The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline 1950 chev truck 3100 tapered roller bearings

Do you need the original felt seal and inner dust cover and all the new tapered roller bearings and seals. When I use the original inner dust cover and felt seal it seems too tight to get calliper and brake pads in.

shouldn't that dust shield go on first and then the seal

You migt want to test fit that bearing assembly and dust shield a few times /a few ways dry, bearing without seal/with seal/without shield/with shield.
To directly answer your question, the original felt seal gets tossed, dust shield maybe….1 seal that fits in the back of the hub holding the bearing in is the only grease seal.
Some roller kits that shield will rub, other kits its fine, stock it fit behind the original bearing race so check to see it "center up" as it does with stock roller bearing race, the slight bulge in the shield (which helps it center up) can interfere with the seal as the seal/bearings/hub slide on and make up snug (like the CPP kit where the inner race is integral to the inner bearing, no race to slide on first).
I see you have disc's, Which kit/hubs?

chuck

When I did the disc conversion with tapered bearings on my 59' I left the dust shield and felt seal out. The setup should be the same for your 50'.

Thanks Chuck. I have the POL Disc Brake Concersion Kit and I have the stock Hub. I will try again this weekend fitting it again. I know without the seal and dust cover it works as suggested by Craig, but I want to try ome more time to see if it will work with the dust cover maybe something got mis- aligned. My other option is to shim the bracket as I seem to have plenty of space on the inside brake pad just not on the outside. I do have 16 inch rims so hopefully it will work.

Rick: Did you understand DaveV's comment above? I agree with him that the dust shield should go on the spindle first. The grease seal should be tapped into the hub after the inner bearing is installed in the hub. Your picture has the grease seal on the spindle, followed by the dust shield, then the hub.

Thanks Bill and no I did not understand DaveVs comment but now I think I do. I put the dust seal on the spindle first and then place the felt seal on the spindle followed by the hub

I will give it a go and then post the outcome

We’ll try as I might no luck with the dust cover alone or just felt seal either way it will not work. I phone Performance Online and was told they are not required so that’s the way I will go.

You could probably get away without the dust cover, but I'd worry about not having the felt seal. I have always installed them into the back of the rotor before I slipped the rotor onto the spindle.

You need a inner bearing seal to keep the grease in the hub. A seal shall be installed/set into the hub, it holds the bearing in the hub during assembly, ultimately keeping grease in the bearing and not flung outward onto the brakes.
How does your inner bearing slide onto/fit on the stub axel"?
Is it direct fit or is there an inner race that goes on first?
Does the /is there a seal that you lightly hammer into the back of the hub after the greased up bearing is installed?

There is a inner seal at the back of the bearing, but it is not the felt seal.

You can see on the original picture I posted there is a grease seal/race on the outside of the hub. The felt seal fits over this but then the caliper will not fit

Here is a pictured installed with calipers on.

It looks like you need a spacer to push that bearing into the hub so the grease seal can be installed, and for the seal to ride on. It's not going to work like that with the bearing hanging out there in the open. Are you sure your caliper brackets are installed correctly? Maybe they're pushing the calipers too far outboard.

Kevin you could be cortrect. I dug up a picture of the original front brake and it shows the dust cover and either the felt seal in front of it or some sort of spacer. I will look into my old parts to seee if I can find something that resembles a spacer.

The spacer in your original eqpt photo is also the inner race for the ball style bearing, it pushes back on & holds the dust shield centered.
That is why it is maybe yes/maybe no if you can use the dust shield with the roller kits. The dust shield did not fit well with my CCP kit.
Did the inner race get removed/ replaced with the race from the new kit? Is it fully seated into the hub? As stated by Kevin That bearing should be well inside the hub for the seal to fit.

Chuck

Here is the picture of the hub and outer race seal which is nearly flush with the top of the hub

I did not use the spacer from the original

Why all the grease on the outside of the seal? They should just have a thin wipe of grease on the sealing surface, but none on the back side of the seal. Was that the bearing I was seeing in you earlier picture? I assume you have the bearing installed inside the hub before the seal was pressed into place.

I am doing the 6 lug conversion on my 46. Got my kit from CPP. The link is for the instruction sheet, hope it is of some use to you.

https://www.classicperform.com/Instructions/PDF/4759DBK-6.pdf

The inner race of the inner bearing in the hub (with grease seal installed) should butt up against the machined surface of the spindle.

Here is what I'd do.

Take the caliper off its bracket. Leave the bracket mounted to the steering knuckle.

Remove the rotor from the hub.

Mount bearings and seal into the hub.

Mount the hub onto the spindle.

Put the outer washer and nut onto the spindle. Snug the nut down, then back it off 1/2 turn.

