The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 62' Cluster (can it be saved?)

I may be opening a can of worms here but, I was trying to get my fuel gauge working and noticed that there were no wires going to it. That wasn't surprising seeing as a good chunk of the wiring/rubber under the dash has mysteriously turned to rat poop over the last 20 or so years the truck sat. Then I see, once I had removed the cluster, that the back side of it was some sort of integrated circuit type of dealy that I'm not very familiar with. Does anybody have any experience restoring these? I thought that if there is no way to solder or repair the original thing that i would just run wire from the harness to the corresponding gauges/lights/ect...
Please tell me if thats a bad idea or would be to arduous of a journey to undergo. am i better off saving for replacement bits? I really like the look of the gauge cluster and would like to keep it as original as i can (and still functional)
What do y'all think?

what do you call that thin black conductive metal strips that connect each piece of the circuit?

Hy TerenceandMary, I think on most of those printed circuit type dash wiring boards the conductive material is a copper foil. I have repaired small sections of them by using the same material that was sold to repair the defroster grids inside rear windows of vehicles, hope that helps.

GMC cluster, used fron 60 to 66, should be able to find a used one.

There are aftermarket printed circuits available for my 67... I'd bet they make them for the 60-66 too. They are not very expensive either. Another thought. If you have to replace part of it, maybe upgrade to the full gauge package while you are at it.

Thank y'all for the help, I will definitely check check that out. The defrosting repair stuff is a good idea, I will keep that in mind.Sadly, It seems that almost all of the material is gone though so i will probably try to find aftermarket printed material.
@Rusty Rod - what do you mean upgrade to full gauge? would that include tachometer or clock or something?My cluster includes the oil pressure gauge ,fuel gauge, speedometer, water temp., and another that just says temperature.

Can't seem to dig up a printed circuit cluster from before 1967. I will keep looking around, but I don't have much of a budget so I don't think I will be replacing the whole cluster anytime soon. has anyone had success using the window defroster stuff to make up a majority of the circuit?

That one's easy to "restore". There's a special tool that's used to burnish the contacts where the panel lights, idiot lights, and instruments make contact. It's sold at Walmart- - - - -called a #2 pencil! There's just enough abrasive in the eraser to scrub away the corrosion to get a good contact, and the areas between contacts don't have to be cleaned at all. If a conductor has lost its grip on the circuit board, Elmer's waterproof household glue or even super glue makes an excellent adhesive to stick it back down. Broken conductors can be repaired with a strand or two of thin copper wire and a soldering iron, Just burnish the broken spot, lay a short bare wire patch down, and quickly solder the wire to the conductor strip.

You can fabricate the bulb socket contact strips from brass shim stock and a pair of manicurist's cuticle scissors, glue them into place, and glue wires to the circuit boards to replace large sections of the missing foil. Electrons don't really care if the conductors they're using are round or flat!
Jerry

@Hotrod Lincoln: That is great information to know, seems like it should be pretty straight forward. Im not sure if you can tell by the pictures (I'm not the best photographer) but nearly all of the conductive material, therefor cleaning contacts and gluing down whats left would just be spinning my wheels at the stage in restoration I seem to be trapped in.

If you can't fix it I can. Send me a PM if you like- - - - -.
Jerry

Awesome! I knew there would be ways around that, the thin copper wire soldered down only makes sense. looks like when it cools off out there I'm gonna be spending a bit of time sittin' in the truck soldering

To answer part of your question; the circuit board is just a way to run a signal to all the different connections behind the dash without individual wires doing the work. The plug next to the speedometer has all the wires running to that single plug that has to line up a certain way to match up with the bare copper on the circuit board. In a 69 car that I use to own, all I had to do to remove the cluster was to disconnect the plug and speedometer cable to free the unit.
As best as I can tell, yours appears to be maybe missing some of the copper conduit at least at one of your dash lights; if that is correct, then everything downstream of that will not work. If you are missing pieces of the copper, then I would think it would be very difficult to repair. Cleaning the exposed copper so as to make a better connection is easy, just do as Jerry suggested with a pencil eraser. It is probably also easy enough to repair any damage to the non conduction film that covers the copper wire.

Lee.

Just unplug the connector (it pulls straight out of the cluster) and do the repair work at a workbench with a good light source, and possibly a way to clamp it down. Repairing that circuit board is tedious work. Go slow and be careful! You can get brass shim stock in various thicknesses on Ebay, or since I've got the stuff in big rolls for adjusting 216 engine connecting rod bearing clearance, I'd be glad to send you some.
Jerry

The connector is like pressed in and i wouldn't be able to remove it without destroying the spot it plugs into or cutting all the wires(that are now almost all the same color) and marking them off to be routed properly
I'm missing alot of the copper, I do have all the bulbs and screws and whatnot in my ashtray since im not one to trow away or misplace things of that nature
I just got some pencils and glue to do what cleaning/prep/repair to whats left of the thing.
Thank you Jerry that is a very nice offer. I'm gonna have to fester on this one a little while. I will find some brass shim stock and see how that does for me.

