I looks like rebuilding your hinges should be on your to-do list as well. That's a lot of clearance between the pin and the hinge body. These hinges typically seize up where the pin goes thru the arm and start rotating the pin in the housing, hogging out the hole that's supposed to be a tight fit there.
Keep picking away at it.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I hadn't really looked at the hinges yet. I figured I'd blast them sometime this winter. I've found that the humidity is too much here in VA to do much blasting in the summer. So I've got a box full of small items to blast now that it's getting colder (and drier). I recall reading a thread about hinge repair and it being a difficult task. I'll have to search for that thread and reread it in preparation. Thanks for the encouragement!
It's been a while, so I thought I'd provide a quick update. I've been hard at it in the garage, paying a penance for something, although I do not know what. I decided to take a "quick" break from the sheet metal work and work on the passenger side lower door hinge. I thought it would be a good change of pace...you know, break things up a bit and stay fresh. To my self defense, the tech tip made it sound like it wasn't that difficult of a job. I'm calling that impression bogus right now. What a miserable job that was and I'm only done with the disassembly! The tech tip states that the pins are not hardened steel. I disagree. The hacksaw would hardly scratch it, so I moved onto the Dremel with the thinnest cut off wheel, which did fit between the hinge parts. Once the pin was cut, it was still a challenge to get the hinge parts separated. Then, the "fun" began....
I ground off the head of the pin and attempted to use a punch to dislodge the top part of the pin from the hinge. Ended up calling "no joy" on that. Decided to drill it out a little and see if I could relieve some of the pressure on the pin. Came back to the punch and wham, out falls the pin...with the spacer still attached. Beauty. Set the spacer on the vice, hit the pin with the punch and out it fell. You've got to be kidding me. It couldn't fall out with the spacer attached to the hinge??? Nope. Guess I'll be welding that back on....
Onto the arm that attaches the door and removing that piece of the pin. Long story short: punch doesn't work, drill bit breaks off in the pin, destroy multiple drill bits trying to dislodge the broken bit, days go by. Finally, the tiny piece of drill bit gets dislodged and I can actually work on drilling out the remainder of the pin. OY!
Where I'm at now: ordered a replacement pin. You read that right, one pin. I'm never doing that again. Ever. Don't care about the shape of the other hinges. One and done. While waiting on delivery of the pin, I'll break out the sandblaster and clean up the hinge parts. Drill out the parts to the final, oversize dimension. Then weld the spacer back in place. Then prime and paint. Then reassemble the hinge. Lesson learned. At least the hinge looks to be rebuildable. I'd hate to have to replace it with a re-pop. They are expensive!
I'll add pics when i'm done with the rebuild. Without a doubt, this was the most unpleasant task that I've attempted while working on my truck. Buyer beware! I know some of you are thinking that I'm a poor machinist. In reality, I'm no machinist at all. That likely played a role in my troubles. Is what it is. Now, off to the garage to clean up the mess. There are metal shavings everywhere and lots of cutting oil to clean up....
One last thought. My above rant doesn't mean anything other than I wasn't up to the task at hand. The above is the story of a noob struggling. In my opening post, I committed to being brutally honest and this was posted in that spirit. I'll keep trying. Hopefully, you'll keep reading and responding. Please keep the comments, suggestions and advice coming. I do appreciate them all.
Got some garage time today and continued on with the rebuild of the passenger side lower hinge. My replacement hinge pin arrived and the included instructions detailed using an 11/32 inch drill bit to enlarge the openings that the pin sits in. This means both top and bottom of the hinge bracket and the arm that swings. Before I could do that, I had to weld the spacer back onto the bracket. I cleaned off the rust from both the spacer and bracket. Then, using a 1/4 inch nut and bolt, I held the spacer in place and tacked it to the bracket. Once that was done, I could use the larger drill bit and enlarge all of the openings. I intentionally went very slowly, using lots of oil and frequently removing the metal shavings. Probably overkill, but the entire process was uneventful. A test fit of the new pin showed that it would be a very tight fit. So, I used a rat tail file and gently worked the openings. I also used a flat file and removed a few burrs. The pin now fits nicely. Snug, but not too tight. Next up is to dig out my blast cabinet and get it moved into the garage. Then I'll blast the parts and prime and paint them.
