I have a 53 chev halfton that I have switched to 12 volt, but would also like to change to electronic igniton. It is the original 216 engine. There's not much space for a large cap. Is it possible?
murray, I just purchased a HEI for my 235. It is, of course a GM unit. I too wondered if the HUGE cap would fit in the stock location. Yippee, it does. This distributor will not just drop in though, machining is necessary. I don't think the 216 is dimensionally that much different from the 235 so I think a GM HEI would fit. You could always do a Pertronix unit that fits in the stock distributor, then you have no extra work at all. With all the modifications you have made, it obviously is no longer stock!! Why not upgrade to a modern 6 cylinder.
Another option besides the HEI is the ignition module from Pertronix. It replaces the points & condensor in your original distributor. I'm running them in two of my old trucks and am happy with them.
IMHO, keep the points!!! I know it can be a pain to keep them adjusted and everything, but a set of points never left a guy stranded without warning. Electronic ignition, no matter what kind, can "go out" with no warning wherever you are. For me it was a busy intersection at lunch time on a Friday. Just my opinion.
-Tim '51 Chevy 3104 w/'56 235, 848 Head, HEI Dizzy, Corvette Cam, Split Manifold and Dual Carter YF's
Search the forum for other threads before you buy a HEI. It is fairly easy to get one off a later chevy/gm six in the boneyard and with some very simple grinding and the addition of a retaining collar make it work on your engine for a whole lot less money that what you'd pay to buy one that someone else modified for you.
What gear do you use on the HEI? Anybody have any pics of the modifications? A few years ago I installed an HEI in A 258 Jeep engine and it worked out very well. I did have to change the drive gear,though. Thanks Arnie
Thanks to all you US friends. I will take all advice and be sure to let you know how I make out. And thanks fab 51, I will consider keeping the points also. I'll add also that I really wanted the truck to use and not as a show vehicle and wanted to keep it as stock as possible but make it easier to run and found the 6 volt system a pain. Especially if I run it this winter, and hey, this is Saskatchewan and it's cold up here. shouldn't complain tho, my farmer relatives ran them as farm trucks year round.
Ah...horse feathers. I have been converting points vehicles to electronic ignitions for 15 years and have never had one break yet. And that includes 2 BMW high millage motorcycles, and my truck (pertronix) which has been doing fine for 2 years. I have never had electronic ignition go out yet on any vehicle I have owned. And I had factory units on a suzuki rotary (wankel) motorcycle (RE5) from 1975 and a 82 honda turbo bike (CX500 Turbo) and a 1977 Ducati 900 GTS (italian bike) - all of which were supposedly unreliable.
i have a pertronix on my 235. question, my engine will only start if i hold the starter button til the rpms get up to 1500 or more they it will run up to 3 or 4000, let it drop to idle and it dies, can this be caused by the pertonix ign? ron i don't mean to hijack the thread but i need answers. ron
Ron, The Computer Greek I love therefore I am. 1954 3100 Chevy truck In the Gallery 2017 Buick Encore See more pix 1960 MGA Roadster Sold 7/18/2017
Not only did I have the HEI in the '51 go out, but also my '79 Thunderbird's DuraSpark unit went. I was driving down the highway and it died. I coasted into a driveway and replaced the ignition module (I just happened to have a new one, just in case), and went on about my merry way. Had one go on my '88 Ranger. The folks had one go on their '84 F-150. In short, I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them.
-Tim '51 Chevy 3104 w/'56 235, 848 Head, HEI Dizzy, Corvette Cam, Split Manifold and Dual Carter YF's
It's no more difficult to carry a spare ignition module than it is to carry spare points - and probably faster to change. I keep hearing about them going out, but every one I've pulled from the junkyard has checked out. Maybe I just get lucky.
I bow to the wisdom of my bother who's an ASE Triple-Master mechanic (and one of the first in the country to achieve all three!). He switched me over to the HEI... Others may have a different view point but if he says its better than I'll go with him.
Tom Langdon makes a mini HEI that bolts right in makes a good spark, but it is high $$$$!
The pertronix is NOT actualy a electronic ignition it only replaces the points.
There are several modules from Jacobs, Accel and AMD. Some of them will work on the Stovebolts. Some of them are even programmable with a Laptop. All need 12 V. A bit over the top for an old iron.
I bought a electronic SIRIUS ignition here in Germany from a guy who is a retired engeneer for the Porsche Ignitions.
Every box is handmade by this guy, even the copper windings and solid state circiults. Here you se how the ignition box build:
Big difference is: You keep everything stock. No whatever modifications - only 2 cables to reconnect. You keep original points and distributer
B U T: points last forever - because only a minimal current is used there to trigger the ignition box plus you never need to set the dwell again.
Here is some information from his website:
SIRIUS represents the newest state of engineering of electronic ignition devices. Most of the particular facts of SIRIUS exceeds those of the usual thyristor and transistor ignitions at all important and those of the modern electronic ignitions in luxury cars in several points. SIRIUS can fit nearly all motor vehicles with coil and breaker point ignition and 12 or 6 volts battery.
