The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Old Trucks for Towing

Hello Everyone!

I am a writer and currently writing a book where one of the characters is going to get an old truck that they will be restoring/rebuilding. The truck will be used as an every day vehicle going to and from school. It will also occasionally be used on a working horse ranch. The truck needs to be able to haul a 3 horse trailer like this one. Instead of having a new truck, I want to have the character get an old truck. The two I am looking at is a 1953 Chevy 3100 or a 1967 Ford F100 Ranger. Now admittedly I don't know a LOT about cars so I'll be doing a LOT of research which is why I am coming to y'all. You know far more about this than I do. So I have a few questions.

1) Are either one of those two trucks better for pulling a 3-horse trailer? I am leaning towards the 53 but I don't know if it could handle the weight.

2) Assuming I could find a truck that was in reasonable condition (could be driven as is but needs some work) what would be a decent timeline and price range for a restoration? This is a work of fiction so it doesn't have to be 100% accurate. I just need a window to work with.

3) What are some upgrades that I would want to do for safety or convenience.

I know this may not be the type of question you normally get but any help that you could give would be greatly appreciated!

Neither of the pickups you mention will be adequate, in stock form, to haul that trailer.

Welcome. Neither of the trucks you mention should be used to pull a 3 horse trailer. You need to upgrade your research to 3/4 or 1 ton models. The Chevy 3600 or 3800 or GMC equivalent would do the job. Since this is a GM truck site the Ford shouldn’t even be included in the discussion. If starting with a mechanically sound fairly rust free truck your restoration timeline would be 6 months to a year for a good all round mechanic. Budget not including original purchase price of the truck would be $5000 to $25000 depending on the level of restoration and amount of work you could do yourself. Upgrades for safety and convenience could include disc power brake conversion, seat belts, power steering and of course air conditioning. Engine and suspension upgrades raise the cost significantly.
Good luck on your imaginary journey.

Concur with Tiny. I used to haul horses professionally and I wouldn't touch that trailer with anything less than a modern 1.5-ton diesel dually (like a Ford F-450/550 or a Ram 4500/5500. An antique 1/2-ton would require so much upgrade and fabrication/modification as to make the project not realistic.

The trucks you are considering would be better suited for something like this: 2-horse straight load bumper pull.

A somewhat popular project is to take a '50's vintage Cab Over truck and either put the sheet metal on a more modern chassis (like I suggested above) or just upgrade the original one with a modern diesel, transmission and real axle suitable for what you are contemplating for your story. Something like this

Check out our Gallery Pages. We have a few like that in here, too, for ideas.

Thanks for stopping by!

A writer .... Cool!!!
John (retired PJ)

You do not want the "tail" to "wag" the dog and you want to be able to stop the dog.

Hy MarkElias, if the focus of your story is building/rebuilding a truck to tow that large horse trailer, then as the others have suggested your two candidates are far too small. We have horses and we have a three horse trailer, not as large as the one you posted a link to. If I was going to restore one of my old trucks to tow the trailer in your link, I would not start with anything smaller than a one ton from 1955 and newer. There are so many safety considerations with such a setup and trying to marry a modern heavy trailer to an old truck would require upgrading the truck to the point that the money spent would allow one to purchase a much newer and better equipped truck in its stock form. I don't mean to stick a pin in your balloon, but if you want a believable story it will require a rethink, after all you did ask for our opinion.

That is a BIG trailer.

Being respectful of your story line, at the least a 70's 1 ton.

Considerations to your story though - why would someone that has such a nice trailer (that costs a bunch of money) be restoring/rebuilding an old derelict truck? Based on the very limited information about the story I am inclined to suggest a more vintage/size appropriate trailer.