Pics attached below showing what I described above. I'll also apologize for the emotions in the last post. It was an emotional time.... Thanks for reading!
All in all, a good day in the garage today. I finished the rebuild of the passenger side lower door hinge today. Over the past couple of days, I had done the media blasting, priming and painting, so today was just an assembling day. Below are pics of the individual parts and then two views of the assembled part. When I'm closer to putting the hinge back on the truck, I'll trim the pin. It was good to see the arm pivoting around the new pin and the pin not moving. I did add grease to both the new pin and the inside of the arm, prior to assembly.
In addition to doing the assembly of the hinge, I spent some time removing the passenger side floor sheet metal, doing one last adjustment/cleaning. I made sure that all of the paint was removed from around every place that I plan to weld. Then...I went for it! I made the first, no kidding welds. I tacked the passenger side rocker panel to the original part of the floor pan that isn't being replaced. Some of the welds are good, some are ok and a pair were bad. Nothing is so bad that it can't be repaired. Pretty sure I'll take it!
I'm going to order some panel bond. While I wait for that to arrive, I'll spend some time filling in those old spot weld locations and in the process complete the welding of the rocker panel to the rear of the floor pan. Once that is done and the welds dressed, I'll post a pic. Once the panel bond arrives, I'll set about installing the front passenger side floor pan replacement.
Quick update: spent some time trying to fill in the holes left by drilling out the spot welds that held the old rocker panel to the floor. Last post had a pic of the tack welds that were holding the rocker panel in place. You can see from the attached pic that I had some success in further solidifying the attachment of the rocker panel to the floor and filling in the remaining space. However, I had a really hard time placing the wire exactly where I needed it to go. The result is that some spots got doubled up and others remain unfilled. I ran out of steam after a couple of hours of welding, grinding, welding, grinding.... I'll go back tomorrow and take another swing at finishing up the effort.
Got back out in the garage today and made another pass at filling those drilled out spot welds. I changed my "technique" for this attempt. Instead of putting the welding gun straight at the spot that I wanted to weld, I held the gun at an angle, so that I could see the wire. I think that this helped me be more accurate, but not spot on accurate. Oh well, maybe by the time that I'm done, I'll be spot on accurate. Anyway, I did make progress in filling in the holes. However, there are still small low areas. I really don't think that they are completely devoid of welds in those low spots. Rather, I think that the surrounding areas are just higher. In no way do I think that the low spots are affecting the structural integrity of the joint. That structural integrity is achieved around the perimeter of the spot weld drill hole. Those areas are welded correctly. Bottomline: the old saying "better is the enemy of good enough" came into play. So I got them as flat as I could, hit them with a self etching primer since the entire area was down to bare metal and added a top coat of flat black. The primer and paint are just to prevent corrosion. Once the entire floor is done, I'll circle back and paint the entire floor, even though it will be covered with a sound deadener and mat. I'm not worried about how the low spots look, as they will be covered by the windlace and retainer. So no one except for me (and you the reader) will know. The area to the rear of the rocker panel remains as documented in the pics. I had a very difficult time with that area. Not sure what was different, maybe some rust on the the original floor or the original metal was thinner? I'll look at it again when I get to the lock pillar bottom. Pics attached. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.
The factory welds weren't invisible, even after painting, so I wouldn't worry about a little imperfection in your plug welds.
By the time you're done with the project, you'll be an expert.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Well, I did it! The new passenger side floor is now epoxied in place! I changed my mind on using the panel bond after reading their MSDS. It seemed just a bit too dangerous for my home use. So, I switched to JB Weld. Interestingly enough, the JB Weld advertises a greater tensile strength than the panel bond, so I don't think that I'm losing anything by making the switch. My thought in using the epoxy is that it will hold the 2 floor pans together, while the welds that I plan to make will provide the structural strength. I wanted to keep as much of the original floor pan as I could because it attached to the rear of the floor that I was keeping. The area where it went bad was around the battery hole and forward to the toe board. I didn't like the idea of buying a complete half of floor pan and cutting most of it out. Neither did I like the idea of ditching the original metal. So, in my mind, keeping as much of both as I could would be my solution. I know it is not normal, but what can I say. Call it a big experiment that we can all watch. If it fails, all I'm out is the cost of the replacement floor pan half. If it works, I'm that much closer to getting it back on the road.