1. Operates from 4,0 up to 18 volts, that means one unit fits 6 and 12 volt vehicles. 2. At 6 volts and 4cyl. engine up to 5000 rpm, at 12 volts up to 10000 rpm with the build-in normal ignition coil. 3. Always the same spark power in the whole voltage range (at 4,0 volts too). 4. No decrease of the ignition power up to the highest rpm with the normal ignition coil. 5. 30% higher ignition power at 20 degrees centigrade, also with the normal coil. 6. Increasing ignition power at decreasing temperature; 100% more that means double ignition power at 20° centigrade below zero. Best start conditions in winter. 7. No current flow through the coil, when ignition is switched on, the breaker point is closed and the engine is not running. 8. Automatic adaption of the spark voltage to the spark plug air gap. 9. Best ignition spark: DC spark with a duration of .5 to 1.5 ms; no AC spark with all ist disadvantages. 10. Durability of the breaker point much more than 100 000 Km (70 000 miles), no contact eroding. 11. No adjusting of the dwell necessary, the opening of the breaker point controls the whole igniting procedure. 12. Build-in indicator lamp, usable for testing contact circuitry and to adjust and test the trigger point of ignition. 13. All build-in ignition parts remain in the car (like ignition coil, breaker point and condenser). Makes installation and rebuild easy. 14. Works together with any breaker point ignition coil you like, as well as the exotic double-coils of Citroën’s 2CV. 15. Easy to install: Mount SIRIUS at a suitable place with screws, connect cables and fix them. Ready, that’s all.
I asked him if I can use it on a 6 Volt system and the inline 6. He says he modifies the box for me for free to run on a 6 cylinder engine.
It is one of the best improvements I ever did for the 41. Starts like a modern car, idles smooth, drives like never bevore, better HP and milage.
Oh boy, I sound like one of those cheesy guys on sales TV...
... and NO! I don`t get any money for that. I just think this is the best device for our Stovebolts and want to share the information.
I have a question about an electronic ignition conversion. The back story is that an HEI distributor wont slide down the shaft bore of my 283 because the diameter of the sensor and cap mounting plate is too wide and hits the firewall. I tried to jack the back of the engine up a bit but that didn't make it clear, and after thinking about it, even if it did I suspect the cap would hit when i lowered it. My question is actually two-fold: does anyone know of a original dimension complete distributor that is currently available and works reliably or, can someone recommend a good quality and reliable conversion kit I can use in the distributor i have?
Some have had success with Pertronix and others have not. Choices for retaining the original footprint of the distributor are slim. Pertronix may be the only choice. Good luck.ðŸ›
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
I was just searching online for a solution and have to agree that the options for an original footprint are pretty much nonexistent, so I went and reassessed the condition of the original distributor I have (that appears to have never been out of the engine, judging by how reluctant it was about being removed,) and what I found makes me wonder how the engine runs as good as it does. The vacuum advance and or the breaker plate is stuck, all the metal surfaces are covered with oxidation and the insulation on the wires is melted and or bubbled up and distorted from over heating. I has obviously had a rough life. There is no way I am reinstalling that distributor in that condition. I can do a rebuild but am wondering about the availability of original replacement parts. Any suggestions on a source?
Xena, couple options᠁ There are aftermarket "small cap" HEI distributors for SBC made, that are close in size to the original distributor and cap, not like the huge GM OE HEI units. Search eBay or other for "small cap HEI."
Pertronix is an option as Tim (and others) have said - but if you go that route, look for their Ignitor II or Ignitor III, which are true electronic ignition sets, unlike the original Ignitor which just replaces the points, and consider one of their "matching" coils.
Also, since your stock distributor is very tired, and if you decide to go with Pertronix or stay with points, you may want to check eBay for the same distributor number as your current unit. If you can't find the number tag on the current distributor (which should circle the narrow portion of the distributor body just below the wider upper body), let us know the specifics of your engine - original model year, truck or passenger use and so on - and we can probably help ID what number should have been in that engine. Used SBC distributors are cheap, and with some searching, there are very good cores that show up all the time for about $40-45. May give you a better rebuild candidate, at least. Make sure you get a cast iron body distributor and not the later aluminum body, if that's what yours had, and you want to stay as close to OE as possible.
Anyway, some more things to consider... Happy Memorial Day/Weekend!
Thank you Dr Doug thats all good info. I did find the dist #, which is 1111150, I just got done confirming that the vacuum advance is working (couldn't find my vac pump so I used the vacuum circuit on my 93 cavalier wagon after removing the advance from the distributor) I did discover the coil to dist was shorting due to broken / burned insulation, so i removed it and am now wondering if I will find the correct wire to fit it. I am pretty sure I can reuse the OEM brass connectors. I will however be checking Ebay for the small cap HEI units, just to be able to consider all options. I am thinking a spare dist and coil is not a bad thing to have in the truck when i am 20 miles away from the closest asphalt and my ignition fails. Beem there done that, didn't enjoy it then and wouldn't enjoy it now....
