The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Ignition Conversions?

I've got a 1951 GMC 451 with a 270. I'm getting ready to do a tune up and have seen ignition conversions that do away with the points and condenser. It appears that there are several manufacturers including Mallory. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with them? Would like to keep the stock look with a more user-friendly spark so to speak.

Thank

Stay away from Pertronix.

Convert your existing dizzy to General Motors HEI system. You can do it yourself or send your unit to one of the companies that converts it for you.

Here is one.

DAVE's small-body HEIs Converts your original points style distributor to HEI system
24 Buffalo Lane
Yerington, Nevada, 89447
775- 722-3294
info@davessmallbodyheis.com
http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

I converted my distributor with Deve’s HEI. http://devestechnet.com/Home/HEIgnition

Saw Mill

Does your GMC have positive or negative ground?
Is you GMC 6v or 12v?

Otto : Is the General Motors HEI for a 6v or12v system (does positive/negative ground matter?

lumber sawyer : It look like Deve's system is 12v only?

Been running Pertronix in a 261 for near ten years and playing with a 235 using a 216 dizzy due to tight engine bay space....both conversion done myself using different Pertronix kits......no issue so far!!!! using negative ground, hot shot coil and modern sparkplug wires to handle the extra juice......using AC43 for plugs and premium gas no alcohol.

Thanks to all for the info. The guy that I bought it from had converted it over to 12v with a positive ground.
The guy that I bought it from had converted it over to 12v with a positive ground.

The Deve setup uses an obsolete trigger wheel and pickup coil for a MOPAR six cylinder ignition system that was only produced for a short time, to trigger a Delco ignition module. It would make a lot more sense to use the whole GM system adapted to a stovebolt housing. It only works on 12V negative ground, also.
Jerry

My truck was 12v when I bought it. Non running converted way back maybe in the 70's. I don't like 6v on anything. I've converted all my old tractors to 12v and personally would never even consider 6v as an option. Thats just me, I know some people want original OEM, but I want reliability, ease of use and parts. I went with Deve's HEI system, and it was not hard to do. I have not run my truck yet as I'm still assembling it, maybe this winter I'll get to the point where I can, by spring drive it out of the garage. So far, I've rebuilt everything on it. I started in Feb 22 and hope to have it all done by spring. My truck will look close to it's original form, I'm not putting a V8 in it. It had a 235 in it, and a sm420 4speed. I added a Gear Venders overdrive so my final ratio will be 3.55 to 1. The rear end is in very good shape, as was the steering and front end. I rebuilt all the brakes, engine, gas tank, cab interior, box, all new glass, gauges, and every body panel.

AFAIK the problem with Pertronix is not inadequate performance, it's quality control. Some last a long time, some fail quickly. Unless you carry a spare (and are prepared to install it) you get stranded.
The GM is a known quality.

I think Panic nailed it!

Personally, all my tractors from the 30's, 40's, and 50's are still original, because it works. So is my 1960's truck.

The only electronic conversion I ever had done was to a very difficult to start pull start lawn-mower. And I didn't do it, the service person did.

After the conversion that thing started on half a pull! Until it didn't start, and it didn't start, and it didn't start, and it is now someone else's problem.

I don't remember what brand it was, and don't care. It worked, until it didn't work.

Lots of folks swear by the conversion, and I have no reason to doubt these folks have had good luck.

Being in the carburetor business; if I could have a dollar for every "carburetor problem" I have solved with points and condenser, I could buy Hawaii (well, close to it), and retire! We get the folks that DO have problems with the conversion, but don't know it. These folks swear AT the conversion, after the points and condenser fixes the problem.

For those in love with the electronic whiz-bangs, I would suggest one thing. If installing on a vehicle with a generator ALWAYS upgrade to an alternator!

Jon

I'm running a "123 Ignition" on several vehicles and I'm a happy camper, and I swear by it.
Especially the newer one where you can tailor your ignition and vacuum curves via Bluetooth on your phone - no need for a laptop and USB cable anymore.

Here in Europe there is a shop in the Netherlands that converts your stock dizzy, so it is absolute invisible, not sure there is such a service in the US, but it's not complicated. Every machine shop should be able to do this.
They have also complete distributors that drop just in, but nothing for stovebolts (for now).