I may remove the steering wheel and set up a small makeshift bench / un-clip the wiring harness to pull the cluster out a bit further. The whole thing is probably one of the mare challenging parts I have done to this truck. I have some wiring experience (wired a new rear ECU in my old 90's benz) but this is a different animal because of how old every little bit is.

Soak the connector with some penetrating oil (like WD-40 or PB Blaster). Wait a few days if necessary and wiggle it a little. Any oily residue can be cleaned off with alcohol or naptha. Another approach would be to cut the wires off 2-3 inches away from the connector and splice them back together later. It's going to be nearly impossible to do the circuit board repair under the dash.
Jerry

I will try soaking it and see where that gets me. I never want to pull on that stuff very hard, I know a lot of people who did more damage than repair when undergoing projects like this.

oh yeah, and what gauge brass shim stock do you think would be ideal for this situation?

Pretty thin stuff- - - -maybe .002" or .003" thick. You can trim it to shape and glue it down, using the shadow on the circuit board at the light socket holes as a pattern. Then glue a piece of bare wire to the board, following the pattern that's there, and tack-solder the wire to the shim stock. I like to use a very high heat soldering gun, (250 watt) and do a quick tack with the gun at max heat. It only takes a couple of seconds to get a good bond. Use rosin core electronic solder, not acid core sheet metal tinners' solder.
Jerry

Nice, I will have to get a better soldering gun for it. Thank you for all the help with this. I will get the wires soaking tomorrow and try to get the materials together Thank you again I would be lost without all the people here.

After much soaking, I have come to the conclusion that I will need to cut the wires to get it out.
Does What gauge of copper wire do i solder down to the brass shim stock?
Do I just pull 2 or 3 strands out of some wire i have laying around?

Before cutting any wires, you should "youTube" your problem; if the problem exists more than a few times, someone will video the process to correct the problem.

The black is a conductive protective coating I believe. The copper is the conductor. There is nothing wrong with the copper runs that I can see. All is still connected. The connector just lifts off with prying with several plastic tools in two or three places. Gently raising it up. Not that big of a deal. Slow and easy.

You mis diagnosed your fuel gauge problem. Nothing wrong with the PC board except flaking coating. All of your gauges and bulbs "have wires going to them" in the form of a copper conductor.

The copper does not need cleaning except around contact areas at gauges and bulbs. Cleaning the runs does nothing and may remove copper.

I think you may be missing a thin plastic sheet covering. Not sure.

An option is to take the caps off of the fuel gauge and take the nuts off and the gauge will come loose. If you think its the copper runs or coating that is your fuel gauge problem, after testing the gauge or getting a new gauge or sender, put gauge on again and wire it separately with wires and crimp on ring tongue terminals attached to the gauge terminal studs.

Chances are your gauge problem is the sender, the gauge or ground. Testing needs to be done. You are getting ready to damage the PC board, entire gauge cluster and there is no need to cut connector wires.

Well I haven't done anything yet, Just alot of looking and planning. The grounds were the first place I looked, I cleaned and re-connected them. I have nothing on the cluster working. I will chase some wires when it cools off out there and see if there is anything wrong in between the cluster and fuse box.

I have checked YouTube but haven't found anything that seems to pertain to my problem, I may not be wording my search correctly?

I definitely don't want to damage anything, I will do some testing on all that and confirm continuity.

I'm sure I am missing the plastic sheet covering, 60 years in the desert has turned most of the plastics to dust.

Probably need to replace the bulbs (especially since my 3yo took one of them and lost it)

Here are some better pics of the plug and some of the problem areas.

Still not sure if I should try to unplug it or even remove it at all. to me those pins don't look like they should be pulled out or pried on.

If it is just the protective coating that has come off is the copper underneath it ok? I can see the copper on some of it but other parts are just white not sure if the copper is under that or missing.

I will still be checking continuity later this evening and get back with the results.

Thank you all again for your help. I would much rather ask stupid questions here than screw up parts that were basically okay to begin with.

I checked it all with a multi-meter and it seems to me that the only thing conductive here is the black stuff that's coming off, it seems that the lights make contact directly with the black material. I do seem to be missing a wire from the plug bit that goes to the temp gauge, may answer why the P.O. had 2 temp gauges. I did find a bad ground I had missed before, but I think that the black stuff is the only conductive bit there. I may be wrong but on any section of the "copper" bit beneath was all open line.

Ok, stand by for awhile. Trying to get info. ALSO, as you know there are only two gauges. Temp and fuel. The oil press and the gen are idiot lights. If you are on a real tight budget, You have two choices other than buying a donor part from Ebay. You can install gauges and idiot lights under or on the dash....or you can hard wire the existing gauge cluster and abandon the copper runs. Some work involved of course. If you decide on those, let me know so I can terminate my study of the flex print issue. If you have decided to move on to other things, let us know that also. If you are still gung ho on any of the options, we will continue to help with what you choose to do. The best and easiest remedy is a donor part, but I understand if that is over budget. Please advise your latest thoughts.

