The horn worked fine, except the steering wheel was slightly off center (about 5 after 12). The 'rainy day' list included, pull and reset wheel. After disconecting the relay, I removed the horn button and pulled the parts, carefully laying them in the position and order of removal, taking a picture before each step, for reference. Using a small puller, the wheel released without a problem and was repositioned. After carefully replacing each part in reverse order, the relay was reconnected. When the horn button was pressed, the horn did not sound and the relay did not "click." I've repeated the process twice. No change.
What could have happened? Is there a fuseable link elsewhere that shares the horn circuit? It must be something simple as the odds of the (original factory) relay failing at the exact same moment of this adjustment seem nearly impossible. Any comments, wisdom, or incantations, are welcomed.
When you do electrical work and you desire to disconnect power, disconnect the negative battery cable not a relay or some other connection.
Now for the problem.
Leave battery connected. There are three wires connected to the relay. One is a hot wire (red), one is to the horn (black), one is to the horn button (green). Wire colors may or may not be per original, so be sure which is which by following wires. Take off the wire at relay that goes to the horn button. Using a jumper wire, attach one end of jumper to the empty terminal on relay that is for the horn button wire. Touch other end to battery negative post. Horn should honk. Report findings.
If it honks, chances are you assembled the horn parts incorrectly even though you were careful. We can go over that after this test. Advise if you did anything else like replaced relay, replaced any wires, removed horn trumpet, non original relay or horn trumpet, non original column, disconnected column connector.
Thank you for your reply and assistance, Bartamos,
Following your advice; the three wires are colored as described (red/hot, black/horn, green/horn button). With the hot and horn wires connected to the relay, the horn button wire was disconnected, and a jumper wire was connected to the empty terminal on the relay. When the jumper was touched to the negative terminal of the battery, the horn sounded.
As to your other questions: *The relay was not replaced and appears to be factory original. *No wires appear to have been changed. I have made no such adjustments. *I have not removed nor replaced the horn trumpet. *Steering column appears original, as built. *No other connections or parts were removed or dismantled below the steering wheel.
Per your message, this result indicates the horn parts being reassembled incorrectly. I am most curious to learn where the problem occurred as the three clutch head screws, plastic spacer, metal “cup” and (for lack of the proper name) flexible contact plate, all went back in the same order and position as removed.
Thank you again for your time and assistance in this matter. I await your further comments.
Yes that basically proves it's at the column IF the wire from the horn contact area to the relay is viable. That later. So to recap the assembly. 1. First goes the spring loaded contact plunger down in it's hole. 2. Next is the disc. As you know it is dished. It is a spring. A large belleville washer. The OD of the dics touches the plastic part of the steering wheel. The ID will be up. As in: the middle is raised around the nut. 3. The three legged plastic part's legs go thru the cup, thru the dics and against the steering wheel hub, held by the three screws. Be careful with this part, it is easy to get crooked or not thru all pieces. Don't over tighten the screws. The assembly has to accomplish a sort of floating cup held up by the disc. You can test it without installing the horn button. Push down on the cup. This makes the disc touch the metal around the nut at the same time it is in contact with the plunger. The plunger touches the "column bearing/slip ring" which has a wire down the column and out to the relay. You are grounding the relay terminal as you did in the test but this time by "touching the wire" to the column metal, which is grounded, using all these parts. Be sure the metal around the nut where the disc will touch is clean and clear of rust and dirt. Make sure the disc itself is clean and shinny and still has a cupped, flexible, dished shape.(not flattened out with age). If it honks, put the button in the cup.
You don't need to disconnect the battery if you don't want to. You are only dealing with ground. If horn sticks on, be ready to pull off the ground wire at relay. Gently.
You don't need to pull the steering wheel off for this.........yet
In your list of parts, you did not mention the Plunger
The disc and mating surface inside the wheel were cleaned, the disc polished. The contact sleeve and plunger were installed, and the disc set in place. The plastic ring was inserted into the cup and placed on top of the disc. Care was taken to ensure each leg of plastic ring cleared the disc and contacted the wheel so as not to pin the disc against the hub. The screws where tightened only to the point of keeping all parts in place, allowing the cup to float, as described. At this point attempts were made to sound the horn, which were unsuccessful. The relay made no sound, either. This process was repeated three times.
