The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Explanation by purists

There is a fable about a king with a beautiful queen that was leaving to go on a quest so he had a chasity belt made for the queen and entrusted the key with his most faithful servant. As he was crossing the moat bridge leaving the castle his servant yelled down from the castle wall, "Hey the key doesn't fit".
You purists that click onto the Hipo Forum and then whine about originality can be plugged into roles in the above fable. My goal is to make sure every single AD pickup has a V8, disc brakes, 4 corner modern suspension, and power assist everything plus al the bells and whistles. You can spot me in the left lane with two fingers on the wheel and a-c blowing my hair. I DO NOT make comments on your 45mph creeping in the right lane and the sweat dripping on July days so how about some mutual respect? The world should be big enough for both of us.

[ My goal is to make sure every single AD pickup has a V8, disc brakes, 4 corner modern suspension, and power assist everything plus al the bells and whistles. You can spot me in the left lane with two fingers on the wheel and a-c blowing my hair. I DO NOT make comments on your 45mph creeping in the right lane and the sweat dripping on July days so how about some mutual respect? The world should be big enough for both of us.[/quote]

Here Here ....

Evan, I enjoy reading your interesting and informative posts. Some of my goals are different than yours. For example, I like the 6 but I suppose that one day the 6 will have to go as parts are getting more and more difficult to find.

I believe we have to stick together even if our goals differ. There is a loud and dangerous group of people out there who think that all old vehicles should be recycled. They want us in public transport, electric cars and/or bicycles. As a group, we are a strong force to fight to save the hobby. We need to keep the politicians believing that we carry a lot of votes.

Well shoot,
Even if you want to go all original, if you use reproduction parts you're going to run into the same problem of “it doesn't fit!”

🤟😉 🤟

I'm impartial. As long as they're on the road, I'm happy. I agree that, with all the world changes these days, out hobby and rides are in jeopardy.

I see Ron has an emoji scratching its head. The analogy is no matter how hard one tries to preserve something it just isn't going to always happen.

Ron should include that emoji in all of his posts.
That is why we love him so.

Evan,

I'm sorry if there are intolerant "purists" ruining your day. But an old saying comes to mind: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that everyone isn't out to get you."

Um, that was a joke. I would tell you my favorite Texan joke, but I'll keep it to myself. For now ...

In my 26 years of doing this web site, I've seen a fair number of folks come through here thinking that going all out with high performance modifications is their only option. And concomitant with that is the number of folks who have ripped a nice old truck apart with the intention of achieving your goal only to give up and leave a once pristine, original vehicle a collection of butchered parts -- which is no good for anyone.

Sometimes, what may come across as intolerance is merely a way of trying to educate these folks as to their actual options that sometimes involves very little modification to achieve 85 to 90 percent of your goal. e.g., you don't need a v-8 with an automatic tranny and a narrowed hipo rear end to go fast. You don't need power steering for good, solid control. You don't need disc brakes for good stopping power. A/C is probably a good thing for the deep south and south west. Here in the Mid Atlantic coast, I find 65 mph with the windows down and the cowl vent open to be just fine.

It is a matter of choice and personal preference.

The goal of Stovebolt.com is agnosticism -- to each their own. All I ask is that it is an informed choice. If, understanding all of the above, someone still wants to go all out toward living your dream, then we, as a group, will do everything we can to help them, even if it may not be what we would want to do with our own project.

Gord and Fox make the most important bottom line point to all of this though -- our hobby is under attack. We need to support each other by ensuring we send people to Congress this November who will help put this Country back on a path to energy independence, economic prosperity and National Security. Or else we run the risk of having sunk a lot of time, money and energy into driveway ornaments.

In the meantime, just consider that just because someone may not share your view or opinion doesn't make them your enemy. We're all here to help each other achieve their goals -- whatever they may be.

I welcome more discussion on this subject as long as it is positive and supportive, not self destructive.

The pursuit of happiness is, as always and hopefully will continue to be, an individual journey.

Happy Independence Day!

John

I like the "Sneaky Pete" modifications- - - - -The buzzword at a lot of dirt tracks where I ran was "Stock Appearing"- - - - -run whatever you can get away with, but make it look stock. Some oldtime tracks called that the "sportsman" class. Others just called it "cheating"! I like to stuff an extra 30 cubic inches or so into an original-looking engine. How about a 300 cubic inch "261" stovebolt engine with altered ratio rocker arms and hydraulic roller valve lifters? With a little dedicated tinkering, it can be made to look like a 216 at first glance.
Jerry

John,
The purists are absolutely welcome to police every other site on the Forum but if they read the preamble to the Hipo forum WHY DO THEY CLICK ON IT? I wish I had never made any comment on other sites but I have questioned why anyone uses a carburetor. I promise no comments on purity if others promise no comment on our Hipo site.

