The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 58 viking no brake pedal

Hi guys, i have a 58 viking 60, i ran all new lines and new wheel cylinders and hoses. I have the drums adjusted perfectly for each wheel, and for some reason the initial hit on the brake pedal goes right to the floor. Ive bleed all 6 locations multiple times, i am not getting any air out of the bleeders. Just nice solid streams of fluid. And after the initial hit each subsequent hit or pumping the brake pedal gives me a great pedal. Nice and high off the floor, holds perfectly. I have 0 leaks its driving me crazy. Any ideas what im missing? Thanks

If you have a solid pedal after two quick pumps, it sounds like the shoes are to far from the drum.

Your system is all stock, right?

Mike B

Basically stock. New stock wheel cylinders, rebuilt master, all new lines and hoses I adjusted the shoes out until the wheel stopped turning then pulled them back in until they rotated freely but you can still hear a slight drag.

So i adjusted them out until it was hard to turn the wheels. And i got a brake pedal but its only about 1-2" off the floor, but the brakes drag pretty bad so that cant be right, the only part i rebuilt instead of replacing was the master. So i think ill try and order a new master to see if that fixes the issue. Maybe mine just isnt at 100%

When you rebuilt the MC did you see any pits?

You want heavy drag when turning the tire with one arm...if the tire spins free/easy it's to loose.

Mike B

Black viking 60 At the risk of hard-time in stovebolt jail Iwill tellyou what I done about that vertical cylinder problem. I hope that is right ! See if you can get a ,001 or.002 thousandth SMOOTH feeler gauge between your piston and cylinder rubber cup to let a pocket of air above the bleeder out. It will take some time and don't let fluid get on your brake shoes. See if that might help you ! once your sure its out carefully remove your feeler gauge.

Oddly enough it doesnt really feel like there was any air left after my last round of bleeding, i got the pedal about 3" off the floor, i was happy with the drag on the drums and how the truck stopped, but the odd thing, i let the truck sit for about 2 weeks got in just to move it a little stepped on the pedal and it went right to the floor. So im not sure whats going on this brake system is whacky, i might be doing either a cab swap onto my 04 c4500 chassis, or possibly go to a hydroboost, and a gm 1.5" bore split master with residual check valves, the brakes arent my only concern at this point as i lost my overdrive option (discontinued). So im a little lost on which direction i im going to go as this was goimg to be a cross country gooseneck hauling rig. For now im just going to be attempting to continue to fix the current brakes that i spent 2k on. This truck seems posessed to not wanting brakes. I can see why it was abandoned once they stopped working. 🤣🤣

Mike, There was some crud build up in it, i used a nylon brush on a drill to get most of it out. I had ordered a new master but they sent me the wrong one and when i went to get the correct one it had been discontinued. If you check my post above this one ive also lost the ability to buy a ranger tq splitter like you had which was my plan. So now i dont know what i am going to do. This has become alot harder than it was just a month ago.

I believe your MC is the problem...send it out and have it sleeved in SS or brass...do it one time for life!

There are 5-speed transmissions out the as well as "Brownie" Auxiliary transmissions that can give you OD.

Swapping a cab to a modern chassis is not as easy as it sounds, it takes lots of field engineering and fabricating to make everything work out.

Mike B

When you adjusted the brake shoe's at each wheel did push the peddle to center the shoe's and then check for for some friction? Several small adjustments may be needed to get the shoe's close and centered. I agree that you should re-build the master again or have it done and then re-adjust each wheel.

Mike, isnt the brownie only a .8x ratio for overdrive? Also for the other 5 speeds i assume i would lose my parking brake as mines on the driveshaft but just for fun whst models would be a bolt in swap with a factory v8 bellhousing?. And the cab swap is alot of work yes, but i measured the frsme up on both trucks and its pracrically identical. So as far as mounting goes i would have to fab up some cab mounts to sit it on there. Then deal with clearancing if necessary i know its not going to be a walk in the park like i wish it was haha.

78b, i never tried centering them besides pumping the brakes while i bled them, i figured that was helping me out but its not too hard for that extra step. I have a few options as far as getting these brakes to work properly again. But the more info i have to start with the better off i am. My main concern was vaccum the v8 i will be swapping in has no vacuum. My rear is a vac 2 spd. I hope i can switch it to electric being a corperate 15k chevy rear, and the hydrovac is very expensive to replace. If i go thst route i can get a 1.5" split master from gm and run a hydroboost unit. That keeps my volume where it needs to be and allows an upgrade on the booster. I have built a few cars with hydroboost and ill never go back to a vac system if i can help it.