I think you could go a bit bigger trailer than Johns suggestion above, especially with the newer Ford.

https://i.redd.it/f4ake4m7hyo71.jpg

Ditto to all the above. If you want your fictional hero to drive something unique, start with a modern tow vehicle- - - -maybe a heavy duty Ram dually with a Cummins turbo Diesel, and graft some vintage sheet metal onto the frame. You will have adequate power for pulling that big rig and more importantly, suspension, steering, and brakes capable of making it handle and stopping it. Personally, I'd choose one of the midsize Navistar rigs as a starting point. Purchasing a suitable donor vehicle and modifying it to look like a vintage rig will probably get into the $50K range at a minimum- - - - -probably considerably more, unless you're capable of doing all the modifications yourself. Some stovebolters have that amount invested in a resto-mod of a 1/2 ton pickup.
Jerry

No way would I tow that trailer, with three horses in it, with a half ton. Especially an older/antique one. Just because you *can* doesn't mean you *should.*

Let's do the math:

The trailer itself weighs at least 1500 to 2,000 lbs. Three horses (assume Quarter Horses, yes?) at (on average for a decent quarter) 1,000 lbs each is another 3000 lbs. Throw in some tack, supplies and other miscellaneous and all told, you're up to about 5-6,000 lbs. Some of the new 1/2-tons are safe with that, but not an antique one without significant modifications. 1st time someone brake checks you on a wet hill and you are going to have a really bad day.

I'm not sure I would feel comfortable towing *anything* with a truck smaller than a 3/4-ton rating.

My wife and I made a 2500+ mile tow from California to Tennessee in 1980, with everything we could haul with us. She drove a 59 Suburban that was loaded up to the point there was barely room for her in the driver's seat, and pulled a 72 Datsun station wagon on a tow bar that was loaded clear to the roof. The Burb ran a Chevy 307 V8, a SM-420 4 speed, and a 3/4 ton Dana 60 rear axle with 3.73 gears. She had no trouble at all other than dealing with a drafty cab, a poorly performing heater, and January weather.

I drove a different rig- - - - - a 1970 Cadillac Fleetwood, towing an 18 foot 3-axle backhoe trailer with a 6 foot tall plywood box built on it, loaded to the roof with furniture, household goods, and a big chest-type freezer full of food and 10 pounds of dry ice. The Cadillac and trailer scaled at 16,700 pounds when we had to stop and purchase an over-wide permit in Arizona. The Caddy got 5 miles a gallon and the Burb got 10- - - -drive 100 miles and fill up both vehicles! The trip still cost less than renting a big U-Haul truck and trailer would have! BTW the freezer did its job- - - -the food was still well frozen after a week on the road. We left the power cord sticking out of the back of the trailer and plugged it in every night with an extension cord to our motel room.
Jerry

Thank you all for your feedback and insight. I knew coming to a place like this would point me in the direction I needed to go. I fully admit that I am NOT a car guy. They fascinate me but I just don't know what I'm doing with them so my original choices are based purely on a body style that I like. I want the character to do a restoration/rebuild for story purposes. It's something he is going to be working on with his father.

The horses that he's hauling would be friesians which are light draft horses that come in at 1,200 - 1,400 pounds. So I've updated my target truck to perhaps a Chevy 3800. John, you had a '49 Chevy 3804 listed in your signature. Would something like this work? It's a 1-ton. I'd also have them do some of the upgrades that Justhorsenround suggested like disc brakes. Money isn't so much an issue. As a writer (since this is fiction) I can figure out how to make that work. I just want to make sure that what they are doing is mechanically sound and believable.

Back when that truck was new it was quite capable of towing a period correct 3 horse trailer. 45 mph was the top speed and folks weren’t in such a rush. Upgrading the 216 to a more powerful 261 would be a common modification done in the 60s and 70s. If your plan is for an old truck pulling a modern 3 horse trailer be prepared for extensive modifications to the power train, suspension and brakes.

As long as you put that 3800 sheet metal on a modern Diesel powered chassis with power steering, power disc brakes, and 2 ton + suspension, you'll have rig that your readers with any sort of mechanical knowledge would find acceptable. Pulling that horse limousine with a stock-frame 1 ton pickup from the 1950's will be approximately as believable as having Snoopy's Sopwith Camel win a dogfight with an F-15!

I'd also suggest that you attend a few equestrian events in your area and take a look at what some of the horsey folks are using as tow rigs for similar trailers. I think you'll find that even suggesting that a 70 year old truck, regardless of modifications, would be up to the task would require a reader to take a deep dive into Fantasyland.
Jerry

Mark, as you've acknowledged a lot of good advice has been shared. My two cents; wife pulls a light weight 3 horse living quarters trailer (TrailsWest) with a new generation 400HP Ram 2500. Her trailer's normal towing weight is 10 to 12K. I wouldn't want to pull anymore on a regular basis.

