The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1959 Apache fan shroud Question

Hello,
I have a '59 Apache with what I believe is an original 283. The P.O. installed 2 electric fans with no shroud. I am battling overheating problems. I want to throw out the electric fans and re install the engine driven fan and a shroud. However; The pulley for the waterpump where the fan would bolt on looks like it sits too low in the engine bay. Is this normal? Is it because the truck was designed for a 6 cylinder and the V8 just sits that low? The motor mounts look good. My thoughts are to lower the radiator a few inches, get an aftermarket plastic shroud and try trimming it to fit. Just to give you an idea the P.O. even had the two electric fans wired backwards blowing air forward from the engine bay. reversing that helped somewhat.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Where to buy a shroud that will fit? I think I'll need a fan extensioner too to bring the fan inside the shroud edge. I am flying blind. No other trucks near me with an orig setup to copy and pictures on the net are difficult to see the details.

Not sure without pics on the actual setup you have. But the electric fans were NOT supposed to work that way. Thet are supposed to pull air towards the motor , NOT away from it. My suggestion would be to reverse or rewire the electric fans to work as they are supposed to and see what happens with the overheating issues. If that cures your issues , then you be reassured that they are no other underlying problems. Doing this, should give you a baseline to start with. And then if you choose, change over to the mechanical fan, and see whats up then. JMO

OH I JUST REREAD YOUR POST. If you already rewired the fans and it somewhat helped. I would also make sure the fan blades are also going in the right direction. Meaning angled towards the motor. Not backwards.

I agree with Glenn, make sure the fan is mounted on the correct side of the radiator for the way it was designed. They make pusher and puller fans...

Also, 1958/59 trucks didn't use fan spacers to the best of my knowledge, they just made the shroud longer to reach the fan. There are lots of company's that make custom shrouds, do a google search.

Mike B

You probably are on the right track for using the original radiator. The leading edge of the fan needs to be inside the fan shroud for the system to work properly. If the truck came from the factory with a V8 the radiator was designed and mounted correctly for a V8. If the truck came with a I-6 the radiator is entirely different. Aftermarket 3-4 row aluminum radiators are fairly cheap and you can get them truck/engine specific. Good luck.

If the fan is more than a couple of inches away from the radiator, you need a shroud. If the fan isn't approximately centered on the radiator core, you need to reposition the radiator, or find one that's a better fit. fabricating an appropriate shroud isn't difficult for anyone with some basic sheet metal skills. Just be sure that no more than half the depth of the fan blade is inside the shroud. You also need to remember that the MINUMUM temperature of the coolant is established by the thermostat. If the coolant is trying to boil with the right pressure cap for the cooling system installed, you need a bigger radiator. If the coolant isn't boiling, the engine isn't overheating.
Jerry

Okay First Thank you all for the replies! Much appriciated!
I Removed the radiator and both of the electric fans. One was a 14 inch the other a 10 inch.

I also discovered the forward edge of the radiator horizontal end caps have been bent inwards with a pair of pliers. There are two studs mounted in ea side of those bent flanges. Looking at the Truck mounting area there are two huge iron U beams welded on each side where the radiator bolts onto with welded nuts. The radiator mounts on its rear flanges of those channels of which the front is bent inwards. I'm thinking I'm dealing with someone who did some modifications at some point and the entire radiator mounting area is not original.

I'll try to upload a picture later today.

Questions. Did these trucks with a V8 come with a short or tall water pump (replacing it) or have one of those spacers between the fan and pulley? What about using a clutch fan? Were they all 4 bladed direct drive? Were some of them built with the fan very close to the radiator with no shroud? So far I only have one belt driving the alternator and the water pump. I am replacing the thermostat with another 180. was thinking about using a high flow T-stat with a stock non temp orig style water pump.

Thanks in advance

Hy Roadking53, in those days there was only one length of water pump. In 1958 the front end sheet metal was changed and it became a longer distance from the firewall to the radiator mounting, that is when the radiator shrouds started to be used, I don't remember a spacer for the fan on trucks. On the light trucks I have never seen any factory fan that was anything different than the four blade type, hope that helps.

Thank you 3B, Mike, Hot Rod,Justhorsen, glenstowing

All the info is much appreciated and interesting too :-)

When Chevrolet came out with the V8 in the 1955 2nd series trucks they relocated the radiator core support back 5" from it's 6-cylinder location to get it closer to the fan, that set up was used through 1957. Then in 1958 they redesigned the front clip and put the radiator in one fixed location and made up the distance between the fan and radiator with shrouds.

I agree with 3B, there weren't any spacers or clutch fans used back then.

