The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts "Widow Maker" wheels

In a recent thread I asked the following question.
I have heard two sides of this story, and I would like to understand this issue. I have read that there are two kind of splitrim wheels, and supposely one kind is dangerous and the other is safer, is this true? Is there some link to accurate information on this subject? When were these rims used I thinking year to year here guys. If I have read the information right they were used for years? Are they truly dangerous if properly maintained, and procedure is followed during mounting? Sorry the older I get the more I question everything. [Roll Eyes]

Frank54 responded with the years produced and the statement that "most DOTs had outlawed them". First and foremost, Frank I appreiciate your response and I dont doubt your opinion, but you are stating an opinion and I am looking for actual facts. Now with that disclaimer out of the way can anyone post a link or links to either support or disprove the actual leagality of these type of wheels? If in fact these wheels were in use from the 40s to the late 70s before being "outlawed", I would suspect that there should pages and pages of information supporting the facts. I did a Google search and found no evidence on this! Is the DOT ban on them Federal or State?
Once again Frank I am not discounting your opinion just looking for facts.
:confused:

Obsa,

I can't cite a specific place to find this out...

I do remember Marlyand DOT making a stink about the two-piece wheel back in the late '70s or early '80s due to a couple of accidents allegedly caused by this type of rim coming apart on the road.
I distinctly remember this making the TEE-vee news...

That said, I doubt there was a Federal mandate; if there was, you should be able to find something out from the National Transportation Safety Board...

Otherwise, you could check with your state's DOT ?

Every time within the last ten years I've talked to tire dealers here in PA about 20" truck tires, they ask me what kind of rims I have and tell me about the 2-piece widow-makers, etc...

I have never gotten flack over the 3 piece wheel ( except from the tire monkey that actually had to change them)

I will check around and see what (if anything) PA has on the subject...

Perhaps I had my gummint-agencies cornfused...

Perhaps not DOT or NTSA, but rather OSHA ?

Check out this link:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=ny&vol=079&invol=0289

So far my Googling has turned-up several lawsuits regarding "tire explosions involving multi-piece rims"...

Here's another one:

http://www.tireaccidents.com/types_of_failure.htm

(And if PI lawyers are putting the monkey on the back of the local tire dealer, no wonder they don't want us pulling in there with our old multi-piece rims...)

Will keep looking...

Thanks Frank, just to put forth my own opinion and at this point that is all it really is, I would think that any type of wheel that was in production for thirty to fourty plus years would have to be safe if and this is the important part they were properly maintained and procedure was followed during mounting. This is an issue that is still " a far piece down the road on our restoration", and as such not an immediate problem. One other opinion I will put forth the Tire Shop Managers and tire monkeys opinion at this point I relate to the Parts store person opinion when they tell me "Its not in my computer so it does not exist".

I went through this same discussion when I was trying to find out if I could use the original rims on my 49 1-ton. So here's a link to an article that you might find interesting and it seems to provide some details on what is, and what isn't, a "widowmaker" rim. Read the article on "Setting the Record Straight". Hope this helps. The 3-piece rims don't seem to fall into this category but it all gets down to the condition of the rim, regardless of how many pieces there are.

http://www.retread.org/PDF/SettingTheRecordStraight.pdf

Thanks Rocky, this is more of the type of information that I am looking for. Anyone else have information or "fuel to add to the fire"?

Here's some more information that you might find useful. This is the actual OSHA guidance on rim matching.
http://www.tireindustry.org/pdf/osha_Rim%20Matching.pdf

This one has the mount/dismount procedures as well as some inspection procedure information.

http://www.tireindustry.org/pdf/osha_Demount-Mount.pdf

Here are some Buffalo chips for the fire!

In California, rims are identified as single piece, multi-piece, or split/divided.

The single piece rim is the obvious current day automotive and big truck item.

The multi-piece rims is also a popular rim in big rigs and many off highway application.

The split/divided rim is not usually for over the road use, and is pretty scarce. I have this style on a Hyster forklift here at work.

The divided rim consists of two halves that bolt together in the approximate middle. Six bolts hold the halves together, and another six bolt hold the assembly to the hub..12 bolts in all.

The multi-piece rim was developed to allow heavy commercial tires with very stiff sidewalls to be mounted more easily. It also had the added benefit of a very large inside diameter that allowed large brake assemblies which were required for these large trucks.

There are specific recommendations for assembling the multi-piece rims, and for inflating them safely, as has been posted above.

In my area, we have literally hundreds of logging trucks, most use the multi-piece rim. I am 60 years old, and never remember reading about a tire related fatality locally.

I will confess to driving a small Caterpillar forklift out to my shop with a partially inflated/flat steering tire. I made it about 20 feet when I heard a loud bang and saw dust fly in a unit of lumber some distance away.

