The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Wheels: Current Options out there for a 4400

Hi, I have a '51 4400 Loadmaster. Just getting started with restoring this great old 137" fairly rust free body truck. My first priority are the tires/wheels. Contrary to the body and frame, my wheels seem fairly rusty and the process of talking to few specialized truck/tractor tire shops about the split rims and getting lectured about them has already worn me about 48 hours in (when I'm really read into the history/issues/videos combined with local stories I have heard). So I'm on the hunt for wheels. What are everyone's thoughts on the following plan: HUB PILOTED 22.5X8.25 10X285.75 BOLT PATTERN STEEL TRUCK TRAILER TANDEM DUAL STEEL WHEEL (these are on ebay sold by ebay seller Wheels Express Inc.). They are not the right bolt pattern. Another ebay seller Tire Shop Suppliers sells several different adaptors for bolt patterns and offers a 10 Lug | 10x7.25 to 10x285 | 22.5/24.5 Semi Wheel Adapters 1" Thick (For Front) which also take the wheel to a 5.25" center bore. Now I have a '51 so I know from the chart in the wheel center (thank you for pulling that together!) that my center on the '51 is 4.75. I imagine I'd have to then source/have spacers made to take the center to a 4.75" center and then repeat all of this for the rear dually wheels/tires. Overall, this seems like it will be a fairly substantial investment but the wheels themselves are affordable. I'm no expert on all of this but after reading and sourcing (and sourcing) this is the best I could come up with short of trying to restore the old wheels via blasting and painting or powder coating them presuming the rings etc are in good shape with nice clean edges (have no idea what they are like on the inside until they are eventually (and safely) removed. 22.5 wheels albeit from a '56 to '59 1 1/2 ton seem to be recommended I know so this tries to get there as I can't find any of those. Any help is appreciated. This wheel/tire situation to me seems like the biggest hurdle to owning and restoring these old trucks. Every recently restore one I have seen for sale like the one on Hemmings/flat bed seems to have restored original wheels. I do have a truck tire service coming over to look at them tomorrow to explore that option as well. If I can't figure these wheels/tires out I'll let you all know when the truck goes up on ebay! It's really too bad someone just doesn't have modern version of the originals produced via some sort of "group order" like a lot of clubs do with rare part needs. I bet a ton of big bolt owners would be interested in authentic looking but modern rims to fit these trucks and fill a niche.

Hy Dehartb, welcome, I hope you have read the "Wheels and Tires, what to do" sticky at the top of the Big Bolts forum on this board. You have already done a lot of research and you seem to understand what is required to make modern tubeless wheels fit on your truck. Some on here will advise against adapters, and if you are going to use your truck to carry the kind of loads it was designed to do, I can understand their apprehension. Wheels and tires are a major expense, add to that the 10 on 7.25" bolt pattern which would have to be adapted to use 20" or 22.5" wheels and tires. There are 19.5" wheels available with the correct bolt pattern, most think they look small on our trucks and you would still have to have spacers/adapters made for the center hole. Good luck with your search!

I think most if not all of the adapters to install 10 on 285.75mm bolt center adapters allow for a single only. The standard of the industry hub piloted wheel has between a 6 1/2 to 7 inch offset which probably won't clear your springs. I have turned some 1/4" spacers to run the 5.25 bore wheels on the old 4.75 hubs and it works quite well. Making reproduction wheels is not a simple matter like other reproduction parts, They have to be registered and marked with according to the DOT. During a time when regular productions wheels have long backorders would be a difficult time to get one of only a few wheel manufacturers to build wheels for 70 year old vehicles.

Thanks guys. I have had one shop look at my existing original wheels and they have advised they are probably not reparable due to heavy surface rust (impacting the locking ring, edges etc.). So, I'm down the path of getting new ones. I think I have found adapters to fit the dually wheels as well. Take a look at these wheels: (https://www.ebay.com/itm/203180838967) and these adapters. {https://www.ebay.com/itm/263692032445?hash=item3d654519bd:g:RU4AAOSwf95biXmU) if you have time. Do you think these could work? I don't follow the 6 1/2 to 7 offset and clearing springs issue can you explain more for a novice? The wheel itself has the look and while not original, would work. I have no interest hauling anything with the truck and would like to keep the origional wheels on it but may not be possible sadly so need to sort this out. I think if I can't sort it out, I'm going to have to sell the truck which is a shame.

I finally also found the Alcoa 19.5 wheels with the 7.25 bolt pattern. I may just get those - .5 of an inch difference in wheel size vs. the 20s isn't bad. I'd have to then get spacers made for them and ensure I can get the wheel in a dually. Is that all there is to it? https://buytruckwheels.com/products/19-5x6-hub-pilot-dual-10-hole-p-300-chevrolet-or-gmc-typical If not, this basically is the solution for a 4400 and need for new wheels if required. I know they will be slightly smaller but I thought it was having to go down to 19 vs. 19.5. To me 20 vs. 19.5 is nominal when it seems impossible to get 20s and a live with situation.

If you have a 7.25” on 10 bolt pattern, those wheels will not fit, those are for a semi. Use your hub diameter( spacers like Ken mentioned are easily made) number and pattern, diameter of mounting bolts as a guideline.

Be aware there two types(probably other obscure types) of mounting bolts- Budd type with a stud with a nut that centers the wheel called stud centered and Motor Rim and Wheel called hub centered that just use a bolt with or without washer. Be Best to determine type you have. They are not interchangeable, in general.