Where I'm at now: the floor is epoxied and screwed in place. I've also got a bunch of clamps to help hold things in place while the epoxy cures. Because it is cold out in the garage and this coming week is Thanksgiving week, I plan to leave it like this until after the holiday. Once I'm ready to take the clamps off and the screws out, I'll start the welding process. My plan there is to take one screw out at a time, enlarge the screw hole with the spot weld cutter (leaves a 3/8" circular hole) and make the weld between the two parts. Then move onto the next screw and/or hole. Once all of the welding is done, the clamps can come off (earlier if they get in the way...we'll see).
The first pic show the underside of the new floor pan with the EDP coating removed and weld through primer in places where I'll make the plug welds. The second pic shows the original floor pan with weld through primer and epoxy. The third pic shows the floor pan in place with the screws and clamps.
Perhaps ignorance is bliss, but I feel as though I'm making progress. I understand it is unconventional, but I think it'll work. Since I won't be doing anything this week, I won't be making any new posts before the holiday. So...Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
Know that the plug welds will compromise the JB Weld in the vicinity of the welds. Epoxy will loose it's strength at 300 degrees F or so. If you can live with that, then proceed.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I am concerned about the heat of welding damaging the epoxy bond. The JB Weld package claims that the product, once fully cured, can withstand 550 degrees. To try to avoid damaging the bond, I tried to make the area covered in weld through primer a little larger than the weld itself would require, to create a buffer between the weld and epoxy. The other thing that I'm planning on doing is to do the plug welds one dot at a time. I'm hopeful that by going that slow, I don't heat the surrounding metal to too high a temp. Having a cold garage may help dissipate heat a little quicker, too. All combined, I hope that it holds sufficiently. If I screw it up...I guess I'll have to try a different approach. Can you think of any other techniques that I could try to help avoid compromising the epoxy? Thanks for the heads up!
I have found these items to help me when I weld flat panels together. Keep your air gun close, and use it to cool each weld as soon as you weld it. Move around, stay as far away from the last weld as possible. Go slow, If the metal is too hot to touch, it's too hot to weld.
Wayne 1938 1-Ton Farm Truck -30- Stovebolt Gallery Forums When I die, I hope she doesn't sell everything for what I told her I paid for it!
If you have some putty, some of that stuck around each of the plug welds before welding. That would act as a heat sink to keep the weld heat from going too far afield. I think there's specific putty for that use, not something that is oil based, which might ignite.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I would think any autobody supply would carry similar products.
Last edited by Phak1; 11/23/20211:13 AM.
Phil Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals
1952 Chevrolet 3100, Three on the Tree, 4:11 torque tube Updated to: ‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters, 12v w/alternator, HEI, PCV and Power front Disc Brakes Project Journals Stovebolt Gallery Forum
It's been a couple of weeks since my last update. During that time I've been hard at it, welding up a storm. It's been an interesting experience. The weather turned colder here and the garage temps dropped below 50 degrees. That definitely had an impact on the penetration of my welds. To deal with the issue I did a couple of things. First, I moved a small space heater into the cab of the truck to warm the metal up. It's not hot, but certainly warmer than 50 degrees. Additionally, I increased the power setting from "low" to "high" and increased the wire feed slightly. All combined, I think the problem was solved.
