The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Fuel Pump

We went to the Napa Parts store to order a fuel pump for our ‘49 and thought we were ordering a temporary electric one that Jerry had recommended. Apparently that got lost in translation and somehow ended up ordering a new permanent one to replace the one that came off it.
Anyway this is what the clerk ordered and came in today. Does this look right?? It doesn’t look like the old one except the mounting plate and it is mechanical, not electric. The clerk also sold my husband some 3/16 metal tubing for the fuel line. BUT the tag is marked “brake line” and it is smaller than tge original metal fuel line. I was thinking we could use flexible tubing not the metal.
Hoping Jerry will see this also since he was helping us. The photos are on my phone and can’t transfer them to my email yet.

Thanks!
Suzette

That POS is what most folks are selling to replace the OEM pump. The mounting flange is too thick for the OEM bolts and the inlet/outlet ports don't line up. Looking at your pictures the ports are WAY far off, much more than the POS I got. Take it back and look for an AC Delco 429. I ordered one from The Filling Station and that's what they sent me. The mounting is very close. It went on my '53 with no issues. I'm disappointed NAPA is every trying to peddle that nonsense.

That fuel pump will work, but the connection locations are completely wrong. The stock pump has the inlet on the rear and the outlet on the front, both parallel to the mounting flange.
I would take that one back. If you have the original, you can get a rebuild kit from Then and Now Automotive and make it like new.
As far as the tubing, other than it being the wrong size, it being labeled brake line is OK, as long as it is steel. It just needs to fit the connectors and have a hole thru the middle of it.
You definitely should use a flexible line between the frame and the fuel pump inlet to keep engine vibration from breaking a rigid line.

Advance Auto sells the correct ones. At least the one I got here in Atlanta was correct. Both the inlet and outlet steel lines lined up exactly.

The $10.00 electric pump I referenced on the Ebay ad will work to get the engine running to do the testing you need to see if it's worth investing any more money into it. There's no point in shoveling cubic dollars down a money pit until you can run the engine long enough to see if it's worth all the parts you've already bought. The metal fuel line should be 5/16", not 3/16". Rubber line is a lot more practical at this stage of the game. You should return both those parts for a refund. The pump doesn't fit, and the line is the wrong size. "Patience, grasshopper!"
Jerry

Thanks everyone for your advice and input! I think NAPA was determined to make a sale no matter what! Steve is returning it and the “brake line” tomorrow. We are going to have to ask you guys on this forum before purchasing any parts! Jerry, I had to laugh out loud when you said, “Patience grasshopper!” 😂 You are getting to know me pretty well!! 🤣 In this case, blame goes mostly to Steve and the NAPA clerk. I kept saying get a cheap electric one but nobody was listening to me! Lol! Jerry I must of missed your $10 one on EBay, so will have to go back and look through your posts. That sounds perfect to test the engine with further! Thanks!

It was referenced either in an email or a PM- - - -the little round electric pump that looks like a fuel filter with a couple of wires sticking out of it. What if you spend a lot of money on bits and pieces only to discover the engine has a bearing knock, or it burns as much oil as gasoline, and it's just too far gone to run without a major overhaul? Right now, the idea is to do just what's necessary to get it to run long enough to evaluate its condition without sinking a lot of funds into the project. That's also why I suggested using a garden hose for cooling instead of trying to rig up a radiator, water pump, fan belt, etc.

I lied- - - -it's $11.99!
Jerry

SuziQ, if you have a gas can, just use that. As long as the hose to the carb is full, you can test run the engine by keeping the gas can above the level of the carburetor. A gallon can will probably run the engine for an hour. Early automobiles (Model A for instance) used gas tanks mounted in the cowl above the carburetor. Gravity works pretty well, actually. No need for a pump at all.

Jerry, the reason it won't post as a hyperlink is probably because it's an ebay link which are frowned on outside of the ebay/craigslist forum. SuziQ go to ebay and search for item number 324130404697. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/324130404697 in Jerry's link) EDIT: I'll be darned, if you put quotes around it, it seems to work.

Will do! Thanks so much y’all. Will send a follow video and post later! Have a great day

Here is a question is a fuel pump from a 216 the same as a 235 and are all 235 fuel pumps the same other than the outlet and inlet .(hydraulic cam vs solid lifter cam ).if so here is a pump that looks more like the pump that is on my 235.

The inlet/outlet port positioning is the only difference I know of. These sellers use old fuel pump photos like the one you post in their ads but send pumps that look like the one the OP posted. I ordered and returned several from different jobbers. I finally found one correct through Speedway on ebay and an AC Delco 429 through The Filling Station. One is on the car and one on the shelf as a spare. I understand even Speedway is now selling the wrong pump but still using old photos.