Yes, most of the Aux Transmissions I've seen have a .8x something OD ratio.

In the early 1960's Chevrolet used the Clark 264VO with OD being 0.80 and by the late 60' they were using the Spicer 6853C with OD being 0.85.

The Aux Trans could be a Spicer 6041 with OD being 0.86, a 7041 with 0.83, a 8341C with 0.84, a 8341F with 0.84 or a 8345F Aluminum Case at 0.84. Note, these are all 4-speed transmissions.

The parking brake should be relocated to the rear of the Aux so if the trans go bumped out of gear the truck wouldn't roll free...

Mike B

Anything over 6xxx would be too big for our trucks, so, make sure you are looking in that range?

Ed

Ed by 6xxx do you mean the spicer aux trans numbers?

Also, speaking of that does anyone know where to get one? Im.afraid i have no clue on where to look or what im even looking at as far as aux trans go, also the aux trans does pose a small issue of the speedometer being inaccurate. Which im not even sure how to correct if i go from a 4+2 to a 4+4+2

Mike, as far as i know the clark 5 speeds have an odd shifting pattern isnt 5th where 3rd should be? i have no problems shifting 2 sticks and a rear thats something i could pick up on pretty easily. All this modification is starting to make the cab swap soumd easy haha but im interested in all avenues so i would love more info on all this ive heard others putting aux trans in there trucks so its been done before

Time to start calling the big truck junk yards in your area to see what they have.

I have a stock Chevrolet 2-speed rear with a SM420 mated to a 350 sbc with a 2-barrel carb in my '56 8400 running 10.00x22.5 tires and it runs 65 mph all day long on the interstate with no issues...how fast are you trying to go? Brakes aren't any good much faster than that...

Mike B

Mike, i thought 9r22.5 was the largest we could run without the duals rubbing on each other. Dont know why but i did, anywho... its not really as much about the speed per say. 60-65 is probably as fast as i want to take it but i sure would like the keep the rpms as low as i can as my motor makes plenty of tq. Feeding a bbc fuel at 3k(+) would be so inefficient it would cost more to cross the country than it would to pay a transport haha. What rpms are you turning at 65mph? and whats the "high" rear gear in your truck? I think mines mid to high 6's:1 i sure would like to convert it to an electric 2 speed just by swapping the actuators if possible so i dont have to run a vac pump. But im not even sure if i can get one of those either

As far as big truck junk yards im not sure if there are any around me, ive never seen one in my junkyard hunting travels im in MA look there for a spicer aux box i assume

I find it best to go look for oneself, yard guys rarely know what we are talking about, find any excuse to get in yard, look for yourself.

The first number, 6xxx for example, is the engine torque number. 7xxx Brownies are too large for most trucks we are using.

If you get one, make sure to get the shift assembly, rarely do they care.

Ed

Ed, i think the hardest part would be identifying it for me, and knowing what trucks to look in in order to find an aux trans that would work in my 2 ton.

Look around for tandem axle gas powered trucks. International, Ford, GMC I know all used a Spicer 6031A among other models. Look for the "A" letter. That will give you a 24% under, a direct and 17% over. This was commonly used with a 5th direct 5 speed or a 4 speed like a sm420 or SM465. That A ratio set splits the main box gears nicely. You'll have about a300 RPM drop between gears. Under the grease on the driver's side of the brownie is an ID plate that has the numbers on it.

Tommy, any idea what years of trucks im looking for? Generic range is fine. Thanks for the help ill definately start my search. Any idea what the general price range might be on these units? Just so if i find one i dont over pay thanks!

I'd look for 40s, 50s and 60s, maybe up through the mid seventies. About this point they started putting in 10-speed Roadrangers. The RTO-610s, and on up to huge weren't overdrive AFAIK. 13-speeds were but I don't know if Fuller made small ones for the gassers. The ones I drove were 7513 behind like a 335 HP Cummins and the later 12513s were for big power 400s and up. I would think a few hundred dollars would do. Be sure to get the mounts to the frame and the shift-linkage rods and the shift lever and mechanism and the mounts for it.

Black viking 60 Maybe the guys are right about your master cylinder,I got a new onefrom Carters that leaks-off suspect they left out that soft sealing washer that seals the residual pressure valve.