The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Water pump Relocation

I have a 1950 3100 with a 1962 235 6cyl. There is the well known problem of the fan being to low to cool the radiator. So I set it up with an electric fan. My issue is when the fan comes on it is very loud. I have no problems with over heating. I just hate the way the fan is so loud when sitting at a light or puttin through a parking lot. It my mind it just ain’t right. So I decided to do the 235 water pump relocation using the Dave Folsom’s adapter plate and a 50 water pump. I also picked 235 up a harmonic balancer with a 1/2 wide belt grove as Dave advises so the water pump doesn’t over rev.I took out the radiator today and got a better look at what I got to do. I was wondering if anyone else has done this conversion while the engine was still is the truck? The only problem I think I might have is getting the old balance off. There’s only an inch between the balance and the crossmember. Also there is no threaded hole in the crank to draw on the new balancer. And is this correct there is no bolt holding it on? Just an interference fit?

That is correct but you can drill and tap for a bolt. I don’t know if Hotrod Lincoln still rents a fixture to do this or not. I’m sure he will chime in here soon.

I tried renting, and then selling the drill/tap fixture, and it just got to be too much of a hassle, even when I included a 2-page step by step instruction sheet with the kit. I was barely breaking even on parts cost and machining time. If the crossmember clearance is a problem, just unbolt the front motor mount and jack up the front of the engine a little bit. If you put a hardwood wedge between the clutch pressure plate and the bellhousing, you can drive the new balancer on with a piece of pipe and a BFH without doing any damage to the thrust flange on the #3 main bearing.
Jerry

I did that job on my ‘52 3100 with a ‘59 235. The instructions that come with Dave’s relocation plate are pretty good. There are a few things I can add. First there are two bolts with nuts marked “E” and “F” and I originally installed with the nuts on the inside which created a leak path thru the threads. I disassembled and reversed the bolts so the heads were inside and added silicone under the bolt head to seal. Next is I used silicone instead if gaskets and subsequently it leaked. My fault as I didn’t wait long enough for the silicone to cure prior to tightening. Here is my [POST].

I also drove my harmonic balancer on and heres the [THREAD] on that.

I've done the same...52 3100 with 58 235. I'll second putting the bolt heads on the in side. Get yourself a sharp drill and tap, and just take it easy. The block is pretty soft.

Cast Iron drills easy. There is no need for lubrication as its self lubricating. Do mark the drill with tape to limit your depth.

Bicounty On your harmonic balancer bolt you could take a short section of 1 1/4 round stock and make a guide for your tap drill,put it in the harmonic balancer bore,drill your hole stralght in there,tap the hole,put it together using a grade 8 bolt. One word of caution dont drill into oil passage in the crank. Take your time and have sharp tools,with real cutting oil .

Even if you tap the crank nose, you should use a puller/installer to push the balancer on. Using the bolt in the crank nose may strip the threads, even on a grade 8 bolt. Installers are made to push them on without messing up the crank or the bolt.

Thanks Hot Rod for the wood wedge in the bell housing tip and thanks Phak for the advise on running those 2 bolts from the inside out and loading them up with gasket maker to avoid leaks. I originally bought a pump off of eBay. I mistakenly bought a pump with the wide 5/8 pulley. I later bought one from Rock Auto as was advised in the first place. Stupid is, stupid does. If anyone is looking for a pump with the wide pulley let me know. I was able to find a balancer with the wide pulley so a 3/8 belt would ride deeper and not over drive the water pump. The only problem is somebody must have dropped the engine it came off of right on the pulley because it wobbled like a weeble. The balancer it self is not bent but the pulley is. I tried to straighten it using a a pry bar. It got a little better but still wobbles a little. I think if I take it off and mount it on a lathe I could get it straight. To get the balancer installed I cut 2 pieces of angle iron and drilled holes in them to mount onto the balance. I used a big heavy piece of rebar that I fed through the crank hole in the grill to beat it onto the crank.. Other than the wobbly pulley it came out pretty good with no leaks. I never did drill and tap crank. I’ll keep an eye on it. I do have low gears and I’m not planning on over revving it.

When I installed my water pump relocation plate I also used silicone sealant on those 2 water pump bolts and nuts too create a seal. When I did my initial break in run I had no leaks but if leaks do occur at some point I am going to try these sealing washers from McMaster Carr. The rubber compound is Buna N which is good for 220 degrees F. The washers are rated up to 2000psi. The rubber is bonded to the zinc plated steel washer. Ideally it would be nice if the washer was stainless.
They come in all standard inch sizes.

Archburycontrol You could use copper brake washers easy to get at FLAPS no rust-dont ask me why but there always seems to be corrosion around the water pump area bolts,and the gooseneck.

Klhansen When I worked on those the first time we would pry the crank forward with a board and use amoderate sized hammer to drive the balancer on using an oaken 2x2. We have all seen them bruised up from direct hammer blows. Since that , you are right the push-on tool is best. I dont recall of hurting one with the board method though !

The speed of the damper vs pump is not belt width, the diameters are different.
The late water pump has far more capacity than the early pump. Its rated output is 14.5 GPM (gallons per minute) per 1,000 pump RPM, 72% higher than the early pump at 8.4 GPM. In use, the water delivery rates are more similar because the early pump turns faster due to its pulley sizes.

Yes, the pump speed will be proportionate to the ratio of the pump pulley and the balancer pully; I get that

@panic (or our other valued contributors) - can you clarify what are you saying here ........
I think you are you confirming that, although the later pump has higher flow per rpm, the net result is similar to earlier 216 config as the ratio of (later) 235 balancer to later pump makes the net flow similar to 216 pump/balancer?
The spoiler surely is that, we want the 216 pump mounted to the adapter plate so we get the fan in the correct location; and so, we need the 216 balancer to maintain the correct flow rate.
Isn't that the case?