Also, be careful using a Hi-Flow t-stat, part of it's job is to slow the flow down so the radiator can have time to remove the heat. Removing the t-stat can actually cause overheating in some cases. The only mod I'd do to a t-stat is to drill a 1/8" bleeder hole in it to allow air to burp out when filling the system (note, some new t-stats come pre-drilled or have a notch in the sealing surface to take care of this).

Mike B

X2

Ok trying to add a picture. hope it works

Do those pictures look stock to anyone?

I think I'm going to have to just adjust the radiator location to fit the fan. Fan recommendations? Should I stick with a simple direct engine driven 4 blade or because I live in Georgia go with an after market 5 or 6 blade flex fan?

Baby (Trucks name) broke down on my Queen and she had a fiasco getting a tow truck. State farm aint what it used to be. So, I just want to be able to drive Baby anywhere reasonable within 2 hrs or less without overheating.
I think the 283 should be very capable of that, if I just get the correct combination of fan/shroud/waterpump/T-stat.

Would love to add factory A/C at a later date. Should I go ahead and get a 4 core Aluminum Radiator now?

Personally I would spring for the 4 row aluminum radiator now while your doing some upgrades. Many on here think the 4 row is overkill but my 450hp 350 ‘62 C-10 runs 180 day in day out in Oklahoma summers and winters. No worries and since I bought a ‘62 specific radiator, it mounted up in less than 30 minutes. If your going to add AC later your truck will thank you for the upgrade. JMO

Roadking53, I'm piecing my 59' together right now and dealing with the fan shroud location issue as well. In my case I built the mounts for the engine and as you said it sits low. I'm using a short water pump with a 7 blade fan and fan clutch (all are 68 Camaro pieces), I have a 4 row Coldcase radiator that bolts in the factory location. The radiator is a great product and bolted directly in place, I 'm also using an ABS fan shroud. My engine is located farther forward than a stock V8 Location (for firewall clearance) which brings the fan to close to the radiator. I am going to modify the radiator mounts to set it deeper into the core support, about an inch, that will give me the correct distance to use the fan clutch.

The point here is that you should be able to mount a 4 row radiator and fan using the factory location. An ABS fan shroud would work great and can be trimmed as needed. I purchased my shroud from H & H Classic Parts in Bentonville Ark (great service and prices) being in Atlanta you have many options with parts.
Good Luck.

Roadking53,
That is not the stock radiator. The mount someone made is not going to work with a stock radiator. The stock 6cyl. radiator mounts directly to the support between the front fenders. There used to be a member ( he passed a while back), but he had a lot of info on 55-59 trucks, including a lot on radiators and shrouds. All sorts of info on task force trucks. I think he went by Squeeze, He had an apple orchid I believe. Some one help me out here. Look in the search feature and see if he turns up. Maybe some one else will know.

Thank you Thank you Fellas!

Things are beginning to make sense now! Tuts 59 if you could please post some pictures that would be fantastic! I Do want to try and stay as original as I can but with function high on the priority list. The 283 has had the orig intake removed BC PO told me He found a crack in it. He installed an Edelbrock aluminum 4BBL intake/carb combination from Summit Racing. He also told me it has original heads w/non hardened valve seats and BC of that I had to run leaded additive. There are chrome valve covers and a big Chrome Summit Racing air cleaner
sitting atop the carb, so the engine definately does not look stock. The AC Delco Alternator is not stock either as I assume the Truck had a 12v Generator originally. By the way I feel the alternator sits way high on the drivers side. No power steering pump is installed so why cant the alternator be tucked under and down a bit? But I'm drifting away from the original problem.

Back to the radiator/fan shroud. The Truck belongs to my Queen. I mean its both ours and we go places together in it, and She helps me work on it too. I want it to never overheat on her again if I can help it. I think the orig waterpump was bypassing, the truck over heated and the dual fuel line vapor locked on her and Baby just would not start for Her. She knows better than to run the battery down trying to start it. Baby usually starts quick, no hesitation. Long story short, I was out of state and couldn't go and help her. She got a flat bed tow truck and got her home.

So now I am digging into it to try and right the wrongs done to Baby. She had a PO who I feel Band-aided her just to quick sale it to fund other projects He had. The front brakes had been replaced and there were two short shoes on one side and two long shoes on the other.
The rear brakes were replaced along with wheel cylinders but the rear axle seals had been leaking so long the brakes and cylinders were buried in oil mud. The front shocks were too long and eventually broke off the top of a mount. I welded that back together and welded the cracked opp side along with correct shorter shocks. Rear shocks were mounted straight up to the frame. Truck rode like a bucking horse. I replaced the broken shock mount pins and reinstalled the rear shocks at the angle they were meant to be. Along with that the front springs curve was upside down BC they were worn out. I replaced those when the shock mount broke. Now at least the Truck rides nice and its a pleasure to drive.

