The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Weird paint results

So I decided to restore my original FRAM oil filter canister. I sanded away the ugly blue paint applied by the PO and made sure the surface was clean. I chose Ali’s Chalmers orange paint from Tractor Supply. I applied 2-3 coats and it went on nicely leaving a high gloss finish. After 48 hours it’s still tacky to the touch, but that’s not all. The finish now is best described as “crinkle.”
The outside temperature here in San Antonio this week has been about 100 F. Anyone have an idea what caused these two issues?

Thanks

Just to clarify, you stripped all the paint off to bare metal, then used an aerosol paint?

What did you clean the surface with prior to painting?

At first glance it looks like trapped solvents- not enough time between coats that were heavy? Also, the paint might be defective- does it have a manufacture date on it?

Yep, lots of paints have a recoat window. For Rustoleum rattle cans, it's within an hour or after 48 hours. Inside that window, especially shortly after an hour, you're just about guaranteed to have the second coat "lift" the first coat and show that wrinkle pattern.

[on edit] What? You don't like the AC blue and orange scheme?

Did you use a primer? If you used a self etching primer you can't top coat some paints directly on the self etching primer. You have to coat with a sandable/fillable primer on top of the self etching prior to applying an enamel finish. I made that mistake. I painted bare metal with self etching primer and then applied Rust-Oleum automotive enamel. It looked great at first and then started to crinkle.

Thanks guys for your comments. Dave and Kevin, I probably didn’t wait long enough between the second and third coat I suppose. I probably only waited 5—10 minutes between them. Could that have caused the crinkle? I never knew about a second coat lifting the first.

Dave, I didn’t use any primer.

To be honest with you I don’t feel like sanding down all of this orange paint and starting over, so I may just live with the crinkle finish. It doesn’t look terrible, and I’m not trying to win any trophies. 😂

You should have been OK with 5-10 minutes, as that wouldn't be enough time for the paint to form a skin on top, and the solvent in the second or third coat would mix with the previous coat. If the first coat isn't fully cured, but there's a skin on top, the subsequent coat's solvent will soften the skin, but the solvent in the previous coat will still try to evaporate thru the softened skin and cause wrinkles. Were there any recoat timeframe instructions on the paint? If so, they'd need to be followed closely.

That is exaggerated orange peel and Kevin is right...the recoat timing is very important. Actually what I've learned about rattle can paint which incorrectly and falsely calls itself "enamel" today is that you're much better letting the first coat dry several days longer than the maker says and then apply the second coat. Usually I'll set the part outside in the heat for a few days. Don't lightly sand before applying the second coat, though. You want the skin of the "enamel" first layer to remain intact. The second layer will work better and I'll explain why in a bit. When you scuff it, you guarantee the second coat will soften that first layer more than it should. Why? I explained this here before, but a few people will usually tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. And I've only been painting for ~60 years, so maybe they're right. The new enamel of today contains lacquer thinners...the same stuff that caused lacquer to no longer be used by body shops. It also may contain the same exact stuff used in paint stripper/remover...and that is for a purpose. If you don't believe me, look up the data sheets for the paint you're using. Enamel should only be thinned with mineral spirits, but you'll find a lot more in there and possibly no mineral spirits at all or mineral spirits modified with other solvents like toluene and now called something different. These cause the paint to "skin" rapidly (because some of them dry so fast) but then they dry internally much slower...some will take several days. Then when you apply a second coat the solvents naturally try to blend in with the first...even if it has become totally dry. But unlike genuine lacquer (which works very well under that scheme), you only cause the first layer to go all wonky if it hasn't totally dried, because unlike lacquer some of the things in the first coat won't play well with the 2nd coat. Now I mentioned some of the solvents in today's "enamel" are the same solvents used in paint remover/stripper. Why on earth would they put those in there? Because by doing so they've produced a paint that will "grab" what is beneath it...that is it will dissolve enough of the first layer so that the second layer can hold. But...they'll also cause that first layer to do almost exactly what it will do when you apply a coat of stripper...dissolve and wrinkle if it isn't completely dry.

Oh and one other point. There are 3 different "temperature" ranges for lacquer (and also urethane) thinners. Some makers call them cold, medium and hot, but some just show the ambient temperature ranges (or numeric codes) and a few use names like fast, medium and slow. The rattle can makers all use medium temp thinners. Usually those are geared for temperatures between 70 and 85 degrees. Fast is 60-70 and slow is any temp over 85. If you're painting using medium temp thinners in 100 degree weather, the game changes...a very noticeable amount to be honest. The heat causes the "top" solvents (the ones that flash off the fastest) to start drying before they ever hit the surface and that messes up the drying sequence the manufacturer had planned. What can you do about that? Find a really good body shop supplier (like English Color & Supply). Pick a color from their large catalogs and they'll make rattle cans for you. If you ask, they'll alter the formula to use the right solvent for that time of year. Good luck!