Your proposed trailer, loaded with horses and tack and water and all the other items that'd be in the living quarters is going to come in around 20K. That's a lot.

If I were going to pull that with some kind of vintage truck, it'd be a old vintage class 8 truck. Think old Peterbuilt or Mack. In cowboy country it's not at all unusual to see a 18 wheeler truck pulling big horse trailers. Something like this would really be cool!

Good Luck,

RonR

I like the idea of the 1 ton truck posted above.

...BUT... the trailer goals NEED to change significantly. A truck like the OP has in mind needs a much smaller period correct three horse.

This is all make believe anyways, but the trailer originally posted has no chance with anything in front of it like posted. The modifications needed to make the vintage truck match that trailer put the character in the position of being a car guy rather than a horse guy. Unlikely to be talented enough to pull off both successfully enough to be story worthy.

That trailer and truck are at too opposite ends of the spectrum, I think bring the truck up and trailer back are a reasonable approach. Like a late 70's crew cab dually, big 454 engine with a similar vintage trailer.

I like my horsepower with an ignition switch- - - - -and I don't have to feed it if I choose not to drive it for a month or two!
LOL!
One thing that should definitely be considered is the weight disparity between the trailer and the tow vehicle. Getting a heavy load moving is just a matter of putting enough power to the ground to overcome the rolling resistance. Once in motion, steering, and especially stopping must be factored into the equation. I've been in some pretty hairy situations when a heavy trailer started to push my undersized tow rig around when I encountered a tight downhill turn on slippery pavement. "Jacknife" is a term you don't need to get familiar with! If the roads were all straight and level and the weather was always warm and sunny, we could get by with a lot different equipment. The trick is to get set up for the worst possible conditions, and the good ones will be a pleasure to handle. "Plan for the worst- - - -hope for the best!"
Jerry

Another thought to consider is weight/suspension disparity. A period semi truck would be able to handle a trailer, however a lightly loaded semi with stock suspension will give a lot of shock loading to the trailer hitch. There are air suspension hitches that give a softer ride to the hitch.

Ed

Having driven a lightly loaded or bobtail tractor for a lot of miles, another factor to be considered is the shock loading to the driver's spinal column. Better include an air ride seat if you go that route! The old joke used to be that a boil on a trucker's butt is a "Brain Tumor"!
Jerry

We need to remember this project is NOT REAL, it is part of the plot on a purely fictional novel. It’s not going to be built in real life. The author is trying to add some nostalgic interest. The cautions about safety are not really necessary. All the suggestions to buy a late model truck or doing diesel and chassis swaps is really a moot point. I finally looked at the trailer in his link. That is not a 3 horse trailer, it’s a rolling condominium. No stock original truck from the 50s should be pulling that trailer. Since the op didn’t tell us the plot I suppose the novel is set in present day and the old truck thing is a fantasy of the main character, maybe to honor a grandfather. Again, not real!

You are correct on everything you just said! The novel is set in modern day. To make the long story short, the idea behind the novel is that it's a coming of age story about a young teenage boy who overcomes severe depression & a suicide attempt. He uses horses as a way to do that. He begins training them for liberty shows. The idea for the classic truck in the 50's was a way to connect him to his grandfather. I'd also considered something in the 70's as a way to connect him to his father. I wanted something for them to restore/rebuild as a way to strengthen his relationship with his father. I won't go too in depth with the truck simply because I fully admit that I don't have the knowledge needed to do it justice, but I did want whatever I wrote to be technically correct. Seems like what I wanted in a truck and what I wanted in a horse trailer are two different things. So now I'm looking at two options.

1) Stick with the classic 50's truck that I originally wanted but change the trailer to a much smaller 2 horse trailer

2) Keep the much larger trailer but change my plans to a much more modern truck like a Silverado 3500 HD.

