to people who have been there and done that so I can get a feel for what was involved, what they would do differently and what the correct "recipe" is.
I have seen much theoretical talk about front and rear axle upgrades but not run into anyone that has done it and has pictures. So I tread there with some caution until I do some more research.

Marty

Turtleman,
Do let us know how you get along with your power steering. I think though your truck and my 50 COE may be too different?
Marty

Marty, keep looking, you will find something that works. Since you know to find rear tie rod, you will find the rest of proper parts.

ED

ED, so then not all 3500HD from 1991-2002 have the behind the axle steering linkage? Only Motor homes and box trucks??

Depends, ‘P’ trucks have it in the rear, Bluebird buses have in the rear, non’P’ trucks have it in the front, just need to find new steer arms for those, I did that. SnapOn used some of that running gear a few years back, look for obsolete trucks. Easy enough to inspect when found.

Ed

I had found a LONG Wheelbase 94 Chevy 3500 HD with the 19.5 wheels and the 5/10 lug pattern. Dana 80
So its usable? Too bad you can't just flop spindles side to side. :-)
I have not see the truck yet. So by steering arms, they are removable from the spindle assembly?

Thanks for tolerating the newbie questions....
Marty

Marty,

Yes, the spindles are the same, arms are not. Easy to tell if tie rod is rear or front. I heard there are two sets of front axles in PHX somewhere, might be a place called 'Desert Mountain' yard that has some stockpiled. Wanted $500. Each. OK price. If a non P, might be worth getting if all there for decent price. I found a place in BC that I got my rear steer arms from, knew what I was talking about, Eh. Not need axle, just everything else. I got power steering box from something else, but if included, good deal. Had to shorten drag link, made
LH die to cut threads. I got tie rod from 1960's truck, just need correct taper to fit arms.

Keep eyes out for 10 on 8.750", tubeless (22.5") wheels. Can be redrilled to 10 on 7.25" bolt pattern with shop made adapter sleeve. See my px on earlier text, two different white wheels.

Ed

If anyone knows of any rear steer arms for a 1991-2002HD "P" front end, let me know. I am acquiring a 1994 Chevy 3500HD donor truck. I will keep my frame, swap out the 2 speed rear end in favor of the Dana 80, will reuse parts of the front end but its front steer so per Ed, I need to find a pair of rear steer arms.

Thanks in advance!
Marty

Marty,

When you get a sec, suggest you post a "Parts Wanted" ad for these in the Swap Meet here: Modern GM and Non-GM Forum

This Forum is specifically for members who "WANT TO SELL or BUY" "Modern GM and Non-GM" items.

Best of luck in your hunt for the parts you need!

EDIT: Congrats Marty on getting an ad up for what your looking for!!!

Ed. I’d like to know what size/brand or where you found those rims, they look great. I’m not excited about using the 20” split rim that I’ve got and am a wheel short anyway. Mine are not the true widow makers though and would likely work.

GK,

Which rims are you talking about, the ivory colored with two different ones in the picture or grey ones?

Ed

Yes, the ivory ones. They look close to original 10 bolt gm. Are they 20” or fit new metric equivalents?

Marty in Mesa I once bought a 48 2 ton with less than 50 k miles with cherry cab I thought I would use on a pickup. Well once I drove it I saw it was way to good to rob like that !! It is now my best dump truck,use it to haul about 8,000 lb. white rock for the drive way,there is something about that spreaderman skill once you master it you'll stay a spreaderman !! Oh you'll also likely become a scooperman at times while learning.

Ivory one(dually) is a GM 22.5” off a ‘60’s truck, 10 on 8.750” bolt pattern, with a 5/10 on 7.25” bolt pattern drilled. Requires hub(simple) adapter .

Other(single) is also 22.5” wheel with custom center made in my shop, professionally welded.

Ed

Providing some updates on my 1950 Chevy COE project.

Firstly, I opted to "restomod" the truck. The ultimate goal is to be a flatbed car hauler (or haul whatever is needed). It's meant to be a usable driver not a "show" truck.

Drivetrain came from a 1994 C3500HD truck. It was well maintained and had 140K miles on it. I have used the 454/4L80E engine out of the truck, mounted behind the cab, and under the deck which will be hydraulically actuated for servicing the drivetrain and assisting in loading the vehicles.

I have used the Dana 80 differential (with disc brakes) with relocated spring perches. I took the front sway bar from the 3500HD and relocated it to the Dana 80 differential.

I have added shock absorbers to all 4 corners and a steering stabilizer.

I have swapped in the front spindles onto the original COE axle. I had to source the steering arms from a a rear steer truck. (steering behind the front axle) to make the conversion simpler. I followed what Grigg had started, Ed Pruss had also lent suggestions/ideas and part numbers for the steering arms. I did have to mill the COE axle where the spindles mate up to the COE axle, just a bit.

I plan to use the steering box from a 1978 Dodge W300. this box hangs on the side of the frame in a cradle. The pitman arm hangs vertically. I will have to fabricate a drag link.

I was able to reuse the COE tie Rod and Tie rod ends. I did have to open up the drag link hole in the steering arm a bit with a readily available reamer. This will allow using a COE tie rod end on one end of the drag link. I plan to use a Dodge tie rod end on the pitman side of the drag link.

I am using the Hydroboost brake system from the 3500HD in the same position as the original brake master cylinder was located. I machined a bracket for it.

Currently, all fabrication is done on on the COE chassis (with the exception of the steering box/drag link). I am doing final assembly of the drive train now. So at least I can see progress and get that second wind!

Wheel choices are up in the air. Since the COE had 38" tall tires and the wheels/tires from the 3500HD were much shorter, I decided to look for some 22.5" RV Alcoa wheels. I did find a set, but using them in a DUALIE configuration in the back would make them stick out too far. I found a nice set of Semi Super Singles that have a 5" offset and look like they will tuck under the bed nicely. Getting ready to machine wheel adapters to test this conglomeration.

Cab is at a friend's house getting body worked and painted after I blasted it using a heavy duty pressure washer along with one of those cheap sand blasting attachment. it worked OK; saved me a bunch of money. But had to sand off the surface rust. But cheaper and easier to do than mechanically sanding off the paint.

Planned color scheme is to go back to its original color of Seacrest Green on the cab and doors, and black on the fenders, front bumper, cab steps and bed deck.

I got turned into to the City of Mesa for having an inoperable vehicle in the driveway so while the cab is at paint, I will get as far as I can on the chassis, which I was able to move into my air conditioned garage. (I live in Mesa, AZ just outside of Phoenix, a necessity for me!) When the cab comes back from paint, I will assemble it as far as possible and then marry the cab back to its chassis.

I am documenting progress on in my Google Photo's album. Its a mish/mash of pictures and some of the parts I have used and their part numbers for future reference. I save all receipts. When the truck is done, I will try to make a project book listing the parts and part numbers (and vehicles they came off of) for future reference. See the ALBUM HERE.

This Journey started in November of 2022. I am retired so I have more time to work on it. Like all Hot Rod projects, they take a lot of planning, time and money.

If there are questions, post them here in this thread and I will TRY and answer them. As with all Hot Rod projects, things are fluid and can and DO change. While I feel I have somewhat of a handle on things, I always get bit!

Marty

Wow! Very nice photo documentary of your build! Keep up the great work!

Finished wheels and tires mounted on truck.

Ed