The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors Windlace question

I am getting ready to install the windlace on my 1950 gmc. When I put in a short piece of the windlace and close the door. The windlace is not even close to the door. In the picture the grey part is the door. The outside of the door lines up with the body so the door seems correct on outside. Any suggestions.

I can't really see what I am looking at in your first picture. What part of the door is that?

Yeah, first pic is pretty fuzzy.

Does your windlace look like this? Notice that the bulb wraps outward from the channel.

I had the same issue with my 54 3100. Door is in the correct alignment but the wind lac does not engage? I have not solve the problem. I will be following this post.

I just looked at my 1950 truck which still has the factory installed windlace but I can't tell if the original profile is identical to the sample photo posted. If it is, the 1 1/8" flat part should wrap over the inside of the door frame.

Otto,
I have the circle part towards the door. When you say 1 1/2" part, does that mean the the round part measures 1 1/2 " ? Mine only measures about 1/2". I will try to get better pics tonight. But I am seeing the same gap as the pic posted by Dave (dgrinnan).
I even tried to pull the round part around the edge of the track and it still doesn't reach the door. My windlace does not wrap outward as Kevin mentioned. If I hold my windlace it is pretty flat. I will post more pics tonight.
Ron

Hi Moto,

I was referring to the flat portion of the windlace. It's about 1 1/8" wide and extends away from the door opening. The round bulb part on my original is also 1/2" diameter.

I'll see if I can get some decent pictures of the original so we can see exactly what the differences are.

The flat part of the windlace that rests on the inside of the door frame is 1 1/8" not 1 1/2". I changed the previous posts to avoid confusion.

Here are some pics with a ruler to see where the original windlace sits when installed. With the door closed it pushes up against the door to seal the jamb.

The original material made by GM looked like the first image below. I know this because I used to buy it directly from GM until I couldn't get it any longer. Since GM dropped this product (early 80s), it has only been made by others and it looks like the second image below. Please study this and you'll see it reveals some things. You will see there is no arch on the bulb side at all. For this to seal, the arch must be present on both sides of the retainer. The non-bulb part of the arch is present and the extruder wanted that part to be sincerely arched. The thickness of the lip tells you that clearly. The second part of the arch (on the bulb side) presses the bulb toward the outside of the cab and against the door (where it will contact the door but only slightly). The original material over time shrunk and got more brittle. You don't want this to press too tightly against the door. It was never intended to do that. If it pushes too hard against the door, I can promise you the door will become very hard if not impossible to close. A one inch piece of this makes it seem very easy to move the bulb back and forth. With 5 feet of it bent into a U, the bulb becomes exponentially harder to move, so as I said you want it to just kiss the door a bit. Good luck!

Mine looks much different than that. The brand I have is precision brand

Yes, you can see that there's no way that bulb will contact the door in Moto's sample.

Jon, is there anybody that makes the correct profile? Steele, perhaps?

Yeah I had planned on pulling the bulb around corner and gluing it to the door jam, but it still didn't reach the door.

I just checked Steele and they don't offer it.

Maybe if Steele got a a sample of your stash, Jon, they would produce it.

I couldn't find the correct profile windlace in any of the usual suspects' catalogs. Most only offer the pinch type windlace and nothing rembling the original.

I don't know if Steele would be interested. They have this product, but the view of it (taken from their website) indicates they've just copied the same incorrect design out there since the early 80s. (see below) Plus they want over $95 for both doors and only have it in black. Back in the 80s I decided somebody made their die based on windlace that had worn out and had lost the arch and somehow never thought the situation further through than that. As I said, it is a balance. You need it to just barely make contact with the door or it won't shut properly...and for anyone making the product this is a potential lawsuit. If the AD door lock only catches on the first latch position, it is nearly a promise it will shake open as the truck is driven. Plus the rubber used today is as hard as a pencil eraser. Ideally it ought to be much softer.

Also below is an image of some OEM windlace I removed from my truck a couple of years ago. You can see 3 yellow arrows. The bulb sits over 1/8" higher than the base of the inset piece and the other edge is very close to the base of the inset piece. Made like this, it works. But if you hark back to the first image I gave you (the one where the piece looks pretty flat except for the one arched side), you'll see the bottom of the bulb actually sits LOWER than the base of the inset piece. How anyone who made it past the age of about 3 got the idea this would work is beyond me, but they did and lots of the stuff has been sold. I don't know. Fortunately this is a secondary seal and if your door weatherstrip is correct and your door hinges, locks and striker plates are in good nick, you'll be ok, but there's no way on earth it will provide a windlace seal.

Here is a look at the new style of windlace (the closest I've found to the OEM style) showing the 3 yellow arrows. The middle arrow shows where the retaining piece will bottom out. The bulb should be at least 1/8" lower but as you see it actually sits higher than that by a bit. The other arrow shows roughly where the one arched piece will sit when this is installed (about the same level).

You guys are getting me worried now.

I have replacement windlace I got from Jim Carter. It's likely the wrong profile, with the bulb being mainly cosmetic. I also saved a small chunk of original windlace that I'll have to dig out and compare.

Jon,
Where did that windlace come from? That looks alot close than the stuff I got.

I'll be curious to know what you find, Kevin. I've bought and studied lots of this stuff and I haven't found anyone who has gotten it right yet. Some time back I even asked a fellow (dead now, sadly) who ran a body shop here specializing in restoration work. He said I should do what he does and just consider this to be pretty trim work because all of it is being made by people who are more concerned with appearance than functionality and have little idea what they're making will be used for. And some of the mistakes are absolutely comical. Case in point...Below the first image shows the 9 lines running along the OEM stuff. Most of it has no lines, but the best I've found has 5 lines. How much more work would it have taken to cut 4 more lines into the extrusion die? Another 10 minutes? Maybe.