Since this seems to be open for discussion (and it shouldn’t) I’m going to throw in my 2 cents. First, please understand I enjoy every vehicle from 100 point restorations to full out Rat Rods. This particular forum was created for those who like to modify their trucks. It’s supposed to be a safe haven for discussions about hotrod modifications. Those who choose to post in this forum have made a choice and it’s their personal business why. It’s not our mission to talk them out of doing it. We have many members who are into the hotrod scene and can offer good advise and instructions on creating the best hotrod you can. So, if your a purist we have numerous forums for you to share your expertise, just stay in those forums and leave the HiPo Forum to those with a need for speed and eye candy.
For you hotrod guys, when offering advise it’s ok to state why you wouldn’t do something but then try to help the guy make his choice the best it can be. Yes, 2 carbs is not the best choice and Pertronix ignitions suck and headers don’t help Stovebolts gain gobs of horsepower but the guy has made his choice. Let’s help them instead of poo pooing on every modification they propose. Am I guilty of the above behavior, probably, but I’m going to try to be better.
Stepping down from the soapbox.

Evan -- Bottom line is that Martin is right. I'll have a chat with the moderator. Perf guys shouldn't be flamed at all, let alone in their own forum.

I was a carpenter in SoCal When I bought my 53 3100 in 1980. I drove my truck 2-3 hours a day for work for 9 years. I drove it from LA to northern Indiana and back 5 times. The last 5 years I lived in the desert. The truck was all completely stock. I'm over it. When I moved to Indiana in 1989 it was parked for 30 years. If I wasn't retromodding the truck it would still be parked, probably until it rotted in the ground like a lot of the trucks around here. To each his own. It's the journey. If I die before it's done the next guy has a good start.

Evan has a right to complain because I am a hypocrite and I like AD trucks in their original condition. My first car was a 39 Chevy sedan and I put in a 265 V8 with 3 speed OD, from a wrecked car, that I bought for $175. This was the quickest way to get my daily driver on the road with what little money I had. I remember being tickled because my mileage improved (19.5 mpg).

If Jay Leno took every vehicle in his collection and did the suggested modern upgrade, most in the world would gasp with horror. Why? Because these vehicles are the ones, that the world thinks, are worth more in their original condition. Well that is insulting. What about the equally as old Stovebolt truck? Why are these left out of the elite of originality? It's because they were common. Humans like bragging rights (hey, look at what I got) so if the classic piece of tin is common, upgrade it with latest fashionable components. The wise will also be aware that the upgrade may depreciate 50% in 20 years. My point is that none of the "original versus high performance" debate is logical. Logically we would only drive what we need for comfort, safety and cost efficiency. You know, a Subaru Outback. Big grin.

Unlike the king, Jay Leno is smart. He has eunuchs to guard his prized collection.

In the farmlands of northern Indiana AD's are far from rare. You see them sitting around barns next to the plows nobody uses anymore and in fence rows. Every backwoods junkyard has several. I have friends with beautiful original restored AD's that are mostly garage queens. Maybe take it in town on a Sunday. There's nothing wrong with that. I also have friends that have restomods that are daily drivers. I also know people with trailer queen show trucks. There is room for everyone in this hobby and I like them all. Pick your poison.

Hey hey hey, my "creatures" happen to be what I have on hand. Be it 6's, or 8's, or what ever.
I love'em all so carry on folks. I'm in your corner.

(At the moment) there is enough room on the planet for everyone. Why waste time arguing over the details.

John, your post above is spot on. The last two paragraphs of that should be a sticky on every forum.

The saying on here has always been, "It's your truck. Do what you want with it." I assume that still applies.

Both of my Bolts have had V-8's transplanted into them. One of them is anything but pretty. It was put in by a couple guys with a welder and a cutting torch. It was a farm truck, and they needed to get it back on the road. The guy's son-in-law had this engine on hand, and so they made it work. It will remain that way as long as I own it. After that, the next guy can change it back if he wishes, or leave it- whatever he wants .

As Mick said above--I also like them all.

Evan (coilover),

I want to first thank you for starting this thread.

When I discovered and then eventually joined the Stovebolt forum, I was super excited to find a group of people who really liked these old trucks. I felt safer about starting a project of my own knowing I had access to such a great knowledge base.

During the past 6 years, I have slowly collected the parts I need for my project. During that time, I spent many hours reading TONS of post on the Stovebolt in the hope of learning as much about these old trucks as I could. Well, I also got a chance to see first hand how people can be treated when things are not moving in a “purist” direction. Even here in the HiPo Shop.

Quite honestly, I started to feel the Stovebolt was not as safe of a place as I had hoped. My project is outside of the box just enough that I knew even here in the HiPo Shop section, I was going to take a fair amount of guff. I have seen many times when a moderator steps in to calm things down.

