The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Alternat VIN # Locations

Hey guys have a heck of a time locating the vin on my 63 C-50 the tag is not present in the upper door jamb. I know its usually stamped somewhere in the fram or engine compartment but I do not know where for this particular year truck.

Anybody know where?

Thanks

Usually it is somewhere in the drivers side door frame. The tag is 3.25 inches long, and if it has been removed there will be two holes almost 3 inches apart. 66's are at the very top, 64-65 are upper door frame (on the A-pillar). Crew cabs have it in the rear drivers side door frame sometimes. If this doesn't help, the VIN verification departments of the State Police have diagrams where EVERY VIN is located on every vehicle type in the USA.

The one on the frame doesn't have the first few digits on it usually. It is located next to the driver's side motor mount. Use a wire brush to clean it off.

I gave slightly incorrect information in the last post, upon review. The 65-66 are in the upper top, the 64 is in the upper rear and the 60-63 are in the upper front.

ok its not in any of those places so i will look on the frame I guess

And, NO pre-1970 U.S. vehicle has a VIN number...

Prior to the VIN system, we just used "serial numbers"....

It's worth making the distinction...

When someone in a motor vehicle administration hears "VIN Number", they start expecting the long alpha-numeric code that's found on the plate rivetted to the dashboard, at the lower-left of the windshield....it don't exist on pre-1970 vehicles. Period.

Good luck with your search, Magilla...

Hope you get it squared-away !

thanks for the vin vs. serial # distinction maybe that will help me at my dmv

Frank, you're spreading a myth - all vehicles have always had a Vehicle Identification Number, just not the elaborate things they have now, and if any DMV person is stupid enuff to dispute your VIN because it isn't 35 characters long, they should be laughed at and educated, not bowed down to

the VIN on our old trucks consists of information that identifies the year, model, and production sequence #, [which is the actual 'serial number'], and so are unique to the vehicle - it will be found on your title listed as the VIN, not the 'serial number'

that won't help you at the DMV, Magilla - only thing you can do is find a number on the vehicle that matches the one on the title - if you don't have a title you're in a whole different ball game

Bill

Bill, I think you're just arguing semantics. According to most research I have done, auto manufacturers varied in when they began applying serial numbers to their vehicles and vehicle parts. Different jurisdications would use different numbers from vehicles (engine numbers, serial numbers, etc) on titles and registrations prior to the standardization of the VIN. An international standard for a VIN as we know it was not established until 1977 (ISO Standard 3779) and it wasn't until the early 80s that the US DOT began requiring that the ISO standard, 17 character VIN be on all vehicles. It was only after that that all US jurisdictions began requiring the standard, 17 character VIN on titles.

Bill...yes, vehicles had a unique identifier pre-'81. However the capitalized "Vehicle Identification Number" is a specific animal - the standardized 17 character thing we've all grown to know so well in the past 25 years. Try doing a CarFax search pre-'81, you'll see what I mean.

yes it's semantics, but it wasn't me that said our ol trucks don't have VIN numbers and it's "worth making the distinction" - and the DMV doesn't say it either, because in fact it isn't true! and Frank's statement that "there were NO VIN numbers prior to 1970" and that "we just used "serial numbers"" is incorrect! the 'serial number' is one part of the VIN wether it included the engine # or not

just because they don't match a standard that was established 20-30 years after they were built doesn't mean they don't have one - I've got titles that have the 12 character codes of my trucks listed as the VIN, and pre-80's it was still called a Vehicle Identification Number - looking in the file I see a title from the Arizona Highway Department - Jun 1969 - 1955 International Panel Truck - has a box for "VEHICLE ID. NO." [isn't that VIN?] - R112264628 - it was a 1/2T, model 112 [panel], serial#264628, regardless if that was the engine or body number

for a 57 panel I've got one title that says it's 'body style' is "Panel", a more recent one that says "Van" because they don't have a numbered catagory in the computer for 'panel' any more - is my panel suddenly a van? we can't call'em panel's anymore? I HATE it when folks call'em 'vans'!

when the DMV asks for the VIN number, try sayin "oh these ol things don't have a VIN"

the reason I brought it up in the first place is I've seen too many posts in response to a new guys query about titles and VIN's that "these old trucks don't have VIN's" and that just is NOT correct!! make the distinction of the type of VIN they have if you prefer, but don't say they have no VIN and the 'serial number' is something it's not - a serial number is the production sequence# of that particular body, chassis or engine, the VIN# identifies the exact truck - and that's what "Numbers Matching" is all about

Bill

wow did i open a can of worms up!!!

this is my vin as I understand and how it appers on my bill of sale
h- heavy
3- 1963
c- conventional cab
51- 1 1/2 ton truck
9- flatbed/stake bed (mine is actually a dump)
B- baltimpore plant
103587- Serial # of truck

now I have tried to verify this info thru my 63 shop manual and looking at the vin on the truck. The shop manual agrees with me (correct anything that is wrong please) but locating the VIN on the truck is the next step. Unfortunately I have been laid up from a Kick from a friends English Shire that bruised my ribs - badly.

I will be looking on the truck over the next few days, the reason I need to verify the vin is so I can have a police oficer verfy the vin on a DMV form that will generate a new title for me.

Thanks for all the info, I will post what I find or don't find
Merry Christmas

ouch! gotta hate them horses some days!
I don't have the 60's code's, but they should be around someplace here in the ether - sounds right to me tho

no can-o-worms, you're doing it exactly right - if there's nothing to be found on the frame [previous series was on top of drivers side frame rail by steering box] you'll just hafta do what the DMV requires - up here they will 'generate' a govment number if you can prove ownership

Bill

yeah they will generate a new title but MA tends to be tough sometimes. I am going to try to usa a contact or 2 to smooth the process along. I will let you guys know


Matt

I recently purchased a 1937 Chevy Pickup but the title says 1936. The VIN# SOS81493ILL, does this number represent when truck was built, etc etc? HELP

doesn\'t sound like a factory number - maybe a DMV assigned number? never heard of a VIN that ended in letters, as the final part of the number was always the production sequence number - or maybe an engine #?