The small multi-piece rim had done its thing, and launched the outer ring 15 feet across the mill into a pile of lumber!

As they say...you can't fix stupid, but I'm trying. :rolleyes:

Stuart

the assumption that something is safe because it there was no law against it is sorta, well, fuzzy i'm thinking. there were few government agencies in those days overseeing vehicle construction. remember in the post ww2 era, the government had bigger fish to fry.
you might find some info in the osha webpage, but i think there may be more info in the federal motor vehicle safety standards (fmvss). info on the 121 braking system, standards for the composition of brake shoes, wheels and tire specs, etc, should be contained in their specs./ good luck wading through the muck of thousands of laws, rules, and regs.

remember that there may not be a "law" per sey, but rather a "standard" or regulation. either way, it applies. the exception may be private ownership of a non-commercial motor vehicle, also, the rules apply to the date of manufacture, so older vehicles are usually "grandfathered".

as to getting some idiot to change a true split rim on a 50 plus year old vehicle, good luck with that. not that they are not out there, but they are getting harder to find. most of the guys who were not killed, but rather lost fingers, hands, etc.. are long gone. maybe you will get lucky. in this part of the world the commercial tire shops refuse to fool with the rims, mostly i'm sure, to insurance. in the truck tire store where i buy my tires, there is a sign, with a picture, and they do a tremendous business with the farmers, and older rims. they refuse to change split rims, no argument. they refuse to change any multi piece rim that isn't inspected by the manager. any cracks, or excessive rust, and they point blank refuse to even remount the tire. they give you back the pieces along with the old tire, and tell you to have a nice day.

there are alternatives that weigh less, don't self destruct when they go flat, are cheaper, and any tire shop will change them, they run cooler, and last longer, but some guys insist on what they have for reasons known only to them.

in fact, due to the age of the truck, the rims might well be exempt from the current standard. older semi tractors (before 70 i think) didn't need to have front brakes---at all. those trucks are still legal on the highway, but, remember the highway was mostly all 55 mph for big trucks back then (interstate) and 50 on secondary roads and weight limits were much lower. your truck was probably made for 40-50 mph "good roads", and a much lower weight limit.

my calender says 2006.

I've seen a few multi-part rims come apart when being inflated... kind of scary.. but they were mostly due to the lock rings not being properly seated... ever seen a round tire cage? I have.

I walked into a tire store and got the same speach when looking for tires for my 41. Split rims can kill! Well ok. So I started to hunt for some wheels that would fit. I found some ten luggers off a1978 GMC bread van. The only problem was the center hole is bigger than on a 41 11/2 ton, so I use the axels from my old 54 2 ton which had 51/4" center holes and smaller rear drums. The track in the front is 2 1/2 inches wider on each side than a 41 but only a 1/2 inch wider than a 46, so everything fit rather nicely. The wheels were sandblasted and powder coated for $16 each, new radial tires were mounted, they are lighter and easier to mess with and to be honest don't all that different on a dump truck any way. Each to their own solution. I just didn't want to spend $1500 on tires and place them on wheels no one was willing to maintain. But I'm not a purest. Good luck on your solution.

This got me wondering and I checked with two local tire shops (Les Schwab and Nelson out here in the west). Both have no problem working on multi-piece rims if they are the type with the lock ring. What they call a 'widowmaker' is the true split rim that locks together in the middle, they can't see it after the tire is on.

I change these things myself all the time. I use a couple of HUGE screwdrivers, a medium-size sledge, & a mattock to break the seal (looks very similar to the official tire tool used in "real" tire shops) believe it or not. If the old tire is "stuck" on there it can be interesting & sweaty to get 'er off. While inflating, I wrap several loops of heavy chain through all of the holes in the wheel and around the tire. My opinion is, if it holds while being inflated you are home free. -Also, ANY tire shop worth a hoot should be able & willing to change these. They are true wimps if they refuse... really they're not all that scary if you take reasonable precaution. Call if you want pointers on doing it! -John, Reno NV 775-722-2955

Don't have on my truck but bought a vintage travel trailer some years ago that had the outer ring. Shoulda probly just replaced them but found a truck tire shop that happily sold me tires, tubes and the guys didn't flinch about putting them on. I sat in a greasy chair and watched them do it right on the ground in front of me. They had an old piece of carpet on the ground to give them purchase when they moved the wheel around. They've been doing this for years and probly just knew instinctively that if the rings looked like they didn't belong to the wheel or there was too much rust, they wouldn't move forward. They didn't look for markings or make any fuss whatsoever. No special cage. Just old fashioned grunt work. Illegal? Probly not. Dangerous? Probly.