It’s not that my skin is too thin. It’s about valuing your own time. Taking photos, re-sizing said photos, and then doing a write-up that hopefully resembles something worth reading, takes a lot of time. Add to that time trying to defend yourself after sharing makes it᠁ exhausting. I’ve seen more attrition in the HiPo Shop then any other section of the forum. Too many people that share here learn very quickly, and just don’t come back.

I have always believed a mans time is actually worth something.

Do I still like this place? Of course I do. When you follow the unspoken rules, this is probably the most friendly and helpful community a person can find. I am constantly surprised by the generosity of this place. Will I ever be sharing my own build? Probably not.

David

I am sorry to hear that. The Hi-Po Shop is that place where you should feel safe, and purist (I’m on both sides of the fence) should keep their views to themselves. There are plenty of other sites on this forum for them to voice their views. Don’t let a few ruin it for the many. I for one love seeing other ‘bolters builds whether it be stock, highly modified or somewhere in between, and suggest starting a Project Journal. If you do, I for one would be following.

I have been on the receiving end of a project gone bad, check out "Project Death Trap" . That being said yes I have had my cheeks chapped here on the "Bolt" for doing a Hot Rod Truck and not sticking with the traditional 6. I'm not thin skinned(thank you David of stating that) but have questioned why I stayed with posting here on more than one occasion. I stayed because I liked the fellowship and enjoyed following other projects. I feel that I have made some friends and I hope no enemies here.

It's true that the Hipo forum is set aside as the place that we who would change our Trucks and choose to go in different directions can express those ideas. Often those ideas are met with some push back, I read the responses and try to take in what is being said, at the end of the day it is as we say "MY Truck" . I have a picture in my head of what the end goal is and how I want the truck to be, my plan has changed and adapted on more than one instance largely due to something I have read or seen here on the "BOLT". We are all here because of a common interests in old trucks, I can appreciate the work and attention to detail a purist puts into the project just as I can the guy who builds a Rat Rod.

If we have common ground with the truck than don't we all speak the same language? David I too am sorry that you feel that way.

Thinking about what Evan's clients likely require, I understand exactly why his stance for building the trucks the way he does.
I could not imagine trying to talk a client, whose only strength is deep pockets, into building him a '50 3100 to the condition of as-built in 1950. I imagine that most of his clients couldn't even drive it, let alone maintain it.
It takes a special type of person to enjoy one of these old trucks in as-built condition. If something goes wrong on a trip, you will likely not find anyone knowledgeable in how to fix it, requiring you to have all of the knowledge to fix it yourself. While I do thoroughly enjoy everything about them, I realistically understand that I am "special" to the point of necessitating being driven to school in a short bus.
I also thoroughly enjoy my restomod truck with all the bells and whistles, which by the way, a sane person could also properly put me in the short bus category.
To sum it up, I feel strongly both ways.

Believe it or not we also do high point restorations that have garnered many awards/trophies. Only two "restos" in the shop right now out of a 17 car capacity; a 52 Hudson Hornet and a 67 Firebird that is leaving with the original 326 engine even though I walked around the shop screaming "455". Owner has to be sick but, he IS THE OWNER.

This is a good Forum. Each and every person should build the truck he or she wants and we should respect his decision.
If you watched the video about the Mercury he built the baddest Merc around but missed the details. The point “ Don’t drive it if it’s not safe” throttle sticking at 2200 rpm’s and questionable brakes. Which brings me to my point, the chassis. It is the heart and soul of your ride. Are you willing to trust you life and the lives of the people around you to questionable welds or brakes that cannot handle the horsepower. Do your homework. Make the truck what you want. A hot rod is a hot rod. No rule other than be safe. If you don’t feel qualified to do the work find a qualified person to do it for you.
One of the first things you need to determine how you are going to use the truck. Do you want a street truck or a show truck to take shows? That Merc was a show car. No way he could drive it daily. Blower sticking up thru the hood and I’m huge tires out back. Then plan your truck and stick to your plan. There is room for all of us. Whether you build a restored truck, a restomod, hot rod or show all require a strong foundation. BE SAFE.

Seems I can’t go anywhere or do anything these days without being told to BE SAFE!

That is an interesting comment. In 2019, I was attending the Trifive Nationals in Kentucky. Cars, Vettes and Trucks (including big trucks) all in attendance. One of the participants had a tire blow out on him in a vintage 55 chevy car on his way back to his hotel after one of the days at the show. The car was apparently rolling on tires that were 8 years old or older. The resulting accident was bad and the owner lost his life as a result. The mantra to be safe is a good one because there are far too many people in this hobby who are not and think nothing of driving an unsafe vintage vehicle or even marginally unsafe vintage vehicle on the road. Its pretty offensive, to me at least, because taking such a chance not only endangers the driver and his passangers, but also others on the road. A tragedy we do not necessarily need. So I have no issue with the constant refrane of "BE SAFE" because I think its important to be safe with these old vehicles.