Thanks again for your input. Have a Great Weekend! Xena
You might consider contacting pat mason at mason racing ignitions. Pat was vertex magneto’s head engineer when vertex was in blue bell, Pennsylvania. He builds, rebuilds, repairs and restores every kind of ignition you can think of. He is quiet, knows what he is doing, does excellent work, fair prices, and his shop is immaculate. The first time I used him I could not believe how neat and organized. His shop was a veritable whose who of vintage ignitions. He may very well have some options for you.
Call, don’t email him, it’s old school. That is pat on the left and my son on the right last summer after pat re did my decades old 235/261 Chevy vertex that I had not run since the middle 90s. Pat serviced it all up, works perfect.
The wire from distributor to coil isn't anything special. It's 18 gauge, black insulated, stranded copper wire, that feeds through a grommet in the distributor body. I just looked at a spare (cast iron) distributor in my shop that came from an early '60's 327. Your 283 is probably similar. If the grommet needs to be replaced, they are readily available and inexpensive. A quick search on eBay brought up a couple different styles, depending on the model year. Some wire, terminals, maybe a new grommet, and you should be back in business!
I appreciate all the info and feedback from you all. Thank you.
Just to update, I have decided to keep the truck original. I have found an OEM re-manufactured Delco Remy distributor on Amazon of all places and, amazingly to me, found an NOS Delco Remy distributor lead wire on eBay (GM Part #1942518, D-1203). My plan is to have the extra coil and distributor along with a distributor wrench in the truck at all times which will, in all likelihood, prevent me from ever having to use them. However, peace of mind is priceless. All told, the price of the distributor, Delco wires and coil, and distributor lead was about $120, which I consider money well spent.
Now I can move on to trying to figure out why the rear passenger corner of my K20 bed is 1 1/2" inches lower than the other three corners.....
So, the new distributor, wires and coil are installed and the engine sounds mighty fine. There is one issue that has made the project not quite finished though.
The primary resistor wire for the run circuit is apparently nowhere to be found in the truck. A former owner wired the coil for a full 12VDC from the starter by moving the wire from the start post to the run post; I put it back that way just to confirm the operation of the new distributor, but don't want to run it that way for too long. I am thinking that at least partially explains the melted wire insulation both inside and outside of the old distributor. Installing a ballast resistor is no big deal but I would prefer to keep the truck original by not screwing a ballast resistor to the firewall.
I am having no luck finding a replacement for the original resistor wire. Does anyone know of a source for that wire?
Xena, it's a '53 truck with a newer engine, if I'm following your thread correctly? The '53 would have been 6V, so no resistor wire or ballast resistor was required or used. You can either add a ballast resistor or change the coil for one with an internal resistor, if you don't want the resistor visible.
It is actually a '66 K20 with a power pak 283 in it. it should have the 12vdc wire connected to the start post of the starter to provide 12v for easier starting and the resistor lead from the ignition switch to the run post of the starter to provide lower volt.age to the coil while running.
I am hoping to avoid a visible ballast resistor in favor of an almost invisible length of resistor wire, but cant seem to find it. i was just going through a Blue Streak ignition catalog from 1972 and don't even see it listed.....
Hello All, After putting the pertronix electronic ignition module in my existing distributor. Idles great but falls on its face at acceleration. I have tried just about everything I can think of even callibg thier help line. He gave me a couple of things to try but still no go. Maybe I should have a real mechanic look at it. Hmmmmmmmm
I have used Petronix in several vehicles until my 51 with a 228/ 12 volt. After installing the unit, the truck backfires on deceleration with a load,(downhill), and has a slight miss/pop when idling. The truck gets horrible mileage ( Which may be normal) A local shop said I had some weak valve springs and I therefore had the head rebuilt. Guess what? Only a slight improvement!
Now, I am preparing to remove the Petronix and replace the points and condenser. But first, I had to locate a new distributor because the shop that installed the Petronix threw away the distributor base plate that the points are attached to.
Now, I will wait and see if there is an improvement with replacing the points.
Try Ebay- - - -there are usually several stovebolt distributors listed there at reasonable prices. Other than possibly ending up with the wrong part number stamped on the breaker plate, just about any 216 or 235 distributor should be a suitable donor. Drop me a PM- - - -I believe I've got a spare breaker plate stashed away from a distributor with a broken housing. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I am hoping to avoid a visible ballast resistor in favor of an almost invisible length of resistor wire, but cant seem to find it. i was just going through a Blue Streak ignition catalog from 1972 and don't even see it listed.....
To get the right voltage drop from a piece of nichrome wire, the wire needs to be about 10 feet long. The wire from the ignition switch to the coil on the mid-1970's GM vehicles actually doubled back on itself inside the wire harness to get enough length for the proper voltage to the coil. The right wire also has heat-resistant fiberglass insulation. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I am hoping to avoid a visible ballast resistor in favor of an almost invisible length of resistor wire, but cant seem to find it. i was just going through a Blue Streak ignition catalog from 1972 and don't even see it listed.....
Another way to make the resistor "invisible" (well almost) is to install it under the dash near the ignition switch. Probably only you will ever see it. The rest of the wire to the distributor can be standard copper wire.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
That ceramic-shielded resistor needs good ventilation to keep it from overheating. That's why it was mounted on the firewall in most applications, to put it in the air blast from the fan and also air circulation under the hood. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
