Hey Guys, looking for information on a swapping a 235 for a 292 in a 42 1.5 dump truck. What are some of the changes that might have to be done. Understand 292 is a little longer and taller. Anyone have a line on a 292. Thanks
The 292 is a little longer, and taller than a 235. Also, be aware that it will have far too much torque to work well with the present "crash box" transmission your truck probably has, so you most likely need to do an upgrade on the transmission as well as the engine. That will involve fabricating crossmembers, motor mounts, clutch and throttle linkage, and a lot of other modifications. The fan and water pump will probably be too low on the radiator to do a good job of cooling the engine. The 292 will not bolt onto the 235 bellhousing, which probably has the pivot point for the current clutcn and brake pedals. You'll probably also need to fabricate a new driveshaft, as well. The project can be done with enough time, effort, and money, but it won't be anywhere near a bolt-in swap. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thanks Jerry, didn't consider Trans. Since the 235 is a 54 and not original to the truck a Trans upgrade would be fine. Fab work not a problem. Just looking to get more torque for hauling. Looked at some diesel possibilities, the only thing that would fit with out major mod would be a Detroit, cool sound but don't want to have to shift that much. Had a 292 in a 64 tool truck and it had a ton of torque. Thought this would give me the much needed torque with a more original look.
Since the 292 has the same bell housing bolt pattern as a Chevy V8, you'll have a pretty wide selection of transmissions, even some with an overdrive option. The SM-420 is an obvious choice, but there are also 5 and 6 speed medium duty truck units that would be more versatile. I think the T-5 would be a bit too flimsy for what you're trying to do, especially behind a high torque engine in a vehicle that's doing real truck stuff. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Would like to keep 4 speed with granny low, also need pto for dump. Truck has two speed axle. She's a worker, put 6 tons of gravel on her back. The old 235 moved it pretty good over some pretty good hills. Those old stove bolts can lug.
Does the shifter on your present transmission have a reverse lockout lever? It's possible it got an upgrade to a SM-420 when the later model 235 got installed. The old crash box is a very small, pretty flimsy transmission that's a nightmare to shift- - - -especially downshifts. Lots of double clutching involved! If you've got a 420 already, all you'll need is a V8 engine bellhousing and some fabrication to mate the 292 up to it. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Look into mating up a General Motors NV4500 5 speed to the 292- - - -granny gear, direct drive in 4th. and OD in 5th. plus a PTO access plate. Plenty of them out there, and they're not terribly expensive.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
This may seem off the wall but have you considered using the 300 Ford six? We put a 292 into a 57 Chevy pickup and a 300 Ford into a 56 GMC pickup. The 300 was a much easier swap and has a reputation of being bullet proof. There are conversion kits offered for the NV4500 to Ford bell housing.
Evan the hall monitor will be around soon to slap your wrists with his cat o' nine wet noodles- - - - -remember we're on a site where allegedly grown men get passionate about decades-old rusty hulks that have specific brand names! LOL! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Sorry, but no way would I put a Ford motor in my Chevrolet. Not that I am completely anti Ford, would like to have a model A truck. But still. Will look in to the 4500 Trans, that sounds interesting. Thanks
Why not? It's several orders of magnitude stronger than what you're running now- - - -plus it's synchronized. Try putting that crash box behind a Cummins Diesel in a Ram 3500- - - - -which runs a 4500 trans from the factory! Some of those rigs with a tuner chip onboard are turning out 500+ HP.
The Frankland quick change rear ends we ran in the dirt track cars behind 600 HP small block Chevy engines had ring and pinion gears designed to work with an 85 HP flathead Ford engine in a 1 ton truck from the late 1930's. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Just went off of GM specs for Trans. I agree has to be better than the one that is in it. Found a sm420 for sale has stamps L132 with a 1 under that, GM under that and the serial number 3813389. Anybody know what year that would be? Doesn't have pto but assume that can be added. Thanks
That big rectangular plate on a transmission is a pretty much standard PTO access regardless of the manufacturer. All sorts of PTO's can be adapted to that opening- - -single speed and direction, reversible, and a few other options depending on the intended purpose. A SM 420 has a non-synchronized granny gear and a direct drive 4th. gear- - - -good technology from the late 1940's, but a little obsolete these days. Rock crawlers love them because they're rugged and low geared. I'd much rather have 5 or 6 synchronized gears, given a choice between the 420 and something 50 years newer, particulartly where the availability of repair parts is concerned, Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Understand we're you are coming from Jerry. Would probably be a better trans but would be an obvious change. With the 420 it will pretty much give a stock look Not that too many people are going to see It, but for me, would like to see more of a stock look. Might help gas mileage but I don't really need it to go faster, 40 or 45 is fast enough. Front end and brake system are basically new but weren't build for speed as we all know lol.
Kinda like driving it with the "crash box". Lifters rattling, trans whining a d trying to get the rpms right double clutching. Exactly why I have it. Funny story, just rescued a dog from an 8x8 pen she had been in for 3 years. She road around a couple of days in the nice duramax and was liking it. Put her in the truck, she didn't what the heck was going on. Was crawling on my head and trying to break a window to get out. Felt bad for her but it was still pretty funny. Calmed down pretty quickly and ended up falling asleep.
The dog story reminded me of Sybil. I got her at 8 weeks old, and the first trip she went on was in my '65 C20. She rode on the seat and didn't look happy at all. Got to my parent's house and their three dogs came out to greet us and little Sybil climbed up my chest and up on top of my head. She was not having anything to do with those big dogs. Once she met everyone, she wouldn't leave them alone, especially Baron. Her and Baron were best buds after that, and she let him know it by chewing on him every moment she was awake...lol...
Shane
Shane's Toys... 2007 Forester XT Limited (2nd Owner) 1991 Cherokee Laredo (2nd Owner) 1981 Chevy 3/4 Ton Fleetside 8,600 Camper Special (3rd Owner) 1965 Chevy 3/4 Ton Fleetside (3rd Owner)
Hmmmm- - - -and the 292 isn't going to be an "obvious change"????? Graft the original shift handle on, with a phony lockout lever. Good luck! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
To the trained eye, to me the 235 is an obvious change still a straight 6. Attaching lockout and running rod through the floor isn't much of a challenge.
Didn't mean to step on any toes. Usually on WORK trucks function is more important than facade. Not many work trucks at car shows. Brand loyalty is fine for showin or cruisin but where the vehicle is ones lively hood brand loyalty to me is at the very bottom of the ladder. If engine is embarrassing keep the hood shut. Finally, good luck on the project and be sure to post finished pics.
Thanks Evan, no toes hurt here. It's a dump truck I use around the farm and to help neighbors. No one except me cares or is looking to close. It is rust free and is still and will remain in It's work clothes. Something you don't see driving around.
Can't seem to get the picture to copy or download. But this is how it is stamped just above plate were pto would attach
They look like "casting numbers" (not stamped numbers)...there should be a trans code STAMPED into the a flat machined surface (might need to wire brush to see it...could be on top of the trams case or rear face.