OK, so I am off my soapbox now, lol.

Yep two thumbs up! I like your soap box.

This past weekend I attended what the host called a "Car Party". Just a group of like minded car guys talking about old times, the history and labor put into our vehicles and future plans for them. In attendance was my stock 54 Stovebolt, a 1963 F100 PU, a 1980 street/strip Camaro, a 1979 Z28 Camaro stock, a 72 GMC step side PU, an 84 El Camino, 2023 Corvette, a 1968 GTO and a 1963 Corvette. Everyone has their own taste and you will never find two vehicles that have restored/revived the same way. I didn't look at any of the other guys in attendance and think why would they want that? I wanted everyone of the vehicles that was there.

dgrinnin About 125 miles north of you,our local rod scene is about the same.We happen to have an antique Dog n Suds,still has an original working neon sign where we "cruise-in". It's a mix of trailer queens on down to rat rods. We all have a good time looking things over.One of our best meets will be on the banks of the wabash river at Hutsonville Il. Rods come from In. Pals we know over there,they also put stuff on we attend. So will fire-up my 51-6400 pickup on propane with HEI,alternator,98 inch wheelbase,plenty of brakes,12 volt system,45 inch bed,4 link (built by me) all of it by me really !! Head in there !!

coilover Well said,I have questioned why anyone would use a liquid using carburetor,a point using distributor,a remote regulator using generator,or a fuel pump using,vapor locking fuel system. I don't aim to fight those at 5 A.M. I want to fire-up and go every day !! People who like to fight that stuff...go for it !! Also don't care to battle sludge from gasoline burning !!

᠁ All of which fall under the broad heading of “To Each His Own”.

The opportunity to have a carburetor, points , plugs and condenser is one of the reasons I go through all the trouble of owning and managing a hot rod.

tut's59 Have vented enough on the forum about hi-po stuff,let's cruise,love to see the marker lights,hear a smooth idleing,running 235, feel a good truck 4-speed,feel the 2-speed axle shift,hang out on the west coast mirror on a country black-top. Doesn't get much better than that !!

Agree !! Age 68 is not even close to too old,I love to hear the 540 Merlin hit 8000 RPM and think I am on the crew that has kept that alive for 11 seasons of truck pulling. Is a county fair (local) outfit !! Just got some new blueprint work done,along with fresh valve springs, is 79 Chevy.

After finally driving my almost finished restoration down the road, I gotta say, I tend to agree with Coilover- I wanted to keep things as original (and simple $) as possible and so I kept my solid front axle. From the very beginning of my restoration, my primary focus was to build a truck that I could drive regularly, not just on sunny Sundays᠁.it was always destined to be a driver (albeit a shiny driver). After putting some miles on it driving over 45 mph, I now understand the desire to swap out the front suspension, because while it is cool looking, original, and classy, it is truly fatiguing to drive down the road at any speed over 40 mph for any length of time. Honestly, I am worried about getting pulled over on the freeway for suspected DUI..! And everything in my chassis is new or correctly overhauled, adjusted properly, and aligned. I ain’t taking this one apart again᠁.but a lesson has been learned: if it’s not going to be a garage/show queen, seriously consider going with a modern front end.

I was, however, somewhat irked by Coilover’s original post wherein he claims to still have hair

coilover Hammer em !!!

Norcal Dave Now watch it on that hair LOL Have to agree with coilover on so much. We are all either purist or rodder !! As a rodder I swear by aluminum after market advanced products...like they use in the HIPO forum,Fenton forever !!

Just curious what you have for tires. If you're running original style bias, they are known to follow the grooves of the road. If so, switching to radials might be the ticket.

John

If you've got to fight the steering on a straight axle setup, you need to find somebody who understands wheel alignment.
Jerry

My one ton tracks beautifully with new components and new radials. Clean, straight, one hand (two fingers on the wheel). When people ride with me they say they are surprised. The wheel isn’t “tight” like a new Toyota, and I think that is to be expected. Looking down at a phone while driving these old girls is even more endangering because they aren’t as “touchy” on the steering wheel. Drive with focus and you’ll stay road true (if your components are good and aligned 😎).

That being said, yes, it is tiring to drive, mostly because of the road noise at 60 mph. I insulated it quite well with dynamat and bubble insulation, but it still isn’t a 2020 truck. I could insulate it more I guess.

I agree with both viewpoints here.

I have 215 wide radials front and rear.

Yes Jerry, I think that my alignment might be partially to blame!