Ed

Offset is the measurement from the center of the wheel to the mounting face where it mounts on the drum. The wheels you have now are probably around 4 1/2" offset. Measure how close your tires are to the spring hangers now and see if you would have room for 2 to 2 1/2" closer to the suspension. Some of the adaptors on eBay state for single wheels only. I would contact the seller and tell them what your intentions are the ones that are for single wheels only probably can't be used because of the offset of standard wheel. There is someone else on this forum that bought some adaptors. But he is mounting super singles instead of duals.

Thanks guys I think our threads may have overlapped. On the wheels, I found a different option that is 19.5 x 7.25 10 lug pattern They are 5.25 diameter so I'll have to have spacers made. Apart from the bolts/nuts which I can sort out once I'm into the project, I am thinking these wheels would work if I can get them in a dually as well? https://buytruckwheels.com/products/19-5x6-hub-pilot-dual-10-hole-p-300-chevrolet-or-gmc-typical Does that make sense?

Hy Dehartb, the wheel in your link is a dual style wheel, but the price is hard for me to take. You should be able to find some good used 19.5" dual wheels, just search a bit, good luck!

Yes they expensive. I will look for used ones. Some is selling similiar wheels for '01 one Ford Duallies but I'm not sure they are the same bolt pattern as these Accurides which of course are the only wheels it seems in the world now that are the same bolt pattern that would work short of finding the '56 to '59 1 1/2 ton Chevy weeks.

All six wheels on dually trucks are the same front to rear.

Many of us think the 19.5's look undernourished on 1-1/2 ton trucks, they just don't fill the wheel opening like the 20/22.5's do.

Check out Fred's thread here, he put 22.5's on his '56 Bus and used adaptors...

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1354204/1.html

Mike B

"I finally also found the Alcoa 19.5 wheels with the 7.25 bolt pattern. I may just get those - .5 of an inch difference in wheel size vs. the 20s isn't bad." Are you aware that tubeless wheel sizing is different than tube required? A 20 inch tire will be 3 to 4 inches larger in diameter than a 19.5 tire.

Thank you both. I did not compute that the 19.5 tire would be so much smaller and completely agree. That was a close one. The link to the bus project by Fred is very helpful. I was starting to go down the adapter path but got scared off. I guess I have to source 235/80/22.5 tires - expensive but look good. I have found black steel wheels 22.5 x 7.50 that would work with adapters that go down to the 4.75 diameter. Adapters are expensive at 1200 for a set of four but running out of options out there. https://buytruckwheels.com/products/22-5x7-50-jantsa-8x275mm-hub-pilot-4-hand-hole-black-steel

Or these to stay with a 10 lug.https://buytruckwheels.com/products/22-5x6-75-set-of-6-10x225mm-direct-bolt-on-black-steel-ford

Fwiw, 19.5" rims did not fit my over my rear drums on my 1947 1.5ton. YMMV, but it is strongly suggested that you find a loose rim to try before you fork out the dough for everything.

And for the price of those adapters on eBay, you can have a custom set made with the proper center bore without also having to have a bushing made separately.

Thank you, going to steer clear of 19.5 Rims I guess. Good bad as I found a Goodyear traction tire G171 with a an 8 inch profile that would compensate for the 19.5 wheel but if they don't fit over rear drums, they don't fit unless I convert to discs. Seems like the only solution is to go with 22.5 and have adapters/spacer made unless I could get American Wheel Specialists, who make 20 inch wheels to make original stile wheels that are not multiple piece. Does anyone know why on the chart in the Tire Chart in the tech tip has two different wheels listed for the 1.5 trucks? It lists this below the regular 7 x 20. "20x5.00S", what does the S designate? I

I have an inquiry out to American Wheel Specialists to see if they'd make the original wheel size or even 22.5s but with the right 10 lug and 7.25 pattern and 4.75 diameter. If such a wheel could be built they'd be able to go right on. After buying the wheels which are not cheap and custom lug pattern adapter/spacer, it gets really expensive to put new wheels on the truck so figured I'd see if a more simplistic, custom wheel solution would cost. These guys make other 20 inch wheels so worth an ask. Black powder coated would be the finish. Will report back but maybe 100 others have knocked on this door.

19.5’s new are expensive, used ones laying around are cheap. Learn what they look like and start looking around, I found several around CO when not looking for them.

Ed

If it hasn't already been mentioned in this thread, this company might also be worth getting a quote from:

Wheels Now

Thanks David. They have a great online quoting tool. I just have to figure out all of the measurements they ask for but it seems like a viable option. I found some low cost 19.5s but convinced they won't work now for a '51 1.5 Ton (won't fit over the rear brake drums based on another user's experience). If they did work I'd just go for them as I can find tires that have a 8 inch profile and would help fill the space when combined with the 19.5 wheel. I think I read that with the 19.5 inch wheel, and based on doing the math, they'd be 35.5 total inches in wheel + tire diameter which would work well (if only the 19.5s would fit across the rear brake drums).

If you go with having a 22.5" wheel made, I would use a 22.5 x 6.75 wheel rim. I know Wheels Now has a 22.5 x 6.75 rim option.

That would be perfect for the 9R/22.5 radial tire. The 9R/22.5 is considered a good replacement for the original 8.25/20 bias ply tire. The diameters are both ~38 inches.

Thank you.