I’m tired of reading the one single decade old thread about what big bolt disc brakes may or may not work, and to make it work you have to either be or know a machinist. It’s mostly all speculation based on decades old research. Many of these parts are obsolete and cannot be easily found.... and even if you do happen to acquire the rare old parts, you’ll still have to find a rare 80 year old machinist who can assemble them for you. If you doubt me then go ahead and show me a link to someone who sells P30 disc brake spindles that are machined to fit a big bolt. Hell, just show me a link to where you can actually buy P30 spindles... you can’t find them, I've been looking online for many months!
I recently ran across these pics on a Facebook group. A guy who actually installed discs on the front of a big bolt and he did it in 2020...
I recently did get all the files form him but I'm not going to post them until he gives permission or he posts them himself. I've sent him the link to the big bolt forum.
time to move the hypothetical into action...
Last edited by Tony292; 11/17/20209:19 PM. Reason: new information
2 ton is 6 lug... 1.5 ton is 5 lug... and P30 is 5 lug. So any 2 ton stuff is irrelevant to us 1.5 Ton 5 luggers...
And P30 stuff is completely irrelevant if it’s like kryptonite and made of unobtainium!!! If you can’t find it or buy it it’s irrelevant... it’s meaningless to have decades old threads where all we do is rehash what “could have been” if we just had the parts available 30 years ago.
Sorry for the rant... I just get tired of the same old answers that aren’t really answering anything based on the parts being obsolete.
So, Tony292, you want ALL the hundreds of years of experience to “retire and get off this forum “. Maybe you should get off your duff and do some serious fabrication. Then tell us how it should be done. Yup, us old folks can rant too.
So, I see you snuck back in this thread and removed some of your negative comments. Thank you.
Last edited by Justhorsenround; 11/17/202010:13 PM.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
No I don’t. But rehashing the same big bolt disc brake thread over and over and over and only 3 people in the last ten years have actually done it... and nobody can find the parts to do it today makes no sense. Archive the old stuff. Start over with new ways. That’s all I’m saying.
My problem is that the old thread is one of the oldest most useless big bolt threads, yet it’s at the very top of the big bolt forum list. By useless I mean lots of reading but not one example of someone who has actually successfully done the mod. It’s 14 pages and with 238,000 views... but yet nobody can show pictures of actual results related to this thread.. Now why is that? Why is it the most important post at the very top of the big bolt forum, yet nobody in a decade has been able to do this mod and show the results?
I appreciate all of the years of experience here, but let’s at least acknowledge that sometimes some of these threads are way past Their prime..
I’m tired of reading decades old threads about what big bolt disc brakes may or may not work, and to make it work you have to either be or know a machinist. It’s basically all speculation based on decades old research. Many of these parts are obsolete and cannot be easily found.... and even if you do happen to acquire the rare old parts, you’ll still have to find a rare 80 year old machinist who can assemble them for you. If you doubt me then go ahead and show me a link to someone who sells P30 disc brake spindles that are machined to fit a big bolt. Hell, just show. E a link to where you can actually buy P30 spindles... you can’t do it!
I recently ran across these pics on a Facebook group. A guy who isn’t all talk and no action as most of these decades old threads are, here’s a man who actually installed discs on the front of a big bolt and he did it in 2020... far different from “he speculated about it in 2005”.... with parts not available since 1995...
But of course when I ask him how and beg for the details, I get nothing. But I’m going to keep on bugging him onFB. Because as the pics show he does it with wildwood parts that are still available and no machining or spindles or spindle conversions necessary.
I’ve seen nothing but speculation regarding disc brakes on a big bolt since I’ve been here... Nobody who had actually done so... just a bunch of hypothetical stuff.
