The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop 235 distributers

I have 54 235 in my 49. It still has the old turning body vac advance dizzy.
I’m looking for a recomendation for a basic mechanical advance non HEI style dizzy. In the end it will just be an oil pump drive that distributes spark and locates the pertronics.

Word of advice from someone who has been there. STAY AWAY FROM PERTRONICS ignition systems. If you want original looking electronic distributor buy Langdons. JMO

Why? I’ve had good luck with them for years.

If you don't want the housing to move, just don't connect the vacuum line, or plug the line with a lead BB. Then all you'll have is the mechanical advance, which won't be enough for good gas mileage. The people who designed the original advance system weren't backwoods rubes who just fell off a turnip truck.

There are two types of Pertronix systems- - - -the ones that have failed, and the ones that are going to. I'm 75, and a little crippled up from a motorcycle wreck, but I think I could outrun anybody who tries to GIVE me a Pertronix ignition! I'm in the process of modifying a stovebolt distributor to use an OEM general Motors reluctor and pickup coil, which will trigger a remotely-mounted GM module on a heat sink. Untold millions of those systems have worked well for nearly 50 years, with a very low failure rate. They're also "idiot proof"- - - - -no current flows anywhere, even if the ignition switch is left on accidentally, until the module senses a signal from the reluctor indicating the distributor is turning.
Jerry

Simple...... I haven’t.

My Langdon’s distributor has also been very good. X2 on this one.

Can a mod move this to hi-po

If all you are looking to do is eliminate the vacuum advance, and don’t want the vacuum canister, cut off the canister, spot weld the two pieces of the octane selector plate and the advance slider together, then dress it down all nice and smooth. Now you have just a clamp arrangement (bolt the selector to the block and clamp distributor, you can still adjust the distributor for some initial timing) and the mechanical advance will provide something usually in the 12-14 distributor degree advance (24-28 degrees at the motor at full advance). Not a great set up for a lot of street driving but workable for a race motor.

On the other hand, if you are looking to have the Petronix act as a trigger for say a computer controlled spark, that is one way to use the 235 distributor with just mechanical advance. If that is the direction you are going, I would love to hear how you are going about it. Be nice to see something new in 235 ignitions.

Winner!
All I need is a sensor platform for the ecu, an oil pump drive and a distribution point for the spark. I’d go to a Ford EDIS coil pack but thats not “in keeping” with the look.

Well, you have my attention sir! I hope you will consider posting your progress as you go along. It’s a terrific idea!

I’m gonna grab this and have a look. It might be a good base to work from. If not, it’s prime returnable!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0184JMQNW

Pat, if you check that P/N 84-1609 on the Cardone website, it's an offshore manufactured, standard replacement, point-type distributor. It may still be OK for your project, but it is not set up for HEI as it comes, regardless of what Amazon "thinks." Cardone 84-1609.

Looking forward to hearing more about how your project progresses.

Doug

Yup, exactY what I hope it is. I do not want HEI.

AwDang Get a GM v-6 HEI distributor,make it look like the one you took out. Once you get real ignition you'll never go back,use one that is not computer controlled for a simple installation. Some of them are too big in diameter.

Another electronic whizbang system engineered by R. Goldberg and M. Maus! Good luck!
Jerry

Wow!

AwDang,

I’m along for the ride, please keep us posted on your progress. Look forward to learning something new.

Will this setup require a crank trigger?

No crank sensor, the trigger is the Pertronics in the dummy distributer.

AwDang, you gotta have thick skin to hang with the old dawgs. What you are trying is different and some don’t like different. Might have helped or maybe not, to have described what you are trying to do in your first post. I’ll second your request to move this entire thread to HiPo Forum.

Mama always taught me, if ya got noth’n good to say, keep your trap shut!
I’ve already pm’d a mod to move it.

I'm all for eliminating points. I was making a living changing points and condensers every 10K miles when some of the "experts" who post here were still filling their Pampers, or possibly long before that. Using a Pertronix as a trigger is leaning on a weak reed, however. Both GM and Chrysler have 6 cylinder pickup coil and reluctor trigger systems that are far more reliable (and less expensive) than some fragile setup like Pertronix, plus those have close to 50 years of successful operation on millions of vehicles. Either trigger assembly is easily adaptable to the stovebolt distributor by anyone with some basic machining skills and enough of an open mind to try.
Jerry

Now we can speak openly about mods that ARE NOT ORIGINAL. Thank you mods.

My experience with Pertronics since the late 80’s has been a good experience. Maybe their quality is slipping, don’t know. YesI know it’s possible to trigger coils in several different ways. But as stated, i want to use a stock appearing distributer. Too many heads would explode if I made a new side cover with LS coil mounts!

This is my tinkering and my fun. You’re welcome to your opinion, but I’m going to use the parts I have on hand for the first revision. Will it need refinement? Probably.

"Measure it with a micrometer- - - -mark it with chalk- - - - -cut it off with an ax!" Your choice of a trigger device is fundamentally flawed, unless you're willing to do some major internal modifications to the distributor itself. The manufacturing processes used to make an item that was meant to last maybe 10 years- - - - -60+ years ago- - - -don't lend themselves to working well with modern electronic components.