As you may recall, I decided to use epoxy to bond the remnants of the original floor pan to the new pan and keep the replacement part whole. I had a few fit issues when I went to bond the two panels together. I'm not sure what went wrong. My only guess is the space that the epoxy took up, but that's only a guess. The fitment issues were not bad enough to cause major problems, just more of an inconvenience for me to work around. In the first pic, you can see that I've been welding the seam between the new panel and the old panels, making a series of weld dots, until it is almost a complete weld across the entire seam. Additionally, I've been removing the sheet metal screws, drilling out the top panel to simulate a drilled out spot weld and making a plug weld, while filling the sheet metal screw hole. I'm not 100% done, yet, but over the hump. It's been a ton of work. The other day, I decided to climb into the cab and test my work by placing my body weight onto the new floor. I sat on the seat riser and there was one pop from a weld breaking. I was quickly able to figure out which dot broke and fixed it. Definitely not a lengthy test, but it made me feel better about my welds. The good welds produce a sharp tone when lightly struck with my slag hammer. The bad welds produce a dull thud. The dull thuds get redone until a sharp, crisp tone is produced. The sound and how the penetration looks on the back side are my factors in accepting the weld dots or redoing them.
In the second pic you can see the outside of the inner cowl (being test fit) and the inner to outer cowl piece being test fit. What a poorly made piece the inner to outer cowl piece is! To deal with the poorly shaped piece, I'm thinking that I will cut out two pie shaped sections in the sides. One will be near the top where the arc begins and the second will be further down with the exact location tbd. The thought is that I'll be able to correct the bend in the back piece to match the arc on the outer cowl. Once the arc is correct, I'll make patches to fit in the pie shapes that I cut out. Kinda hard to describe and it will be easier when pics are attached. However, before I go there, I need to fix the hinge reinforcement part while I have access from both inside and outside of the cab. Then I'll address the bottom of the hinge pillar. Then onto final fitment of the inner cowl piece. Then the inner to outer cowl piece. Oy!
A ton of work still to go, but a ton behind me. Definite progress being made, but I grossly over estimated the speed at which I would be able to work. Meh, that's life. Onwards and upwards! As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Looks like you're making good progress. Welcome to the world of ill fitting replacement panels. That cowl panel has to be one of the worst, just behind the inner-to-outer cowl piece. Sometimes pie cuts are the only way to get them to fit.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Been quite a while since my last update. Truthfully, I've had a hard time getting into the garage lately. Basically since right before Christmas, through the snowstorm and subsequent downed tree cleanup until today, lots of other things that needed to be done. In between, I did get some time in the garage. In the last update, I showed a pic with the floor almost completed. In the interim time, I did get the passenger side floor done. I intentionally left the very center incomplete with the thought that I'd do the center of both sides at the same time. So, with the floor done and a coat of primer and paint down to keep things from rusting, I moved on to a task that most don't have to deal with. Specifically, the lower hinge reinforcement. Earlier posts detailed my thoughts on how to build a new reinforcement. After really digging into it, I decided to keep what I already had and reinforce the reinforcement. What does that mean? I added a second layer around the first...a doubler. What was wrong with the original reinforcer? The top weld nuts were incomplete. The bottom of both nuts were rusted away. The bottom weld nut was still there, but barely attached, with almost all of the reinforcement in that area gone. Pics of the weld nuts are attached. When I cut off the remnants of the weld nuts, it struck me that I could double up on the reinforcement while I was replacing the bottom portion that the weld nut is attached to. A bit unconventional, I understand, but its on the back side of the reinforcement, so it won't get in the way of the hinge (I tested it and the pic is attached). The cross portion that is welded to the sides of the hinge pillar were mostly intact, with one side rusted away. I'll add doublers to that, once I get the new hinge pillar piece installed. All during this effort, I was learning my new HF welder.... Yes, I broke down and bought the new version that they sell, that corrects the major deficiencies of my old one. Mainly, it changes from AC/electrode positive to DC/electrode negative. I really had my doubts that it would make much of a difference, but boy was I wrong! Night and day different. There's good and bad in that, though. Yes my welds will be better and I think that I'll have fewer welds to redo, but there is still a learning curve associated with the new equipment. What better place to practice and learn than in an area that no one will ever see, unless they unearth this journal! Anyway, I'm now satisfied with the reinforcement work and have added a quick coat of paint to protect the bare steel. I did a bare minimum of grinding on the welds, since they will be hidden away. Now, it's time for me to focus on the bottom of the hinge pillar. To be honest, I've had a really difficult time focusing on the reinforcement repair work. Not sure why, maybe its the cold, who knows. I'm hopeful that I can get my motivation back and knock this part out quickly. Sadly, I've still got a mess on my property that needs cleaning and that will have to be dealt with. The last thing I need is my HOA giving me grief! Enjoy the pics. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.