Hey Tony, You do realize those are custom machined rotor adapter plates right? And the caliper mounting brackets. Those are custom also. Now it does look like the caliper and rotor are off the custom shelf parts, so that's cool. And some of these big bolts are in fact 5/10 lug for ton and a half AND two ton. I have trucks here, all 5/10 lug some 11/2 and some 2 ton all Chevy, from 1940 to 1951. I don't have pictures but I am in the process of doing 4 wheel discs on my 1 1/2 ton truck. Custom parts from a machinist on this forum for the front axle and I am swapping in a 2 ton Dana 70HD rear axle from a motor home. That's a stock axle with disc brakes with the 5/10 lug pattern. But... Since it's later model it has larger OD wheel pilots so I am having a local machinist turn down the hubs to fit my old wheels and he is also making hub centric wheel spacers because I need a slightly wider axle for my application.
Hmmm I figured you'd catch much more [censored] about this thread....hahaha.....Hell I made a thread asking about a simple locker for our rear ends and one old curmudgeon got angry and said there's no need for that and I don't know how to drive....hahahaha
That custom wilwood setup is pretty badass though. Lots of time involved, I'm guessing?
Reminds me of an old antique tractor I saw as I walked through the pits of the local tractor pull last summer. Lots of HP in a modded engine but those old brakes were [censored], so the guy had cut into the cast axle housing to tie into the right axle with his own gear, then off of that connected a huge disc brake rotor by his right foot with a giant Willwood caliper attached, fed by a master cylinder connected a huge hand lever. haha. Sounds hokey but was done very nicely. Anything's possible once you start building custom parts.
I've done it. I've shipped kits to guys who are running them. I was starting to shelf parts but no one wanted to buy them. Had a few guys recently that wanted them, but was not able to get them completed. I am just now getting set back up to make the kits.
They fit the 1 1/2 ton and 2 ton. It is as simple as pulling the backing plate and drum off and installing the caliper bracket and rotor adapter were the drum used to be.
By the way, the difference between the 1 1/2 ton and 2 ton that I have found are the size of the bolts holding the backing plate in place. If you have 5 lugs holding your drum on, that is likely a Canadian truck.
I have a 1969 C50 and might be interested, but am in agreement with Tony292 and probably the majority of older model big bolt owners--without a fairly well documented/available actual parts list and set of instructions/pictures (even better a video) showing exactly what is required and steps involved--would not be be likely to spend money and effort.
Everyone please remember Randy is in the business of selling these kits. He is not, and rightly so, going to post a list of parts for the folks to make their own. His kit works and over the many years he’s been selling them, Stovebolt.com has not had one complaint expressed here. He’s done the R&D and deserves a compensation for his efforts.
BTW, he posts his complete contact information on every post. Call him or email him with your questions or concerns. Unless your viewing Stovebolt from your phone. If so, go find a real computer.
Last edited by Justhorsenround; 11/18/20206:33 PM.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, it took me a few years to develop these kits. I have sold about a dozen of them. And yes, I did have someone decide to take my list of parts and make their own. After that, I do not give out the list of off the shelf items. They are very common parts. The rotors might take you a few days to get in, but the rest are very common off the shelf items.
I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone has. I do have one set on order and I machining parts for 6 kits this time around. Should be ready in about a month or two for shipment.
Not expecting to get anything for free or for anyone to post proprietary drawings/part lists online. Looking for a general overview of what is involved (with pictures if possible)--along with estimate of cost of your kit along with approximate cost of anything else additional that would need to be purchased to complete installation (and not supplied in the kit) . Also a general estimate of the amount of time required to install (1 day?, 2 weeks?, month+?). I have questions like: Do you replace existing single port master cylinder with a new dual port model--is that in your kit, or would it need to be purchased separately? Existing Hydrovac reused (if so how would it be plumbed) or discard? Separate brake lines needed to be run to each wheel cylinder from master cylinder--or can the existing ones be used from output of hydrovac? Is existing rear axle able to be reused--or is a new one provided in kit--or does this have to be sent to a machine shop to be modified? Does your kit come with a new backing plate that calipers mount to or does the existing one used with drum style brakes need to be modified and reused? etc
As I pointed out in my previous post.... He provides contact information with every post........ Use it. Unless you are viewing Stovebolt from your phone, in that case go find a real computer. He will take your call or answer your email.