Bill

I spoke witha friend and he said that if my motor was original which I beleive it is, the 1963 version of a VIN could be found on the engine block by the water pump. I will investigate tomorrow as my ribs are feeling a bit better let you know what is actually on the truck

quote:
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Frank, you're spreading a myth - all vehicles have always had a Vehicle Identification Number,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong.

According to the Texas Motor Vehicle Title Manual , " On 1955 and prior model motor vehicles the motor number is the principal means of identification, except Ford products manufactured since March 31, 1932."

Also, " Beginning with the 1956 model motor vehicles, the serial number of the body or frame is used as the principal means of identification and shall be known as the "vehicle identification number". The words "permanent identification number" and "serial number" are sometimes used to refer to the official vehicle identification number."

Notice there is nothing capitalized and no mention of a VIN.

Then it goes on to say, " Effective with 1981-year model vehicles, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Department of Transportation, requires manufacturers selling vehicles in the United States to produce the vehicles with a 17-character vehicle identification number (VIN). This standard establishes a fixed VIN format with unique manufacturer identifiers and applies to all passenger cars, multi-purpose vehicles, trucks, buses, incomplete vehicles, and motorcycles. " (Note: all bold text is bold in original document.)

This tells me there was no VIN before 1981. There were vehicle identification numbers which varied from year to year and manufacturer to manufacturer but VIN was established by a government agency effective 1981. And it is true all modern issue titles have a space for "VIN" but that does not make an old serial number a VIN. It is quite simply the vehicle identification number of the old vehicle.

talk about 'semantics', Cletis! actually you've shown me to be Right - you're ignoring this part: "Beginning with the 1956 model motor vehicles, the serial number of the body or frame is used as the principal means of identification and shall be known as the "vehicle identification number". The words "permanent identification number" and "serial number" are sometimes used to refer to the official vehicle identification number."

regardless of capitalization or abbreviation conventions, what I'm talking about is what happens on this site, not federal law, and we don't deal w/ 81 or newer vehicles, nor exclusively w/ Texas titles - as I pointed out, AZ was printing title forms before 69 that specifically listed "Vehicle Id No's"

there has always been a "Vehicle Identification Number" given by the mfgr to identify the specific vehicle, abbreviate it anyway you want - there has been different ways the vehicle/body/engine numbers have been used by various state DMV's, but when someone comes on here and asks about problems with their VIN, the answer is never "these ol trucks didn't have VIN's" or "there was no such thing as a VIN back then"

and I'll continue to object to that answer when it occurs, unless you make it "there's no VIN, just a vin"

Magilla - I doubt engine numbers were used on titles anywhere as late as 63, that convention was mostly pre-1950's everywhere, but the engine number will identify the year of the engine

Bill

I wasn't implying the engine # could be used for title purposes but rather the original engine supposedly would have the matching vin from the door jamb. I do not know if it will, I doubt it it was just another place I was told to possibly look.

Man did I open a can here, I will know more tomorrow hopefully!

Magilla,

It doesn't help that some states, in some years, titled vehicles based on the engine number...which is all fine & dandy until someby swaps the engine to get a few more years out of an old jalopy...

In the case of vehicles like the Model T Ford, the only ID number IS the engine number...

Red 58, I think I hear where you're coming from...yes all legit factory-produced vehicles do have a "vehicle identification number" (note all lower case)...but the VIN system was/is a specific "unified" ID system that began to be applied in the US beginning with the 1970 model year (according to my 1963-'70 Chiltons shop book).

Pre -1970 US cars & trucks do not have a VIN #; they may have what we could call a vin #...yes, it is fine semantic distinction...

There was similar attempt to unify the vehicle ID matter around 1929-1930: the Fedco system...Chrysler Corporation products of the '29-'30 period used this, as did a few other makers...the id plate with the Fedco number was affixed to the center of the dash board, and was an alpha-numberic code...it didn't catch on.


Magilla's trying to play by the rules - I hope he's successful !

As for "stupid title clerks"...I hope there's a special circle in Hell for them...it seems that there is an inverse proportion of attitude to knowledge there...

Hey Frank,

I would revise Dante's Inferno if I could include all the dmv clerks in it. It would be something like sitting on a cold wood bench waiting an eternity for your number to a better level of hell or purgatory and being told you don't have the right paperwork so go get it and take another # ETC ETC ETC......LOL

Still Looking for the darn alternate VIN,

The ribs are feeling better and the weather is warm so i started poking around the ol' girl again and seem to have come up empty?

I will keep looking on the frame rail drivers side motor mount, is it on the top, side, inside etc? Maybe it was taken off ?

any more suggestions?

anyone from delaware thats were the truck originally came from, I have the old Plate but thanks to BIn Laden and the rest of his idiots the DMV clerks can't even tell you there name.

Y'all can't see me know buty I am dancing a JIG and I am not even Irish. The Vin is wher itwas supposed to be all along, I screwed up or rather overlooked it for 3 reasons drivers door does not open easily, really big wasps nest and way to many coats of cheap heavy paint.

I started poking and scraping and there she was more hidden by the paint than anything else but its scrathced off and it matches my bill of sale so hi ho hi ho its off to get a title I go.

And yes I already kicked my self for being so darn stupid.

Thanks for all the help