Is anyone selling a rebuilding kit for the old style pump that's assembled with screws? They're not terribly difficult to repair. The somewhat tricky part is replacing the one way check valves which are usually staked into place.
Jerry

I bought a repair kit from Then and Now Automotove for my original? fuel pump. The check valves were held in by a plate that's held down by screws. I needed to find the correct one from the number cast into the housing. They have a lot of choices. It worked very well.
[on edit] I posted the link in page 1 of this thread.

The fuel pump question comes up a lot.
The question is, why can't I get a rebuilt original fuel pump?
The next question is why do FLAPS and other retailers have the "wrong" pumps in stock?

I think the supply of rebuildable old original style pumps are now "poof".
The rebuilding plants of the 50', 60's and later are now "poof".
It costs more to rebuild severely metal fatigued old pumps than make new ones.
A.C. Delco built new replacements (some steel body parts rather than cast and inlets/outlets changed position etc.).
The A.C. replacements are now probably used up and now we have to deal with clone pumps.
The history of the pump has changed so much and the clone manufacturers are not striving to make a 100% perfect fit.
The automotive world is now EFI and electrical fuel pumps. Next generation is EV.
Mechanical fuel pumps and carburetors sales don't generate enough profit.

What we need to know:
*) Is the pump arm correct?
*) Does it bolt to the block correctly?
*) Does it have the correct PSI?
*) Is it built for Ethanol gasoline?
*) Other things I can't think of right now.

The AD truck was built for a generation of people who worked and repaired things themselves.
Problems with the inlet and outlet fuel connections would quickly be overcome.

Attached is some info from previous discussions.
It could be Stovebolt. Sorry I can't remember.

There's always the possibility of using an original-appearing pump housing as a dummy, and routing the fuel from an electric pump through it. Hide the electric pump back under the cab where the line from the tank is routed, and use an oil pressure sensing switch to shut it off in case the engine stalls. An oil pressure light switch for a Chevy Vega also had two contacts that ran the pump, and served as a "rollover" switch to interrupt the fuel flow anytime the oil pressure dropped.
Jerry

That's a possibility Jerry, but the diaphragm would need to be in place (and intact) to keep the fuel out of the crankcase and the oil out of the fuel. The arm that runs on the cam could just be sawzalled off and the check valves eliminated. If it has a fuel bowl on top, that would still work, and would look original.

The simple way is to gut the mechanical pieces including the lever arm, use a blind gasket or a sheet metal block plate at the block, and run a piece of tubing through the dummy housing. No, that won't work with a glass bowl filter unless a sheet metal plate is used between the top and bottom of the pump.
Jerry

No matter what you come up with, it's still a matter of taste.
Attached is the AC 429 old style and AC 429 new style.
Many don't like the new style even though it is an AC made replacement.

Remove the pump and install a blank plate with gasket.
Install an electrical fuel pump (with safety circuit TBD).
Connect an inline fuel filter to the inlet and outlet connections of the old pump lines.

Are fuel pumps all mechanically compatible across the full run of 216/235 engines? I’m not talking about the details like inlet/outlet angle or dual action.

Does the arm reach the thing and make the pump᠁.do it’s pump thing?

There is a lobe on the camshaft that operates the lever arm on the fuel pump. As far as I can tell, 216 and 235 pumps are interchangeable so far as mounting on the engine and being operated by the camshaft are concerned. There are several variations externally, such as the position of the inlet and outlet ports, crimped or machine screws to assemble the parts, and whether the pump moves only fuel or has a separate chamber to boost the intake manifold vacuum to help the windshield wipers work. Two one way check valves keep the fuel moving in the right direction.
Jerry

An old note:
In 1952 the length of the arm was increased slightly longer to activate for a longer period of time. It increased the output by 1/2 psi.

That's all good and fine but many of the old generation pumps were rebuilt multiple times and like carburetors, who knows what parts have been swapped or replaced.
Today we have rebuilt second generation pumps and new clones.

If there is a concern , the pump output can be measured and compared with the specs.

I just had to toss the one that came on my 216. I thought I would see about rebuilding it but when I opened it up, it was full of white powder. I assume this was the zinc from the pot metal corroding from modern gas.

For what it’s worth, original plumbing on an AD truck is a short section of rubber from tank to hard line at frame, and then hard line all the way to pump inlet. Factory allowed the hard line to move a bit, from what I can tell.

A short section of rubber at the pump wouldn’t be terrible idea. And in the original poster’s case, would be the most expedient way to get going with a non-original pump.