Last edited by Justhorsenround; 11/18/20206:35 PM.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
Some of the questions being asked are just another tricky way of finding out how to do it without buying a kit and instructions. If you have a truck and he has a kit and instructions which also have what other parts to buy, either buy the kit or don't. If I was RDomeck, who seems like a real honest guy, I would ask you a few questions about what truck you have and then advise the price of the Kit. If you wait and try to squeeze every plumbing detail and every bolt you will need from him....he may sell all the next batch and not get back to it for a long time. If he answers all those questions, he will be giving away 75% of his hard work, trial and error, time and expense of developing a system and parts. No way Jose.
Those of you complaining can stop and buy the kit and get this crying over with. Stovebolt is not your Daddy. All of the past posts are there to use or not use. The past info is free and all is volunteered. Lots of post are partially obsolete due to many reasons. It's a self-entered post forum, no guarantees as to accuracy. They all build a knowledge base for the future. Offered for your viewing pleasure. To be appreciated. Ranting on and on is not productive, so be productive like RDomeck. He figured it out and did it and will sell you his product. So there you go. Stovebolt.com did it again. You ARE welcome. @Indianapolis Fabrications
I just confirmed today, the six bolt pattern holding the drum to the wheel hub is the same 6 bolt pattern used on½ ton chevy trucks. Therefore any old ½ ton chevy truck or blazer rotor will bolt right up to the stock 1½ and 2 ton wheel hub after enlarging the center opening. Fab up a caliper bracket and you've got disc brakes! Tiny and likely not up to the task of heavy truck usage but disc brakes. With all that said, I'm still buying Randy's kit!
Boys.................we got a Beta tester. thank you Brian. Document your experience will you?
bartamos, I wouldn't exactly say a betta tester. I have these kits across the country that have been in use for years....
Thank you all for keeping things straight. It is funny how my original build thread had over 500,000 views! Yes, over a half million views. Everyone wanted a kit until the price came out. Keep in mind I am an individual providing brake components for old trucks. Think about that liability for a moment..... I have built and tested this kit over the course of years, not months.
If you buy a kit from me, I will include a piece of paper with the off the shelf part numbers you will need. It will also have a disclaimer on that same sheet that states that these parts are only meant for off-highway use.
I believe I have answered any messages, emails and phone calls to everyone who has contacted me. If not, let me know.
I've just done a similar upgrade on my little 1 Ton, '50 GMC 250 with a kit from TSM Manufacturing and it was literally as simple as you describe above. Removed backing plat and drum, bolted on spacer and caliper bracket, then installed C20 brake parts to complete. Installed the same C20 parts on my rear 14 bolt and now have power disc brakes on a 70 year old truck.
Heres my thoughts when I went down the path of trying to convert to disc brakes..
The original disc brake thread can be quite confusing.. at least at the time it was for me. I did end up finding the correct P30, big 5, front axle but have yet to machine the sleeve spacer (I think thats what it was?) and install.
Mostly because I also wanted to convert to hydroboost at the same time. I've got a hy-power (hydroboost) unit and master cylinder from a GMC 7000 that I thought I would use. However, a member on the 67-72 forum tried this setup and noted that the brakes were pretty stiff. I guess the pedal ratio of the old setup did not match up for the hydroboost master cylinder. If I recall, the brakes worked but not great. Maybe one day I'll figure something out myself.
If I could go back and advise myself, I would recommend to go with Randy as he has said he uses common parts. That and hes in Indy
What does he mean by ‘pretty stiff’? If you mean hard to push, 7000 hydro boost might give different pressures the pickup hydro boost? Also, like you said pedal ratios enter into the picture.
Does he know if the pump was putting out required pressure?
Ed
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires. '47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle. '54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed. '55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
I know you have been talking disc brakes for a long time. I just joined and i have a 1937 1-1/2 ton. i desigend my own kit. I liked it to look original but needed brakes in the mountins.My objective was to put it togeter so that i can revert back to origianl. I attached some photos of the conversion. Its not very hard to design and install. I'm not familiar with different years or models what would work or not.