It's super reliable and rock solid here since years, nothing like Pertronix - and it doesn't just replace your points.
They are very popular over here in Europe.

https://123ignitionusa.com/about/

From their info:

The most important features of the 123 electronic ignition system at a glance:
- The 123 is a complete electronic map ignition system.
- The entire ignition electronics are housed in a distributor housing, so you can replace your old distributor with a 123 without much effort. The appearance remains almost in its original condition.
- The 123 ignition system is available for almost all engines. If you cannot find your vehicle in the selection lists, we can manufacture a suitable ignition system.
- There are three different 123 ignition systems available. They only differ in the type of ignition curve adjustment:
1. 123 Ignition System with 16 fixed ignition curves to choose from.
2. 123 Tune: Freely programmable ignition curves via USB, two curves stored in the unit, can be changed while driving.
3. 123 Bluetooth: Ignition curves to be programmed via Bluetooth, 2 curves can be stored in the unit. In addition, extensive engine monitoring functions.

- The adjustment of the ignition timing is purely electronic and is therefore not subject to wear. Only the distributor finger and cap can still wear out and should be replaced every 30,000 kilometres.
- With the engine running, Tune and Bluetooth provide information about crankshaft speed, intake manifold vacuum, ignition timing, ignition system temperature and ignition coil current consumption via the interface. The associated software displays this data on a "virtual dashboard".
- The 123 automatically compensates for acceleration differences between individual cylinders and thus ensures smoother engine running. In motorsport, this technique is known as "spark balancing".
- The 4- and 6-cylinder variants of the 123 TUNE and Bluetooth are available for vehicles with "plus mass" as well as for vehicles with "minus mass". The 8-cylinder variants are only suitable for vehicles with negative ground.
- The 4- and 6-cylinder variants of the 123TUNE are suitable for vehicles with 6 volts as well as for vehicles with 12 volts on-board electrical system. The 8-cylinder variants can only be used for vehicles with 12 volt on-board electrical system.

Frank

Frank did you have your 261 distributor converted?

Frank, it sounds like you own the company.
Jerry

Hebels is a Dutch company that does that conversions of stock distributors.
123 Ignition is an other Dutch company that makes the actual ignition modules, and also provides complete bolt in distributors for mostly European cars.

I was using my Mallory (dual points) dizzy before on the 261 and I send that to Hebels to convert it - but you can have pretty much any distributor converted.

Here is what they do: 123 conversion

@Jerry - nah, they are from the Netherlands, I'm from Germany - no connections, just a happy customer and I really like those small backyard companies,
where the boss (who is also the inventor and knows EVERYTHING about the product) is answering patiently all my silly questions on the phone.

Frank

SawMill Otto is right on GM HEI however if you want to look stock just have to spend more. I use early (not computer)big HEI. Can make it fit your block with 4 inch grinder,hack saw,drill, get a bushing at your farm store. wow it's great to get some real ignition,once it's running make a spare keep it under the seat,know how to change it. Make sure your distributor is tall enough to clear the side of the engine,to me the look of it is modern like a mag,real flamethrower !!!

Frank,

1.) Since you are planning to use this distributor with your 3 speed overdrive transmission, send your transmission wiring diagram to Hebels and ask if there is a problem with grounding the output of the converted 123 distributor for about 1 second. If this is not allowed, ask Hebels if they have any ideas how this can be accomplished. The reason for grounding the ignition is to quickly make the engine "stumble", to momentarily take the driving force away, to allow the transmission to mechanically drop out of overdrive.

2.) It would be nice if you could provide pictures of your converted distributor before and after installation.

The ignition only needs to be disabled for a fraction of a second to unload the driveline. That can be done just as easily by momentarily interrupting the power to the ignition, not the ground, with a very simple circuit through a microswitch on the throttle linkage.

Jerry

My thoughts as well Jerry but you know how things go with expensive hi-tech gear.
You want to get the company's blessings so you don't end up violating warranty.
If the distributor failed, you know where the finger is pointed ... customer modification.

I'm amazed we managed to win WW II with low tech stuff like the B-17 my father flew. Maybe it had more to do with the testosterone level of the guys who manned that equipment so effectively?
LOL!
Jerry

Finally was able to take some pics.

Don't have a before pic, but it was just the typical after market Mallory dual dizzy.

Frank

Regarding that Pertronix - most of the time when they work a while, than they go funny and than they stop working at all,
the reason is - at least from what I know - ether the positive cable is connected to the coil, a rpm meter is hooked up, or someone left the ignition on.

With version II and III, at least that ignition problem is solved.