The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop 1951 Chevrolet 3100 Front Suspension Swap to '78 Camaro

I have a 1951 Chevrolet 3100 that I rebuilt 20 years ago when I was a kid. I am now readying to upgrade the front suspension to a '78 Camaro front clip. See photos attached.

I have the general idea of what to do such as taking my measurements and all of that jazz, but does anyone have any quality resources or experience that I could gleam from?

I'm simply looking for a website that I could go to for a general step-by-step or a good video that I could watch (most on YouTube are cutting the Camaro suspension and I want to cut the old frame to fit the contour of the "z" and side the Camaro suspension under the old frame — see photo with read and blue to better understand the idea). Or if anything, if you have experience with this, it would be so nice if someone would be willing to take a call from me and let me ask them a few questions.

This is my first time for a subframe graft, so thanks for your advice and patience! And please forgive me if there's already a thread on this... I searched and there were so many results that seemed to not fit that I decided to post a new thread and see what we could come up with.

Thank you!

Maybe I "jumped the gun", but I did all I have seen others do and went ahead and cut the old frame today. Don't worry, I left metal to spare for adjustments.

However, I realized that the '78 Camaro clip is quite a bit wider. I measured that a while back and knew it would be a little off, but thought that it's still do-able.

How would you adjust this to make it work? Bend the old frame out and then re-fortify it? Other options?

Thank you!

Make gussets to fill the gaps. At least that’s what we did on my ‘47.

Do you think I should bend the old frame out a little to match up, then add the gussets?

We didn’t bend anything.

Gusset.

Be aware, the Camaro clip is pretty wide. Even with gobs of wheel back spacing, if you lower the truck any, you will have rubbing issues. The only reason I did this a second time, was because I knew I was going to install some Fatman Fabrications narrowed A arms.

MNSmith, what do you recommend I do to correct it if I keep this front clip? $800+ is steep for the narrowed A-arms.

And if I don’t mess with the coils or anything else to lower it, how big of tires/rims do you think I can go with this suspension?

Just thinking here so "Don't Shoot"... Would it be alright to narrow the center section of the sub-frame? I realize you would also need to narrow the center steering link as well. Doing this you could keep the hub to hub distance the same as original. I'm sure someone somewhere has done this.

MNSmith, what did you mean by this? I understand the Fatman Narrowed A-Arms, but what do you mean by "did this a second time"?


TUTS59, that seems alright in theory, but it also seems like A LOT of work, especially since the motor mounts would have to be adjusted as well. I bet that it could be done, but it seems that it would be easier to get a narrower front clip or S10 frame.

My Suburban pre-Fatman arms. At stock height I only had a touch of rubbing at times.

You can play with different off set wheels to correct any rubbing. Terry B’s ‘53 (in the Gallery) has a Camero clip and has zero issues with rubbing and the fenders cover the tires. There are literally thousands of Camero/Firebird clipped trucks on the roads today. You’ve got a good start, just go slow and measure everything 10 times before going permanent. You got this.

The first clip I did on my '49. Lowered, non-narrowed. Beat the edges of the fender back. Almost had max backspace, flat dish rims. I think they were only 4" wide!! Still killed all kinds of tire!

If you do narrow the clip, you can take a half inch on all ends of the tie rod assemblies as that's what Fatman has you do anyway to install his arms.

MNSmith, thank you for your clarification! Can you possibly tell me the size of the wheels/tires on the front, top of rubber to bottom of rubber. I'm trying to figure out how big I can go without rubbing if I don't drop it. And without dropping it, to give it a little bit of a forward lean, I was thinking that, if I have to, I could possibly get 20" wheels on the back and 18" wheels on the front, that is if they won't rub. It's an idea that I've toyed with. Thoughts?

And thank you for the last post. I'm still learning some of the terminology, as I'm usually working on engines and not chassis or suspension, but I really appreciate your input. I'm not sure that I will use Fatman's narrowed a-arms since they are so expensive, but I do wanna see what I can do to get a little bit of a lean and keep it from rubbing. I figured that I have a few options for that: 1) Use a bit smaller wheel in front that doesn't rub. 2) Add airbags (raise it when driving, lower it when not). 3) Add narrow a-arms to ensure that I am good with no rubbing and can add larger wheels, but that takes more $ and also more adjustments that I have no clue on at this point. 4) Leave it as is and simply use wheels/tires that won't rub and deal with how it looks. Overall, I'd prefer #1 or #4 I suppose, especially since they will take less alterations and dinero.

Justhorsenround, thank you for the encouragement! All of this does make me a bit nervous since it's my first time for a subframe graft, but I'm also super excited because I keep learning with it. Also, can you help me find the gallery with Terry B's '53? I'm still feeling my way around and am not sure where you're referring to.

UPDATE: A welder friend of mine is coming to the house tomorrow to help me begin attaching the clip! I weld, but since it's my first, I figured it was wise to ask him for help, especially since he's a fabricator as well. All-in-all, I'm pretty excited about it.

Go to the top of the page, click on Gallery. Click on 47-55 on the left side of the page. Scroll down to ‘53 light trucks. Terry Bass will be the 8th one down.

Justhorsenround, I appreciate it! Do you happen to know which Camaro clip he has in it? I suppose I could ask him, but figured it would be easier to ask you first. Thanks again!

1972 I believe. He doesn’t log in here anymore, raising 4 kids 10 and under.

Justhorsenround, thank you! So that would put it as a 2nd generation clip like mine.