I know you have been talking disc brakes for a long time. I just joined and i have a 1937 1-1/2 ton. i desigend my own kit. I liked it to look original but needed brakes in the mountins.My objective was to put it togeter so that i can revert back to origianl. I attached some photos of the conversion. Its not very hard to design and install. I'm not familiar with different years or models what would work or not.
Anders
Anders, That looks like a nice conversion. Very nice to keep the old backing plate. Any idea what diameter the rotors are? They look pretty small. My kit uses a 15" diameter rotor with a dual piston caliper and a dual circuit vacuum boosted master.
I've done the P30 swap just a couple months ago. Yes the spindles are hard to find. I got mine out of a 1985 Grumman stepvan. Had the kingpins and bronze bushings installed and now I have a good axle with disc brakes. They're big brake parts too so I feel comfortable with how they will stop. Here's my set up.
I've done the P30 swap just a couple months ago. Yes the spindles are hard to find. I got mine out of a 1985 Grumman stepvan. Had the kingpins and bronze bushings installed and now I have a good axle with disc brakes. They're big brake parts too so I feel comfortable with how they will stop. Here's my set up.
What year is your truck and what rims are you using? One problem with the P30 conversion is that at least on my 1940 1.5 ton, I’d have a different bolt pattern than before, necessitating the need to run different rims in the front than the rear. Mine is a 10/5 lug 4.75 center circle with 7.25 spacing. So if I wanted to go the P30 route I’d have to swap the rear axle in as well to be able to run the same rims all the way around.
I have a 1956 short school bus. 5/10 7.25 with 5.25 bore. I am on 22.5" aluminum Alcoa wheels with adapters. I have a later model Dana 80 rear axle with the same lug pattern as my 56 axle had, but with disc brakes already. So getting the front disc conversion has been high on my list to get done. Here are some pics of my bus and my adapters. You could also put in a spacer ring to make up the difference of the hub bore too.
I have a 1956 short school bus. 5/10 7.25 with 5.25 bore. I am on 22.5" aluminum Alcoa wheels with adapters. I have a later model Dana 80 rear axle with the same lug pattern as my 56 axle had, but with disc brakes already. So getting the front disc conversion has been high on my list to get done. Here are some pics of my bus and my adapters. You could also put in a spacer ring to make up the difference of the hub bore too.
And you’ve just highlighted one very big reason that the P-30 disc conversion isn’t a good solution for many of us. It’s great if you have a later model advanced design big bolt with the 5.25center circle, but it’s not a good solution at all for the earlier big bolts with the 4.75 circle. If I went with the P-30 solution in my 1940 1.5 ton I’d end up with 19.5 radials in the front and 20 inch bias ply dually in the back. So for many of us swapping spindles isn’t such a simple solution as the old thread makes it out to be.
Yet the ten year old thread with 15 plus pages and 240,000 views peddles this “solution” as a solution for all big bolts... it’s not. That’s all I’m saying. It’s time to split the solutions to what works for the early vs AD trucks... not just peddle one single solution for one set of trucks as a solution for all 1.5 ton trucks. The alternative is we just split the entire big bolt forum into early and a late sub forums.
I know you have been talking disc brakes for a long time. I just joined and i have a 1937 1-1/2 ton. i desigend my own kit. I liked it to look original but needed brakes in the mountins.My objective was to put it togeter so that i can revert back to origianl. I attached some photos of the conversion. Its not very hard to design and install. I'm not familiar with different years or models what would work or not.
Anders
Anders,
Welcome to the forum!! Your solution is very much needed here! I’m looking forward to implementing it myself in 2021.
Also I don’t understand why some on here are pushing other people’s kits and demanding that we contact them outside this thread. If their kit is so amazing why don’t they start their own thread? Nobody here is advocating stealing anyone’s ideas... got your own solution? good for you! Anders is a guy who designed and made his own kit and is offering the rest of us the details. If you’re here to make a profit from Your own kit then go start a thread for it, and stop polluting this thread.