Thank you all again for your insights. It has been GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks for clearing things up Mark. Maybe do the 50s truck and a 50s one horse trailer for local shows. That combo was very prevalent back in the day. Maybe Grandpa was a rodeo regular.

certainly agree with the above replys of needing to be a 3/4 to 1 ton to be realistically capable. On the other hand as a former teacher in out state Nebraska, I have seen this story line in real life. The sixteen year old obtaining the old hand me down farm/ranch truck and using the shop and welding classes along with the teachers knowlege and all the buddies to help get it usable. Pride, perseverance, hard work, some family money thrown at it and work in the quanset building shop on the farm with dad, gramps and the brothers to finish the project. Happened all the time. If not that it was the old Johnny popper that had been rusting down on the back forty coming back to life with paint and restored engine! Projects like this was the best practical learning experiences any farm kid could ever ask for. Great story...go for it.

Hey Guys, a slow drive with a trailer to the county fair doesnt require a 80 mph capable highway urban cowboy, faux Cadillac loaded quad cab with a power tailgate and auto trailer backup capability that are everywhere today. Pickups have grown into trucks and have lost their personalities on the way.

Well if the story is going to be halfway believable. Im sure there were trucks in the 50s that pulled 3 horse trailers... Use that truck and trailer. Ha.

Martin is on to something ... Use the modern truck trailer combo for the horses but still restore Granpa's old farm truck they found under old hay at the back of the hay barn and that's what he drives to school, etc. Short of Jerry's recommendation about putting the sheet metal on a modern chassis and drive train, there isn't much (if anything) you could do realistically to my 3804 to make it capable of pulling the identified trailer in a safe and secure fashion in modern traffic and for longer hauls (i.e., it could move it empty around the farm yard but that's it.)

By the way, we have a family friend who, as a teenager, had to have dad take her horse to shows in an open U-Haul trailer because they could not afford to buy a horse trailer ... Any of you who have experienced the whole horse show thing know how crushingly embarassing that must have been for a teenaged girl... (OP ... You could use that as a minor incident ... it really happened. Ooooooh, a possible romantic interest ....)

Ed makes a good point. Go to any ATHS show and you see lots of camper and toy haulers that are needle nosed Petes. Reo's, KW's etc ... but they are all air bagged to do that. If Grandpa was a rancher, it is not inconceivable that there might be an old Class 8 truck lurking in a barn or out on the fenceline, etc. People like Grandpa (and me, actually) tend to develop a real fondness and even a bond with a heavy truck they've spent a lot of wheel time in and had adventures with. Where I work (parttime -- I'm *supposed* to be retired ), my boss keeps his first road tractor -- a short-nosed Ford 9000 or whatever it is ... I looked at it long enough to see the word "FORD" and all the rust. I pretty much lost interest in it after that ... ). It is SCRAP METAL but any time I suggest adding it to the load to go to the scrap dealer, he kinda gets mad at me and subjects me to stories about it ... . So I've quit bringing it up. I've developed a bond with the 359 Peterbilt I drive routinely. He bristles a bit when I call it *my* truck. We local 'Bolters have a great friend, Dan, who is a retired trucker. He restored his last OTR truck (a 359 Pete. 359 Pete's have a VERY loyal and devoted following. I'm one!) into a camper hauler. It's beautiful. It is also VERY airbagged so as not to shake the camper apart.

Anyway, the point being that in your story, the kid leans on the fence gate with his elbows, his face cupped in his hands (like all farmers/ranchers do when they have big pondering to do) ... looks at his ginormous horse trailer ... looks at the 1-ton truck ...frowns .... looks at the horse trailer ... frowns harder... Then notices Grandpa's derelict 359 in the fenceline (in a direct sight line beyond his 1-ton) ... cocks one eyebrow up .... looks at the horsetrailer again .... jerks his head up and stands erect ... an idea forms .... the dog at his feet looks at him, then looks at the pete, too, murmurs an almost imperceptible disapproving whine and walks off .... (Dogs know better ...)

Still, thanks to the OP for giving us this opportunity to spend lots of fictional $$$ on possible builds for your character. This is a fun exercise.

So .... I think where we stand is that the kid is going to end up with the condo on wheels, a late model cowboy cadillac (my vote is for a crew-cabbed Ram 4500 with the 5.7 Cummins and the Aisin 6-speed) and a killer resto of an AD 1-ton. Either the family is rich or that kid is going to learn a LOT about finance ...

Thanks,
John

John, you may have to meet up with the OP and collaborate on the story--or maybe ghost write it for him!