Since it's becoming painfully apparent that any advice I offer is going to be rejected, I'll back out of this discussion and leave you to repeat the same mistakes I made a few decades ago when I thought I knew everything. Good luck!
Jerry

Thanks for stopping by

I used to be a big fan of Pertronix in my 235. The engine ran great, just like one does with a brand new set of points set at the exact point gap.
Then one morning I go out to start it up. No go. I opened the hood and saw that the top of the coil had melted and all of the oil drained out.
I checked to see if I had left the key on. Nope the key wasn't in the ignition. Problem is, the foreign made ignition switch I recently installed did not reach the off position completely before the key could be removed, allowing it to be on without the key in.
I bought a new coil and tried to start it. No go. Pertronix fried from the ignition being left on, but not before it melted the coil.

Moral of the story is that I consider myself to be very fortunate that my truck did not burn to the ground for something as simple as leaving the ignition on. Can the same thing happen with points? I don't know. It does not happen with HEI.

Would you mind explaining how a bad ignition switch is the fault of the Pertronics?
I’m sure HEI was great, in the 80’s......we’ve mored past that and 3D timing control based on rpm, tps and load make spark tuning so much more accurate.

I was just on the local craigslist site and saw an ad for a Pertronics distributor for $25. The guy said it had died within 4 months of install and got it warrantied by Pertronics, then the module died on that one withing another 2 months. He even still had the box. Kind of reinforces why the other guys are saying to avoid Pertronics.

O
Here’s a couple truisms of the internet
Whiners are the loudest
Only negative experiences are shared
Luddites like to recruit....


In The Pertronics failures presented only 1 has stated it was an operator/ external error. No one has stated what condition their distributer and/or coil were in at the time of install. None state the condition / age of their wiring. None state their voltage system.

Get over the hate for Pertronics, I’m not listening and you’re wasting your time. I’m sure Hotrod Lincoln has room for you in the special clubhouse. Isn’t the entry token a set of points and condenser, or is it a main jet?

PS, there are Pertronics success stories around here if you read enough old posts.

We're all waiting with bated breath for the story of your success- - - - -assuming it ever happens!
Jerry

Good luck, AwDang,

I had no problems with a 6V Pertronix unit. I ran a clean/good ground wire from the block to the distributor clamp. I always carried an another distributor tested/set with points (in fear of the possible disasters posted here) - I never needed it.

However, I chickened-out, and I switched back to regular 6v points/condenser.

Let us know on your year-by-year experience.

Members here have no problem switching to 12 electronics-gizmos.

I run an MSD ignition triggered by the original distributor with vacuum advance and mechanical advance and using the original points. Except for the red box on the firewall the ignition looks totally stock. I disconnected the condenser and tucked the wire out of the way. I keep the original wire from the coil to the distributor in the glovebox in case something goes wrong with the MSD unit (like the dreaded EMP). Nothing has gone wrong in nearly 20 years. The sun hasn't exploded, the Russians haven't sent anything to take out the electrical grid so all is well.

There are a few drawbacks with this setup, however. One is that if the truck sits for a couple of months in the rain on the wet side of the mountains the points will corrode resulting in a no-start condition. That requires 2 swipes with the point file I keep in the glovebox and a dry cloth to wipe out the dist. cap. Another is that even though the points don't arc and burn over time, you have to remember to grease the rubbing block every so often. A third is that if you run too large a plug gap or don't change the plugs forever, the insulation on the plug wires will arc through and begin to short out on anything nearby, including the coil housing, always when you're in the most remote part of the Navajo Nation in Arizona (or maybe it was New Mexico) and it's Sunday. A forth is don't grab a plug wire with the ignition on for any reason. The shock can be lethal.

Why?
That seems to fall under the operator / external failure mode

Those old MSD bricks were great, in their day. But time and technology have moved on. Seems like you did a good job at maximizing what you have. But I’m starting from scratch, so the old school tech just doesn’t work for me.

I do not suggest that a bad ignition switch, nor an ignition switch accidentally left on is actually a fault of Pertronix. I was simply relaying to you that if either of those should happen with a Pertronix, your truck might burn to the ground.
Reading you posts in this thread, you seem to have everything under control and your mind made up prior to even starting this thread, thus requiring no more input from me. Wish granted. I have better things to do anyway. Best of luck to you.

I just watched that short clip on Youtube ... LOL!!!

Jerry, It would be an honor to meet you someday sir!

I’ve had the pleasure David I can just visualise that scene in real life words might be a bit more colourful L ol

OK. That's enough. I deleted AwDang's last post and Jerry's last post. Go find a place to cool down and come back when you can behave like adults. This thread is now closed. Any further outbursts will result in suspensions for cooling off periods. You both know better.

I'm just going to unlock this thread long enough to toss in my two cents (um, because I can )

I've installed two Pertronix and had zero issues: one in my '65 GMC 1.5-Ton with the 305 V6 engine; and the other in my Dodge M-37 that was a 24-volt system. Drove both for years w/o any problems.

I have no idea if either of the new owners of those trucks have had issues since.

BUT FWIW (Pat ) .... I am running original ignition set up (actually, the dizzy et al from my 216) on the '59 261 I have in my '49 now (and still on 6 volts) ... Hmmm, which, now that I think about it, is '30's tech in a '40's truck. Works great. I feel no need to change anything. I agree with Jerry -- Those guys back in the '30's and '40's weren't entirely dim

Jus sayin'

Ok, now back to jail with you all.