PS, While lacking motivation to work on the current project, I took the time to do an off-topic task that I'll need in the not too distant future. I've always hated the way that the heater switches look like an afterthought. In fact, my truck didn't have a rotary switch, it had a simple toggle switch that was wired with old extension cord! Anyway, to prepare for when the cab welding is done, I knew I needed something for my heater switch. I also want to add a momentary switch for the intended electric fuel pump. The thought here is that the momentary switch will be used to prime the carb bowl before cranking the engine. I also plan to have an oil pressure switch that will work the fuel pump when the engine is running. So, I rooted around and found a good solution. It is a small panel that came from a 1940s F**d. I took out the old heater switch, cleaned off the rust and painted it to match the dashboard. I added both the momentary switch and the new rotary heater switch that everyone sells. I think it looks pretty good! The holes in the original panel exactly match up to factory holes on the underside of the dash, to the left of the steering column. It's like it was meant to be! Several years ago, I did a restoration of the original heater. It's been sitting in my basement waiting for me to get the cab work done. Hopefully it doesn't have to wait much longer. Let me know if you want to see a pic/writeup on the heater. It turned out pretty nice, if I do say so....
I've gotten some garage time over the last week and thought I'd provide an update.
I've wrapped up work on the lower hinge pillar. As I mentioned in my last update, I reinforced the reinforcement box that surrounds the hinge itself. After that I added the patch panel for the bottom of the hinge pillar. As usual, I took an unorthodox approach. Instead of cutting the hinge pillar to fit the patch or cutting the patch to fit the hinge pillar, I added it to the front of the hinge pillar, essentially as a doubler in some places and filling in what's missing for the rest. I thought about this for a long time before making it final. My thoughts on this surrounded two areas. First, I still don't trust my welds for something that will be subject to the loads that the bottom hinge will be subject to. Second, it occurred to me that the hinge pillar gets a lot of its strength from the single piece of metal stamped into a C shape. I wanted to keep as much of that strength as possible, so I went with the doubler approach. For alignment purposes, using the hinge opening and bolt holes made alignment easy. I trimmed the edges of the new panel, so that it would fit, bolted it to the existing hinge pillar and welded up the holes that I punched in it and the edges. It seems pretty solid. I know what you're thinking...how will the door close with the added thickness? I thought about that, too. The patch panels do add thickness if you use them the way that I have. I'm just not convinced that 1950's manufacturing tolerances for sheet metal fab were that tight. Tolerance stacking is a concern, but i think I'll get away with it this once. The rear pillar (lock pillar) will need a patch panel, too, but I'll attach that one in the traditional way as that won't have to hold the weight of a door.
With the hinge pillar completed, I went on to the inner cowl. Initially, I had purchased a partial panel, with the hope of grafting it to the remains of the original inner cowl. Once I really got in there, I concluded that there was no real way to save the original panel. The metal around the opening for the fresh air heater was so thin and rusty, there just wasn't anything to weld to. So, I went ahead and bought the complete panel and what a shock! The complete panel was 100% better quality than the partial! The complete panel was fully formed, including the correct shape on the flange that meets the floor and the firewall! It also had weld nuts installed for the fresh air heater or delete panel and had the flanges that connect it to the firewall and to the inside of the cowl! Needless to say, I was over the moon on that bit of good luck! I spent the last couple of days fighting the old inner cowl to get it cut out and just a bit of grinding to get the huge replacement panel to fit. Voila! It fits! And it looks like that stupid inner to outer cowl panel just might fit, too!!! Holy cow Batman! Right now, they are both held in place with clamps for their initial fitting. Next up is to remove them and prep them for welding. That means sanding off the EDP in areas that will get welded, punch some holes along the edges where the panel meets the floor, firewall and hinge pillar and paint on some weld through primer. Once that is all done, back it goes and the welding begins, again. Exciting times! Once that is done, I think I might do a test fit for the door...just to make sure that I haven't bollixed up anything. If that goes well, it will be on to the outer cowl panel.