The 3800 idea isn't total fantasy. Bear with me for a drive into the past. In the 1960s I drove a 1960 F-7 Ford hay truck with a stoop out over the cab over the Cascade mountains too many times to count when what is now I-90 was mostly US10; that is to say lot's of 2-lane road. It wasn't until the truck was stacked 7-high with hay and pulling a 4-horse trailer loaded with feed bags that it felt fully loaded. It had a 332 cubic inch Lincoln V-8 truck engine with a five speed and a 2-speed axle. No, it wasn't fast on the 7% grades but then neither was anything else in those days.

Fast forward to 2015. I bought a 30 foot Avion travel trailer in Western Montana and towed it over hill and dale across US2, through Spokane, past Grand Coolie Dam and up into the Methow Valley to it's new home. The tow vehicle was a 51 Chev 3800 pickup. The trailer weighed ~8,000 pounds. The pickup is powered by a 235 I6, slightly hopped up and has a 3-speed Brownie behind the stock 4-speed. It has the RPO (Regular Production Option) power brake booster and the RPO auxillary spring pack. On this trip we had no trouble maintaining highway speed of 55MPH on the flats and maybe 30MPH on the 6-7% grades. We had no overheated brakes either. Just gear down and take it easy like in the old days before Jake brakes. On this trip the gross weight was 13,000 plus a little. We had little trouble staying ahead of the loaded log trucks on the hills. It's about 10MPH faster than the tankers I drove over the same route only 10 years ago. Why do you have to be the first one to the top of the hill on the way to the rodeo or horse show?

If one were to add a 261 Chevrolet I6 and single 19.5 commercial tires on the rear the truck it could gross 10,700 on the truck and pull whatever you could get rolling that has electric brakes. I have grossed 15,000 with this rig pulling a dump trailer loaded with gravel.

All this is to say that a 3800 with a few modifications should have no trouble pulling a horse trailer of, say, 9,000 lbs. with a few pounds left over for tack. As for status, our rig pulling the Avion or with the Avion truck-camper is the hit of every RV park we have stayed in. Fuel stops take an extra 10 minutes to chat with some curious traveler.

Would love to see a picture of HRL`s caravan from California to Tennessee.....reminds me of some loads I`ve hauled that weren't that pretty!

Here's a beautiful 3800 with a big Avion camper gassing up in St. Mary, Montana after coming over Logan Pass on Going-to-the-Sun Highway in Glacier Natl Park. Little did I know at the time that this was 1Ton Tommy!

Wally, that's one fine rig. I wonder if the deflector flap under the front bumper is to help deflect snow or is it more about aerodynamics. REALLY hard to imagine the later.

RonR

Rich.... oh no, no no no no. I'm retired from all that. We even sold the Selectric III and the Underwood 25. Ideas he can have for free, use all he wants and freely put his name to anything he wants. Besides, I enjoyed being an editor and a writing coach much more than I ever did being a writer.

Tommy ... no doubt a memorable adventure. However ... Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you *should.* Especially in repetition.

In 1976, I went with my dad in our Marina truck (a 1975 Dodge 3/4-ton ClubCab 4x4 pickup -- they were badged as "Powerwagons" in Canada) on a trip to Montreal (about 80 miles from our Marina) to pick up a new C&C sailboat for a customer and trailer it back to our place (on a 32-mile lake in Quebec). We only had our big two-axle boat trailer with rollers, not a sailboat trailer. Dad convinced the yard manager at C&C to lower the boat, in its cradle, onto our boat trailer. Yes, it was as precarious as it sounds. But as Mike Roache often says, "If you don't have a dog, you hunt with the cat." We had about 60 miles to go on a 4-lane divided highway (the Eastern Townships Autoroute). The good news has that being in the St. Lawrence Valley, the whole route was as flat as a pool table. The only hill was the last quarter of a mile going down into our place.

But ... we had a big scary bridge to contend with -- the Jacques Cartier Bridge over the St. Lawrence Seaway. 341 ft above the river. Between the crosswind and the bridge joints making the trailer wag the truck a bit, the boat cradle shifted about halfway across the bridge and came to about a 15 degree list to one side. It was scary. Dad didn't slow down or look, he just kept going. What were we going to be able to do about it, anyway??? But if the boat decided to go to the river, it was most likely going to take us with it as it probably outweighed the truck. He told me to tell him if any else bad happened back there. Nothing did and we made it home. It was a VERY long ride to the far side of the bridge, though. Yes, we got 'er dun. But it was a VERY BAD IDEA.