Does everything look and turn right?

If not, find out why. This should work njo matter what.

If OK so far, mount the rotor on the hub.

Now try to to mount the empty (no pads) caliper on the bracket.

If it won't go on or the rotor won't center in the caliper make sure you have the proper bracket on the proper steering knuckle. The brackets are typically mirror inages of each other. They will bolt onto the wrong-side knuckle, but the caliper will not be properly aligned with the rotor. Ask me how I know.

Kevin yes the wheel bearing is installed in the hub. I will remove all the excessive grease and put a thin layer on. Maybe will save a
Little tolerance room.

Thank you bigedpa for the instructions as pol and Cpp kit looks the same. I installed the the tapered bearing into hub without trying on the spindle or cleaning the spindle with 180 grit emery cloth. Nothing in their instructions mention the dust shield or felt seal though

Thanks Bill while I am at it I will try it your way as well. Where it becomes a problem is when I try adding the pads. No problem with rear pad but becomes a problem with the front pad

The grease seal shouldn't have anything to do with how the hub mounts to the spindle. Leave it out of the equation until you get everything properly aligned.

Just as a side note which may or may not be relevant,
on my CPP roller bearing kit the inner bearing race is fixed/non removable part of the roller bearing, it has a extended shelf machined on it that the seal rides on. My inner bearing would not slide on the polished clean stub axel (was ever so slightly too tight to slide on the axel stubs). As I test fit it all when dry/greaseless I taped off the bearing rollers and used a brake cylinder hone inside the bearing race to get each side to fit “just so”. (short bursts and kept checking to it until just slid on lightly oiled axel only when perfectly aligned).

Bill if I leave the dust shield and felt seal out of the equation everything fits. I am trying to get them into the equation but no luck. I think taking all of the tapered bearings out of the hub and seeing how far the inner bearing goes onto the spindle sounds most promising and if the bearing doesnt go all the way to hub then I will try the emery cloth or try what Hank custodian did

Is it the right grease seal? If I remember correctly (I usually can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning) the seal is a National 6064. At least it is for '52 thru '59.

Yes the seal in it came with the tapered bearing kit. But I knicked it a bit so ordered the replacement which is the box sittng on the picture and I have not yet tried

As was said by others, cleanliness is everything… there should be no grease outside the seal that presses into the hub, centrifical force will throw it on your braking surfaces, it also hides what is going on in your photos. If you installed the bearings in the hub and tapped the seal into the back of the hub clean off all grease, there are no other parts needed or wanted going onto the axel.

Question for Rick:

Take all parts off of the spindle. Then try to slip the grease seal onto the surface shown below. Can you?

Thanks Bill

Yes it will be going back to drawing board and I will clean everything so no excessive grease. I will remove everthing from spindle, insrt dust shield followed by felt seal. Then degrease back of the hub outter race seal and try again, and I will even take pictures this time in sequence to see if outcome is any different

When you have the seal pressed into the hub I believe it will fit best without the dust shield and felt seal you keep referring to.

HOWEVER: before putting the seal into the back of the hub you want to go step by step, checking as you go

1-try sliding the inner bearing by itself onto the Axel to check the fit, if not, stop, figure out why and how to adjust fitment
2-remove the bearing from the axel
3-try then sliding the seal onto the axel just to see it fits over it then remove it
4-if the bearing fit acceptably from step 1, then test install the bearing in the hub WITHOUT grease and WITHOUT seal, install the hub and check the fit, if that fits and lines up how you like it go to the next step, if not it should, stop and figure out why and correct it
Next step is grease up the bearing, install &set the seal into the hub to hold the bearing in, clean all grease off outside of seal, and install the hub,
5-install the outer bearing/washer/nut, torque, back it off, torque to spec, install cotter pin, you should be done…..

I'm confused (happens a lot). This thread has used the words "grease seal" and "felt seal". I believe that the are one and the same. You're not trying to put two seals on one spindle are you Rick?

I have concluded it will not work . It seems just the width of the dust shield for me won’t work . In pictures you can see that in the end the bearing in the hub with the grease seal onto the bare spindle is all I can do.However the grease seal goes onto the spindle perfectly and in one picture , the last one you can see from the back everything seems sealed so hope all works out in the end.

In picture 5, is the bearing inner race contacting the flat machined surface of the spindle? If so, you should be good to go.

Thanks Bill yes it is so fingers crossed

That pic #4 is exactly the same as the CPP bearing system I have on my 46 w huck brakes, the seal rides on the bearing race, clean off All the grease on the outside of that seal and don’t use dust shield or anything else. Good to go
FIY: spare seal available from Speedway Motors or CPP directly