Attached pics are: hinge pillar patch panel in place, comparison of old and new inner cowl panels, initial test fit of new inner cowl panel and outside view (with lots of clamps) of inner/inner to outer cowl panels.
As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Mike
Last edited by Phak1; 09/19/20251:15 PM. Reason: Typo
Great find on the complete inner cowl panel. I am working on the same area and have a short panel that seems to be correct at the bottom but not good length wise front to back and a taller version that does not go all the way to the top of the heater opening that is poorly formed at the bottom, no weld nuts, etc.
Your work looks good, I cna only hope that mine turns out going as well.
Please share with the guys where you got that panel. I suspect it was a Dynacorn supplied one, as it looks like their complete panel.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Well, to quote the famous movie: "Houston, we have a problem." I did the final fitting of the inner cowl panel, prepped it for welding and did a cursory tacking in place and then brought out the passenger side door to check the opening. While the door did fit withing the opening, it just barely fit at the bottom. It seems as though either the hinge pillar warped some while I was welding in the patch or it was somehow bent sometime else in it's life. I''m guessing it warped. To see what kind of warping I was dealing with, I decided to make a series of measurements on both driver and passenger door openings and compare the two. To do this, I placed painter's tape on both sides of the door opening and made tick marks at 1 inch intervals down the length of the door opening, starting at the bottom of the beltline. I made this scale on both door openings. Then, I measured the length of the opening at each tick mark, measuring from the edge of the door gap in the rear of the opening, across to the corresponding tick mark on the hinge pillar. The results are below:
What you can see from this data is that the door openings are close in size, but not exactly the same. The closest in size that they are is at 35:34 7/8. Otherwise, there is a consistent 1/8 to 1/4 inch difference, until just above the hinge pillar patch panel. From there, the difference in sizes increases until it reaches a 5/8 inch difference. So, it would seem that I have to remove a couple of the tack welds and find a way to reposition the bottom of the hinge pillar to enlarge the bottom of the door opening. I did mentally take note of the added thickness of the "doubler" hinge pillar patch panel. It definitely adds to the thickness, but the door easily fit within the inner opening that isn't visible to outside of the truck. The problem was with the door gap opening, that you can see. I'm concerned about the door hitting the outer cowl panel when opening or closing the door.
I'll be thinking this over for a bit, before taking any action. Thoughts and/or suggestions welcome. Also, sorry for my poor skills in making a spreadsheet on the forum....
Mike Self drilling Sheetmetal screws are your friend when fitting panels. They can be removed easily as opposed to spot welds. The holes can be filled with weld one at a time once everything is lined up. It sounds like your hinge pillar patch wasn’t correctly lined up, which you’ll need to fix. Comparing driver and passenger door openings doesn’t tell the whole story. You should use the door as the basis for it’s opening.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Point taken on using the actual door to gauge door opening requirements. I'll find the hinges and reinstall the door to see where I actually stand. For reference purposes, I'm attaching some pics of the passenger side door, which were taken on the day that the truck was delivered to me. It's interesting to look back and see that the front door gap was basically zero. There is some gap in the rear of the door, but none in the front. I'm not sure what was going on. Any ideas? I'll post current pics once I have the door reattached.
Your hinges were probably worn out, but that's a bit more unusual on the passenger side. The driver's side door hinges are usually in the worst shape. You may need to restore the hinges to get a good fit on the door. You may be able to fit it correctly when closed, but if the pivot points aren't close to original, it may hit the hinge pillar when opening.
[on edit]The rust along the forward edge of the door and the hinge pillar looks like it had already been wearing the paint off there.
Last edited by klhansen; 03/12/20226:54 PM.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
OK, I hung the passenger side door this morning. I learned several things from this.
First, the door fits in the opening better than I thought it did. I was able to close the door and had a good gap around most of it. The problem spot was to the rear of the door at the bottom. No surprise there! It was the bottom of the hinge pillar that had warped inward, making the door gap smaller.
Second, those 1950's manufacturing tolerances (or lack thereof) really did reach through time and bite me. Had the passenger side door opening been built to the same dimensions as the driver side door opening, I would have had the extra 1/8 to 1/4 inch to the opening and the door would likely have fit.