To provide as much peripheral information as possible for accurate diagnosis, I thought back to the evening of the first attempt and recall the following: After resetting the wheel and returning all parts to their original locations, I did bounce the cup, as a test to see if proper function had been restored. The horn sounded. I lined up the horn button to complete the job. When pressing it into place the horn sounded again. However, after installation of the button, no function has been possible. The rest of the story you know.
A question: Regarding the disc (Belleville spring), what is the suggested free-standing height? I have attached a photo of mine. The inside height is about 1/8.” Might this need to be adjusted or replaced?
Unless there is a problem with one of the components, it sounds like I’ll be digging into the column next.
Thank you for your continued support,
Jim
(To classicparts.com: I have the plunger, Sorry for the omission).
Disc "seems" OK. It remains a suspect. We are in the process of eliminating suspects to expose the culprit. Could be a conspiracy of several parts. This is the art of troubleshooting. Understanding the problem, logic, testing and sometimes shooting from the hip (guessing) and replace parts just to get any reaction and try to get lucky. We don't all have the equipment, know how or ability to analyze results of some tests. Any way you can figure it out is a good way.
Provided the plunger is inserted correctly and is still spring loaded; Here is the next test.
Examine the plunger and it's operation.
Take off all horn components except install the plunger. Use a jumper wire or any conductive tool to touch (push down) plunger button and touch steering wheel metal (or the nut) at the same time. I hope the battery is connected during all these tests. If the plunger test honks, you are happily 95% there. After you get a honk from the plunger test, you will know for sure it is the upper bits. That is what that test is for, so you know where to zoom in.
Your story about it honking when reassembly, indicates something wrong with the little bits or method of assembly. Keep playing with the parts up there now that you know how it all works, you can move them, push them, find a honk. Then you will realize what is wrong. It could be disc for sure. It may not be contacting around the nut area. Use a screw driver to make it contact. By manipulating things you will get a honk.
If this does not produce a honk, here are the options: One at a time in order.
1. The slip ring could be oxidized but should honk somewhere from wheel lock to wheel lock. So try honking while rotating steering wheel in all positions. If you get a honk, remove wheel and LIGHTLY clean the copper slip ring.
2. Be sure to do your best to inspect the horn wire going down column. Inspect ALL THE WAY to the relay. Not much can be wrong. If it is shorted, it honks. It would have to be broken.
3. Post pics of your parts individually and assembled. Pic of relay. Pic of horn trumpet. The trumpet MUST have a good ground to it's bracket/case/housing thru the way it is bolted to truck. But the relay test showed it does. However your story could possibly indicate the dreaded intermittent electrical issue .
If no results, Do a continuity test on the slip ring. This would be done with wheel removed. One probe on the slip ring, one probe touching the removed green wire at the relay. Removing that bearing/slip ring is a last resort. Not until positive that it is bad, which is unlikely. Unless someone has pulled the wire and broken it off.
After the last unsuccessful attempt, before getting too deeply involved, I went back to the old, tried and true method of trying the simplest solution first. In this case, the horn relay. Though it passed your earlier test; as you said in your last post, “᠁testing and sometimes shooting from the hip (guessing) and replace parts just to get any reaction and try to get lucky.”
So, I replaced the relay, and normal function was restored.
Thank you, Bartamos, for answering the original post and sticking with me along the way. This could have easily been a more intricate problem. I see a lot of postings that are read but the poster never receives a reply. I was lucky you decided to take the time to share your knowledge — and fortunate the problem wasn’t more sophisticated.
It is members like you that make forums like these, worthwhile.
Hi, I had similar problems once. I have a 63 c10, and for the longest time, the horn wouldn't blow, but the relay would "click." So, i had some help and asked my kid to honk the horn and i was in the engine compartment and jiggled the wire connector that connects to the metal tab on the horn. Found out if i hold it to one side, a nice ringing horn, hold it to the other side, nothing but a positional click.
I took off the connector and "sprung" it, so it would connect to the metal tab nicely and secure. The horn has worked nice ever since.
Moral: Check grounds and all connections first, it's usually something simple. I had thought it was the button multiple times originally and bought 3 types and afterward went back to the original and still is fine.
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