The gray material came from Classic Parts but was bought (as I recall) in 2019. I am not certain what they have today. It was about $35 for both doors.

And that one from Classic doesn't contact the door, either, right?

No, it doesn't. Looks ok, however.

Here's a pic of the piece of original windlace from my '51. You can see that the bulb is below the bottom of the channel as is the piece that laps over the cab. The bulb is likely where the door was, as it's pretty hardened after being in the weather for 70+ years.
The replacement windlace I got was from Jim Carter back in spring '19. It cost me $40 for the two doors. It's still buried out in my trailer as it's one of the last things I'll need to do.

Maybe I could send a sample to Steele and see if they could modify their mold and produce something that actually touches the door.

Steele used to advertise the customer service aspect of their business. They bragged they could replicate anything as long as a good sample was provided. Call the customer service # and chat em up.

Not sure what happened at Steele, if anything, but I've been to their place buying stuff several times. Each time seems a little "different" and I'll leave it at that!

.....several years ago while there I ask if they would be interested in giving Stovebolters a discount...even had contact info for headquarters ect but as one may suspect it got no where!

But, we never know. If I get back up there soon I'll pose a coupe questions to them.

Yes, that is the original that Kevin showed up there. And as posted earlier, I have some of that I've kept also. As for Steele, I'll keep positive thoughts and we'll see. You never know. I worked with them in the 70s on the vent window project, but I'm not certain that fellow is still around.

If the bulb isn't at least between 1/8" and preferably more like 3/16" below the bottom surface of the retaining strip, nothing is going to touch the door. And...this is important...the rubber compound needs to be softer. Something as hard as what is being used today simply won't work. I know you can't mix shore settings (hardness) on the same extrusion, but ideally that would be the answer...with the bulb section being softer.

Steele sent me a customized catalog for my truck a few years back. They have the windlace, but only in black. I may contact them and see what they say about modifying their mold.

Seems like the stem holding the bulb could be made a bit thinner to allow it to flex easier.

Here are a few more pictures of how mine fits in truck. The first one is taken through the window in door. The second shows the measurement from seal to edge of body. The last is a top view of how the seal sits in the track.

More of a wind deflector than a seal.

I have been paying close attention and now it makes since why my wind lace never came close to sealing the door. I thought I was special.

Yes, exactly so. In fact, whoever extruded the seal I have (the gray stuff) had that same idea. The stem is thinner than the other side and if you look further you'll see the bulb itself varies in thickness. Specifically the bulb where it attaches to the stem is 1.45mm and diametrically opposed to that is 2.45mm. Part of what I mentioned last night about softer material is this: watching how this stuff works over a 30 year period, it will rub a line in the door paint if the bulb is made of firm rubber. We all know the windlace used on coupes/sedans of the same era was soft sponge rod covered in cloth and it pushed nicely against the door when closed. The whole idea being to help reduce wind whistles in those (which do occur and generally at the top of the window areas). In fact it was so bad in hardtops, GM designed a stainless flap with fuzzie seal on it that was opened/closed by the window frame in the 55, 56 and 57 Chevy hardtops. These were neat but also a real pain to fix if they ever got messed up. I'm open to any suggestion at all.

Little fatigued today. I've been writing instruction files for a CNC laser cutter since this morning. Like weatherstripping...really neat when all works right and worthless when all fails.

I hear you Jon. I am a machinist and program 5 axis machines. It is nice when everything falls into place, but a real pain when it doesn't. It would be nice if we could get the original drawing from gm and find an extruder to make a run. If we got enough guys to commit to a buy we could probably get it done. just need a good drawing and the right material. Even an N.O.S piece that we could measure and make a drawing. I may play around and try sketching something up myself. When I looked on steele's web side, their part looks similar to your new piece but cost 95.

What I have here would work fine if there was only an arch on the bulb side, but de-vulcanizing and re-vulcanizing rubber isn't something you can do at home.

I like my windlace air deflectors just the way they are. If it gets too loud to hear the radio, it means I am driving too fast.

So here is the drawing I made . I put a few feelers out to rubber extruders to see what they say. Any rubber experts on here that know what type of rubber we want to use and what durometer? Looking at this chart, I am thinking around the 20 range.

From your chart with 20 being like a rubber band, I'd say 30 might be more appropriate. But with the piece of original windlace I have being weather and age hardened, that's just a WAG.

I believe that chart is wrong. A pencil eraser is more like Shore A 60 or 70 in my experience. Maybe the erasers we get around here are different. I was thinking Shore A 40 or so. Your drawing looks good.

got a call back from one of the extruders. He is familiar with car weather stripping. He can only go as soft as 40-45.
I guess the softer material takes different type of machine. They are in the US. I will be getting a quote soon.
They will provide samples before the run. I am sending him the stuff I have now so he can see what their durometer is.
If I get the price, I will see how many are interested and how the price breaks down. Maybe if they do a good job, I can refer him to Steele, or the other supply houses.
Ron

I'll be very curious. To get an idea of the "hardness" of the rubber, try to press on the thick area of the windlace piece you currently have (the area between the bottom of the part going in to the retaining piece and the top). What I have is in my opinion at least 90 and possibly flirting with 100. About as hard as a pool ball. 40 would be good...45 might also be ok and even 50 might do. That scale is funny.

Jon, if you're talking about the original windlace, it's likely hardened with age, and was much softer when new. I know the piece I have is pretty hard (but no where as hard as a pool ball).

This might be an interesting gadget to play with.