Reason I'm telling all of the above is I've been busy fixing other things so we can enjoy it more. No different than many of you all I'm sure. Bless you if you are still reading :-)

So if I can modify the radiator and fan shroud to function better than it does now I'm all for it. I truly believe the little 283 can handle the warm weather and eventualy a ac compressor to keep my Queen cool !

Thank you Gentelmen for your patience with me.
I am a mechanic just never worked on anything built before 1969

Roadking53, My 59 is no where near together so bare with me. Looking at your pics someone has added the mounts to the radiator core support. The radiator they used looks to be from a mid 60's C10, not that it matters. The good news here is that they didn't cut the core support and the factory mounting hole are still there. Once you remove the existing mounts you should be able to bolt up a factory style radiator with no issue. I chose a cold case because of the reviews and how well it was made, it has some great welds and heavy construction. There are plenty of radiators out there that will do the job just fine. I would definitely use a shroud if you're able to, it will aid in cooling and direct the air flow through the radiator. I see a lot of trucks without shrouds and they seem to cool fine, I just bear on the side of caution. Living in the South you know how hot it can get.

I used a 17 inch seven blade fan and a fan clutch as these were what GM used on the Camaro with the 327. Now please understand that I made my own motor mounts and located the engine farther forward. I don't know if you will have the clearance needed for a fan clutch or if you will even need one. If your 283 is in the factory V8 location a fan spacer may be all that's needed. I would mount your radiator and do some measuring.

As far as the alternator bracket is concerned look at Allan Grove Products (Vintage Air their his mounts) they have mount to place your alternator in any location you choose. Hope this helps, sorry I don't have more pictures of the radiator mounted but as I said it's no where near complete.

PS: Look at my Build in the Projects Forum, I have a lot of pictures posted there.

Thank you Sir !!!
Looks like wooden mounts? haha!

My alternator is about in the same location as yours.

Yes I do want to go with a clutch fan. Its listed in the manual for 283 cid. Mid Georgia gets in the 92-98 deg range with 80% humidity!

My Queen says I have to wait about two weeks before ordering the parts. I figure about 5-600 for a new radiator, shroud, water pump and everything.

Those metal mounts are not U channels. like I thought, they are straight flat pieces all welded in. I want to see if the new Rad will slip in down between those before cutting them off. depending on how far forward the Rad sits I may use those to move it rearward. possibly use forward mount for condenser

Question: Are you using a regular mechanical fuel pump or electric? PO. install a electric one on on ours.

My fuel pump is a standard mechanical, Holley 110 GPM. I am moving the fuel tank to the rear and getting it out of the cab, using a 69' Mustang unit (20 gal). Look at Rock Auto for your water pump and fan clutch, a lot cheaper (even AC Delco). Be sure to measure before you buy the fan and clutch, they are available in different diameters and lengths. The ABS shroud can be cut to fit or you can fab up a stainless one, Speedway carries a universal shroud that can be sized to fit.

My radiator was about 4 bills with shipping, you can find them cheaper. And yes those were wooden blocks (not anymore), mock up really helps with finding clearance problems.

okay !!! Its Time for some Updates!!!

I finally got the radiator and shroud installed! Bought it from LMC Trucks. Fit wonderfully too! The new stock waterpump (Mr Gasket). Orielly's. Along with a fan clutch (LMC). The fan is a 6 blade flex fan and it rides just inside the edge of the shroud. I removed the intake 1st of all due to massive oil leaks. Took it to a machine shop had a stuck plug removed where I installed a temp sensor. Removed the timing cover (leaks). Found chain about worn out. Replaced with double roller setup (Orielly's). Discovered the old style crankcase breather totally clogged with thick oil residue. The reason for every gasket being blown out! I cleaned all that mess up and installed a pcv valve routed to the intake manifold. New spark plugs and new Accel wires. Got her all put back together and after an issue with the oil pan (different post) She is back up and running!

I let Her idle for over 45 minutes while I adjusted the carb vacuum, and the timing. She never got over 180 !!!! She even sounds better !!

The only thing that jumped out at me after sitting back and looking at the whole picture is the Alternator Fan is backwards! It has a GM plug for the harness so I have no idea what it came off of. Its charging fine. Its amazing how you can get so focused looking closely at a problem that you dont see one thats obviously staring at you! Im going to see if I can find an auto electric place that can switch it for me. I just dont want another source of heat or eventual failure if I can avoid it.

Also took compression readings and lowest was 110 most avg 120, and high was 140. I gave her a clean bill of health!