For all the bitching I did about the original thread at least the P-30 info was free!! Hinting around but posting nothing substantial regarding someone else’s (Randy) mysterious kit while saying you need to strictly contact them offline??? That’s some nonsense. If their kit is that great I’ll buy it.....but if it’s that great then why can’t you tell me more about it? . show us a link to their website selling it... if it’s great then show us a picture or two... why all the secrecy and whatnot? Nobody is asking Randy for part numbers or trying to copy or steal his work... if he can’t show us his work that’s his problem. He can start a thread with no pictures and no part numbers if he wants to. No offense Randy... none of this is personal.
Look I’m sure Randy is a nice guy, and I know nothing about his kit.... but the posts here in this thread tell me... nothing.... about... his.... kit... so why doesn’t Randy start a thread about his kit? I’d love to read about and see pictures of it... but withholding info doesn’t help randy or any of us.. in fact it’s the very opposite of the problem with the P30 solution; it’s far too little information. This thread is about sharing information about 1.5 ton big bolt front disc brake conversions. If you want a thread that withholds such information, then please start a thread about withholding 1.5 ton big bolt front disc brake information.
First, I’m not a past or future customer of Randy Domeck dba Indianapolis Fabrications. I do not personally know him. He does have a website and posts access to it with every post he does. I don’t understand why, if you have questions about his product, you just don’t give him a call instead of trying to drag him through the mud. I bet he would be willing to answer any questions you have short of providing part numbers. As for starting his own thread about the kit, well, probably very limited interest which makes it not worth the effort. Making these “Kits” is not his primary business. BTW, the contact off-line is due to the no buying/selling policy outside the Swap Meet Forum.
Second, the original thread you refer to as no longer being credible is in fact archived by being made a “Sticky Thread” and locked so no one can add additional posts.
It’s time to move on. Time for someone to make the necessary parts, document, photograph and publish instructions and a parts list. Bet there is plenty of folks out there in Stovebolt land with the necessary skills and equipment to do it.
It is obvious that Tony292 has an axe to grind so I offer the following suggestion. Contact the site owner editor@stovebolt.com and vent your frustrations to him. He and only he has the power to offer you a solution.
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
I don’t have any axe to grind nor am I dragging Randy’s name through the mud. I said I’m sure he’s a nice guy, maybe with a great kit but who really knows if it’s all gotta be hush hush...how is that “dragging his name through the mud”?
Hell if I wanted to drag his name through the mud I’d say his kit sucks, it’s terrible, don’t buy it.... I never said anything like that.
This thread is about sharing information... and you seem to be very against that. That’s not my problem it’s yours. Like I said before if you want to start a thread about withholding information on big bolt disc brake conversions then go ahead and start one... nobody is stopping you. If you have anything more to say then please contact me off this thread. PM me and stop polluting what was w a great thread with people sharing information that greatly helps others. That’s what this site is about, at least I thought it was.
So, a brake intended to slow down (not necessarily stop) a round track race car that weighs less than a fourth as much as the truck it's on is somehow an "improvement" over a drum brake that was engineered to handle full gross weight loads (or more likely an overload)? Whatever the OP has been smoking must be some primo stuff! LOL! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
That's the problem- - - -it won't work better. The leverage of the large radius of the big wheels and tires and the inertia of the weight of the truck will make that puny little disc brake far less effective than the original drum system. You'll need a disc 3-4 inches larger in diameter, and a caliper with much more swept area just to break even- - - -or maybe a 3000 PSI hydraulic system to apply pressure to the existing caliper. Then the pads will wear out about once a month. The laws of physics are not "suggestions". Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
These wilwood rotors are 11.75 inch. p30 rotors are 12.5 inch. I think 11.75 is plenty for what I’m going to use my truck for. You use might be different and that’s ok.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