Third, I think that this is something that I can recover from with a minimal amount of disruption.
Fourth, the simple tack welds held the weight of the door just fine! Once the orientation of the hinge pillar is corrected and the final welding is done on both the inner and outer cowl panels, I have good confidence that the door will operate as intended.
It's not a win, yet...but I think that I can make it one. Pics attached to show door gaps. As always, comments and/or suggestions are welcome.
I thought your concern about a warped door pillar was at the front where you're working on the cowl panel. Did you also replace the lower section of the rear door pillar? I don't see any evidence of work there, or you're REALLY good at not burning paint off when you weld. But like Kevinski said, the door fit looks pretty good.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I did only work on the hinge pillar. What I think happened is that it warped some when I was welding on it, moving the hinge pocket rearward in the process. My thought is if I can work the warp out of the pillar, the hinge pocket will follow and move forward, too. That would give me the clearance for the bottom of the door and hopefully not ruin the door gap on the front. My initial thought is to drill out several of the tack welds on the inner cowl, to just above the weld seam for the patch panel. Then planish the weld seam and see if it moves the pillar. I'm thinking that if the weld shrunk the metal and moved it rearward, planishing it would stretch it back out and move it closer to it's original position. That's assuming that I have any understanding of the concept...which I may not. I'm really not looking for much movement, just enough to get the bottom of the door to not grind against the lock pillar. If the planishing doesn't work, I'll think on it and try something else.
Wayne's idea of a porta-power or other type of jack could push the hinge pocket and pillar forward. Be careful to spread the load against the back of the door opening and go real slow. You don't want to kink the cowl panel. The other option is a 2x4 laid flat on the hinge pillar and a BFH. But that can go bad pretty quickly if you swing too hard. Again, go slow.
Once something is fully welded in, planishing doesn't move things very much if at all.
Lay a straightedge against the pillar to see where it needs to move. I believe it should be flat from the top of the upper hinge all the way to the bottom of the pillar. You might need to cut it where you welded it where it wraps forward to give it some flexibility to line up.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I got out in the garage today and started the effort to correct the passenger side door opening. I started by drilling out tack welds, moving from the bottom and going up until I was 2 tacks above the hinge pillar patch. With the hinge pillar partially separated from the inner cowl, I was able to flex the hinge pillar, slightly. However, once I Iet go of it, it returned to its starting position. To deal with this, I decided to use clamps to hold it in place. After moving the hinge pillar and clamping it in place, I took another measurement to see how far I had actually moved it. Short answer, not much! So, I added a piece of tape with a line scribed on it, so that I could tell at a glance, how far it was moved. Turns out I needed some mechanical assistance to move it the amount that I needed. I did not have a porta power device, so I tried using my scissor jack and a piece of 2x6 lumber. It really didn't work out well, as both pillars are installed at angles and the lock pillar wanted to move as much as the hinge pillar. Plan B worked. Using the 2x6 lumber as a lever and the running board as a fulcrum, I could easily move the hinge pillar. It was a bit awkward doing the lever and clamps at the same time, but I managed. The hinge pillar is now clamped and has six sheet metal screws holding it 1/4" further forward from where I started. Based on the amount of scraping that the rear of the door was doing, I think that this should be enough additional clearance to get the job done. So far, I have not checked for bowing on the hinge pillar. I ran out of time today. I'll check that tomorrow. Assuming that it is ok, I hope to re-hang the door and check for clearances, all around. My question: will the six sheet metal screws be enough to hold the hinge pillar to the inner cowl (plus the topmost tack welds) and support the weight of the door? Please advise. Thanks!
If you have those sheet metal screws tight, they'll keep things in position. I like to use the self drilling sheet metal screws, because as they drill the hole in both pieces, it locks things in tight, even if the screw isn't driven completely home.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Time for a quick update. Time in the garage is limited, as usual, but I have managed to get some work done. Most notably, I was able to check the clearance of the door after "finessing" it back into position, which I noted in my last update. I did use sheet metal screws to secure the inner cowl to the hinge pillar before checking the door fitment. Once I knew that the door fit correctly, I set about doing all of the welding. Because the inner cowl connects to the hinge pillar, floor, rocker panel, firewall and to the outer cowl, there was a considerable amount of welding. Of course, some of those required welds couldn't be done until after the outer cowl is replaced, but there was still a lot of welding to be done. I'm thankful to report that the welding that I could do now, is complete.