Any ideas on my post about the wheel size clearance and such?

I believe I planned for and installed a 28" diameter tire, front and rear. I'm pretty sure I did a 15 x 7 with a 4" backspace, but don't quote me.

Terry B just sent me a message, he used a 1974 clip and 15 inch wheels with stock offset. The build was about 11-12 years ago so much of the details are faded memories.

Yup, I did mine in 2006 with a '75 clip. Luckily, I had been questioned before, so I captured the whole process by taking pictures. Peg took it and created the Tech Tip.

If you look at my Suburban, my front springs are a little saggy. If I had fresh springs, putting my Suburban at stock height like Terry's, I'd have zero rubbing issues. And, to tell the truth, a lot of my rubbing issues went away when I installed the rear sway bar. In fact, the ride improved vastly!

Sometimes this stuff has to take a little adjustment. Afterall, the clip was made for a passenger car/Camaro and not a truck. Certainly not a Suburban.

This is apples to oranges but using a Nova clip that has all the features of a Camaro clip but is the right width which solves all the problems. Also, they made many more Nova's than Camaro's so they are easier to find. Here is a comparison of the two:

The mules, all red one has Camaro and red/black one has a Nova clip
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/hhKK7Vp2/truck-roll-pans-clips-010.jpg[/img]

Camaro clip not a good match and requires gussets and plating
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/H8W3CTb1/truck-roll-pans-clips-008.jpg[/img]

Nova is a good match and looks like a factory unit when finished
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/cvKWSSc3/truck-roll-pans-clips-006.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/JGpXFbTn/truck-roll-pans-clips-005.jpg[/img]

The Nova clip is the same amount of work as a Camero/Firebird clip. As Evan points out it is closer to stock width when finished. Most you find are drum brakes so your search may take a bit longer. I had one set up that way that I bought in a bunch of bodies and parts. Sold it to my brother several years ago and he’s running it with a ‘50 3100 Body on it with a 454 and TH400.

MNSmith, thank you! I will keep note of the dimensions for the 28" diameter tire with a 4" backspace. I would like to go to an 18" or 20" wheel with low profile tires, so hopefully that will be possible and still keep those dimensions. If not, I suppose I will deal with it. Question: What is the widest wheel that you think I could go with, 8" or 9"?

Justhorsenround, thanks for letting me know that TerryB messaged you. Question: Can you tell me what you mean by "stock offset"? That's a new term to me. Also, thanks for letting me know that the Nova is more or less the same amount of work as the Camaro clip. I'm just happy to know that the track width of the Novas are closer to the original track width of the 47-54s. Either way, I'm learning a lot here!

coilover, your reply is golden! Thank you! I will keep all of that in mind for my next build, but to be honest, I might just go with a S10 frame. Not sure yet, as I don't know much about that swap yet. Question: Do you know what years of the Nova clip fit best with the 47-54 Chevrolet frames? I now wish I would have got a Nova clip, but no turning back now that my old frame is already cut! Either way, it's a fun project that will pay off with many good memories in the end.

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate y'all taking your time to post and give your insight.

UPDATE: Yesterday, I finished cutting out the front floor panels. The new panels should be in the mail in the next week or so, but I am going to try and attach the Camaro front clip before then. I know it will greatly help having those floors out, especially when it comes to welding.

Question: Do y'all think it would be too dangerous, as far as keeping the cab square, to remove the cab with that front floor panel out? I don't have any supports welded up, yet then again, I didn't think I would need to since the front floor is the only thing missing. If it's not too dangerous, I might remove the cab to have more space to install the Camaro clip. See attached photo for more understanding (if necessary).

Stock wheel type with whatever offset (backspace) the stock wheel had.

Thank you!

Going with the wider wheel can be iffy. You need to clear your A-arms, steering linkage and frame. Then you need to clear the fender on the outside. It could be a lot of trial and error. Or find yourself some stiff cardboard or plywood. Make a wheel assembly and bolt it to your rotor. Then turn one way and measure clearances with a tape measure. Then turn the other way, repeat. The put the "wheels straight ahead and measure some more.

The 74 and older have the steering gear box behind the cross member and are an easier steering column hook up but as Martin pointed out they have drum brakes. The 75 and newer have front steer with discs and require a couple of steering shaft U-joints which is no big deal.

MNSmith & coilover, thank you guys! I'm getting more and more excited about it as I go.

Well gentlemen, I decided to change directions. I found an 87 S10 right around the corner from my house with a cab (scrap metal $), broken engine (scrap metal $), brake booster, steering box, steering column, and all pedals (with clutch, which is what I want), for $360.

After calculating the difference in 1) Risk, 2) Time, 3) Money, I realized the best route. 1) The risk on installing the 78 Camaro clip was too high, especially as my first. 2) The time on the S10 would be less since, on the 78 Camaro clip install, I had to do a lot more fabrications, research, and line up my schedule with a friend who is a fabricator. 3) The money spent would be about the same, but if I calculate my time, I'm saving a ton by going with the S10.

All in all, the S10 motor and some other scraps brought $116, the pedals, steering box, column, and master cylinder all work great and are set aside for later use. I have a few more things to remove before hopefully beginning the paint process later this week.

Nonetheless, thank y'all for all of your time helping me with that Camaro front clip! I greatly appreciate it and learned a lot. But don't worry, there will be plenty of future questions / input to come...