Sometimes plain old bad luck, not improper equipment, gets involved in "extreme pucker factor" situations. Early one morning I got a call to fire up the big wrecker and do a recovery a few miles south on I-65 from the towing and recovery service I was managing at the time. A big 3 axle tractor sort of like John's Pete was towing a very short container trailer, about the same length as the tow rig. For some reason which wasn't fully explained, the tractor and trailer had done a 180 degree turn, and backed into the median of the interstate. How it didn't roll over is also a mystery. A light rain had been falling for a couple of days, and the rig was buried in the mud about halfway to the hubs on both the tractor and the trailer. The northbound lane of the interstate got closed by the highway patrol for an hour or so while we winched the rig back onto the pavement, with traffic routed onto surface roads for one exit. The rougher the weather got, the busier that business got! Ice and snow really made things interesting!
Jerry

I am sorry, I did not read all the comments, that said, How about the boy finding an old farm truck in a field, and getting it fairly cheap. (That is what I did with my 55 and 58 Viking 60 2-ton trucks).

Like John mentioned above about a "bad idea" it reminds me of pulling my 58 2-ton home with my 1/2 ton Suburban. Suburban weighed 5500#, the 58 viking, 9,000#, total with truck and trailer 17,340#. Did it go, yes. Did it stop, well, yes, but not real nice (the brake on one wheel on the trailer grabbed sooner than the others!) was it a long ride? YUP! I would not do that on a regular basis at all! Horses would have been traumatized to say the least!

I pull my 35' vintage trailer with the 58.It has a newer V-8 in it. (1967 327). I pulled my trailer home to Seattle from Montana yesterday with it (long story). Roads were compact snow and ice for the first 100 miles. Yes, the trailer is not as heavy as the 3 horse trailer in the first post, but as suggested, for the story, why not also find a vintage horse trailer to pull behind it?

That's 1Ton Tommy's one fine rig. I saw it, snapped the picture and continued up the pass. (I hope he's OK with me posting my pic.)

Wally, I'm happy to see it as others see it, dirt, bugs and all. Looks like is actually earns it's keep. The painted jerry can sprung a leak in Canyon Lands this April, leaking all my grey water out (PU), making red mud plaster all over the fender that I still haven't got off; so now it's got two OD ones.

That’s an awesome rig! C10 or C11?

I hope we didn't run off the OP ...

Aw Dang: Avion C11

John you didn't run me off. I've just been very busy with my real life job and I haven't had the chance to do any writing much less anymore research into what I want to do.

That being said I've done more research and spoken with a friend of mine who does rat rods and such. I read through all the suggestions y'all made and I've come up with 2 options that I would love to get some feedback on. Both options utilize a much smaller trailer instead of the rolling condominium from before. I'll be using a trailer like this.

https://www.logancoach.com/warmbloo...yZLenkY5pHnugAE8ruyIbjo4HqsFxmYDMgtNdOSc

I've also settled on a '54 3804 as the truck I'd like. It's a 1-ton which gives me options for it to be used around the farm/ranch. It'll also give the main character (again a 16 year old high school boy in the deep south circa 2015) some cool points. Now the options that I'd like your opinions on is this.

Option 1 - box the frame of the truck. Upgrade the springs, brakes, etc. Swap the motor for a 6bt cummins.

Option 2 - swap the frame for an S-10. This would be cheaper but the truck wouldn't be a 1-ton. This would also already come with the upgrades likes brakes.

As a writer I'm leaning towards Option 1 as I like the idea of him having use of the full 1-ton capacity, but I would very much like to hear your thoughts about this.

Mark, great choice on the truck. I'm a big fan of the little Cummins' engines. The 5.9 6BT only weighs about 300 lbs more than the original engine in your proposed truck. It'd have plenty of power and torque to spare. In the real world it'd be a bit of a challenge to actually do the conversion, although it's been done by members on this board and they may jump in with first hand experiences on the conversion.

Definitely go with Option 1 and the stock frame for a real working truck.

Consider a GMC 302 for the powerplant, it'd be a good option in the real world and again fit the old truck like a glove. Here's a conversation about 302s.

Good Luck,

RonR