I was griping to Sweet about my dislike of the louvers on the outer cowl. I know that they serve a purpose for those that have the fresh air heater. However, my truck came with the recirculating heater and I plan to stick with that (before and after restoration pics attached). He convinced me not to do something rash, like weld the louvers shut, and to come up with a different solution. So, I set about looking for a kick panel vent (Chevrolet called it the "inner cowl" for our trucks, but most of the rest of the world knows it as a kick panel). I initially was interested in the fresh air vents used in early 1960's Chevy trucks. However, they all are priced at a steep premium, so I kept looking. What I settled on was a kick panel vent from a 1970's - 1980's Volvo. It was smaller than the opening, which I liked, as it would allow me to make an adapter that I could drill holes for that would exactly match both the Volvo vent and my truck. Because of the hinge on the vent being in the way, I had to make the adapter out of two halves and overlap them around the vent. I first made a template from the old fresh air heater delete plate that came in my truck and then fit the outline of the Volvo vent inside of the shape. I cut out the inside shape and what I was left with was the template for the adapter. All I did after that was to cut out the metal shapes, drill the holes and grind off the rough edges. I did a mock up of the completed assembly in the truck this morning (pic attached) and am happy with it! Once the weather clears, I'll take it out and apart, prep the unprimed piece for primer and when dry, paint both halves. Then I'll assemble the whole unit and set it aside until I'm done with the rest of the sheet metal work. It was a nice diversion and I think will ultimately be useful in bringing in more fresh air into the truck. The added benefit is that I did not permanently modify anything! If I ever change my mind, or a future owner wants, a fresh air heater can be added by simply unbolting the adapter and Volvo vent. Additionally, since those pesky louvers will still be exposed to the outside air, I plan on applying something to the inside cavity before closing it up with the new outer cowl. My initial thought is either bed liner or undercoating. In addition to providing corrosion protection, I'm thinking it might provide some level of sound deadening.
So, I know some are shaking their heads and wondering what in the world I'm thinking. That's ok! I think that I just look at the world a little differently. In the end, I think my truck will be fine and definitely, uniquely mine!
I like it. GM got rid of the left side cowl vent for '51, but left the louvers on the passenger side for some reason. You've got another spot for ventilation with your damper you put on.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
A quick update to wrap up my diversion, the fresh air vent. I'm including three pics. The first is of the parts for my fresh air vent. The second is the vent and adapter painted and assembled. The third is in the truck. I went ahead and painted the adapter that I made so that it will match the inner cowl once it is painted. To match the dash (which is already painted) I used Rustoleum #7713 Dark Bronze. I'm sure it is darker than the original color, but it is a good color that's in the same color family, just a little darker. I can post a pic of the dash, if anyone is interested. I'm sure some are wondering why my dash is already painted when I'm in the middle of major reconstruction. As I mentioned in the inaugural post, I had no plans to do the sheet metal work right now. The truck thought otherwise. I've covered the dash with a plastic tarp, which is often visible in my pics. And now you know the rest of the story, to borrow a phrase.
Quick update with big news! The outer cowl is off! While that may not sound like huge news, it is a milestone that I've been anticipating for years. I've attached 2 pics. The first is of the remnants of the original outer cowl. The second is the very first test fit of the replacement outer cowl. I simply could not be happier! The new outer cowl will need to be better positioned, when I'm ready, but even just sitting there, it looks awesome! For now, though, I'll take it off and work on the upper hinge similarly to how I dealt with the lower hinge. I'll also have to grind off the remnants of the spot welds on the hinge pillar and deal with some surface rust on the inside of the pillar. Then, its showtime for that outer cowl.
As I was told early on, once this is done, no one will be able to knock the smile off of my face (or something similar). I'm here to tell you...it's true!