I honestly really like the crinkle look

If it was uniform, sure.
To each his own.

Jon, Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Yes Jon, many thanks for taking time to give us a detailed explanation. I had logically thought through things in my mind that something in the paint was drying at different times. I thought that the top layer was drying before the bottom layer had a chance to do so, and that the top layer was “pulling“ the paint resulting in the crinkle look. That’s exactly what you described. I don’t know if the top layer dries and then seals off the lower layers making it impossible for the moisture to evaporate, or if the lower layers of paint just simply dry much slower? Something about this paint ain’t what I’m used to in simple rattle can spray paint I’ve used all my life.

Thanks again Jon!

Anytime, Chuck. In the mid 60s, wrinkle paint was a fad. You probably remember. People used to paint dashboards in wrinkle paint to get a more glossy look with less reflection...or just a "cool" look. Some guys wanted steering wheels painted wrinkly to make them easier to grip. The problem was if you dribbled something like a milkshake on the paint it wasn't easy to clean. Mustard was impossible. A friend painted an entire Jeep in wrinkle finish, but I never liked it.

There were two ways to make plain old enamel "wrinkle". One was to thin enamel with a very slow drying reducer and spray that on first. Then before that had dried completely (just tack free), thin some enamel with a fast drying reducer and spray it over the top. Some of the more adventurous guys would use 2 colors...yellow first and red second was popular. The valleys of the wrinkles would be more orange/yellow looking while the high ridges would be red so the effect was flame-like. Or dark green first, tan second and then mist dark brown over it unevenly. You would get a textured camo look of sorts.

Then the other way was to get some tung oil (used commonly in wood finishing). Add some to enamel before you spray. The theory there was the oil would form an interior layer in the paint as the oil molecules would seek out other oil molecules once the paint was sprayed. The oil stayed in the middle because the top part of the paint dried first (enamel does that...dries from outside to inside). Then the lower layer would remain wet forming wrinkles as it finally dried. But...this didn't always work as hoped because there were no formulas and it wasn't uncommon to mix an enamel that took forever to dry and came out with a milky finish. Plus sometimes you'd get little tiny wrinkles and other times you'd get really large odd looking wrinkles that looked more like worm tracks in mud or like your paint had run strangely.

If you ever need to buy some enamel and spray it yourself, get a gizmo called a PreVal sprayer. It is a glass jar, marked for measuring with a pressurized canister that screws on to it. Then you add your paint, thinner, hardener (if needed) and spray it just like a rattle can. What's neat about this is you can use it where a compressor and spray gun might be overkill. I've painted many firewalls this way while the engine was out being rebuilt. You get to control the paint and thinner you use (plus the thinner/paint mix ratio) and aside from the pressurized canister it is reusable forever. The one I have was bought in 1978. You can get 2 on Amazon for about $12 and each one will spray 16 oz of paint...which as I said is enough to paint a firewall nicely. Or two running boards.

I had a big electrical junction box which I converted into a lockable gun cabinet. I painted it with several layers of brown paint without allowing it to cure between coats. It ended up with the most amazing crinkle paint job you would ever see. I loved it, It looked like an old weathered leather-bound book.

Another neat look...especially for equipment, heaters, filing cabinets, industrial shelves, etc was "hammered finish." We used this on equipment going to Vietnam. I think they mixed powdered isinglass and epoxy paint. I was working as a welder then, but I remember this looked just like normal paint when it was sprayed and when it left the oven it was a hammered look.

Jon, once again thanks for your detailed thoughts on my paint situation. I mentioned that I thought I would keep the crinkle paint look because I didn’t want to take the time and effort to strip and repaint the oil canister. I would say that it looks “perfect“ but for the two fingerprints I left behind when I tried to pick it up. Darn it! I tried sanding them sort of smooth and then shot a new coat of paint over them but they are still noticeable. From now on I will know to let any paint that I buy from Tractor Supply cure for at least a week before I touch it!

I think that crinkle coat looks great. You couldn't have done a better job if you were going for that effect.

We’ll thank you Otto! I guess I did sort of step in it and came out smelling like a rose.😂

I used Tractor Supply primer and the grey paint on my transmission. 2 coats of each, waited the right amount of time. Months later you can still push your fingernail into it???

It did not crinkle like yours did. I am going to through it in the truck and touch up where ever it has scrapped off and not look back. I was not impressed with the soft end result.

I don’t buy tractor supply rattle can paint anymore - for the same reason - it never cured and remained soft.

You have to use reducer and hardener with Tractor Supply paint if you want it to cure properly.