Thank you, I am on a tight budget. I know in the cluster is only the 2, the electric temp gauge and the fuel gauge. also in dash on either side of the cluster I have a mechanical temp gauge on the left and a oil pressure gauge on the right. Neither temp gauge works, so I wanted to repair the cluster then swap my oil pressure gauge to the left and add a tach to the right. I figure that hard wiring the lights and gauges in the cluster (and probably replacing the temp sensor itself) will be the best and most cost effective way to go about it. Out in the desert I really need a temp gauge that works before I can go anywhere but the hardware store and gas station. I figure I can ask my wife for a tach for Christmas and I have almost everything other than that to do the rest hard wired.

would I just solder to the tabs on the bulb sockets?

I assume that for all of it I just follow the lines on the board to the where it made contact with the gauges and whatnot and solder directly to places it used to make contact with. That may be naive of me to think though.

Best option in your case.
1. Cut off wires on connector far enough back to be able to use connector someday or to sell it.
2. Pry connector off panel.
3. Use the attached wiring diagram to see hook up and colors.
4. Use or replace the fuel gauge and the temp gauge on the panel by hard wiring to the stud terminals. Splice a wire from proper cut wire end to gauges.
5. Hard wire the oil pressure side gauge and change the other temp side gauge to a voltmeter and hard wire it. Splice a wire from proper cut wire end to gauges. (I can advise on the voltmeter hook up)
6. Don't need indicator bulbs for Gen or Oil.
7. Hard wire to turn signal bulb. Solder or otherwise attach wire to sockets
8. Hard wire to dash light bulbs. Solder or otherwise attach wire to sockets.
9. Hard wire to high beam bulb. Solder or otherwise attach wire to socket

No soldering to copper. Copper is dead when connector wires cut. It will all look the same as now with no flex print involved.

When you are ready to begin, post pics of motor and engine bay and show all the wiring under hood.

That sounds perfect! and thank you for the diagram. I couldn't find anything that accurate, only stuff that was close.
I will have to pick up a voltmeter to put in place of the temp side.
Tomorrow I will make the cut and pry up the connector from the panel with some plastic prying tools and add it to my box of things that came off of or were in the truck.

I edited my post. please reread. Glad you like the plan. WARNING: Even thought we have the diagram wit colors and hook up, make sure you know what wire went to what connector pin/wire before cutting. On the diagram they are A, B, C etc. Probably better to pry off first. Notice the key tab on connector. That is how you know what each wire is on the circle. Take pics, make a drawing.

Yes I plan on taking pics and making drawings and going nice and slow. I may even fold over some making tape and number them.
I will post pics of under the hood in a little later (hopefully some of the smoke clears) for now I have a couple but they are now very good.
The wiring for some components confuses me a little bit, I know some of it is pretty methed up from the P.O.

Also was wondering if it would be advantageous to use a quick connect between cluster and harness. Like to hard wire all lights/gauges to a 12 pin connector and put that in place of the original plug.( thought it might make it easier as far as working on the cluster outside of the truck and carefully mapping out what wire goes where.

https://www.amazon.com/Deutsch-12-p...+connector&qid=1600711279&sr=8-3

let me know if and why that is a bad idea.

I think you're on the right track. It would be easier to accomplish with a separate connector. You would want to tie down all the wires coming from the cluster as a strain relief between the cluster and connector.
That way you don't have to mess with the original connector that plugs into the circuit board.

[on edit] "methed up" is an awesome description. I may have to appropriate that description. With your permission of course.

Feel free to use "methed up" anytime my wife came up with it and said that's okay lol, she can word that stuff so much nicer than me.

I suppose it would be easier to "rebuild" the cluster and do all the hard wiring on the bench using a new connector.

Cut the plastic wrap around the wire harness back a few inches. The wire that's been protected by the wrapping will have much better color coding than what's been exposed to heat and light. Make your cut far enough away from the dash cluster that you have good color codes to follow wen you reinstall the gauge cluster, even if you choose to add a new quick connector. You can solder one end of the new pigtail wires directly to the conductors on the circuit board for the original plug, once you get it dislodged, and eliminate that one really bad wiring repair that's shown in your first picture series. Good luck!
Jerry

Has the truck been running and driving? Do you have a generator and a voltage regulator? Motor starts and runs? Lights and other electricals OK? Except dash.

Truck runs great and I have driven it probably 3-4 miles on the street and I try to start it and drive a few feet forward then back every couple days (my 3 year old really likes that, he calls it racing), it has a generator. The truck starts after about 3-5 turns of the motor as long as it's choked. headlights/hi-beam work and fog lights as well as windshield wipers and occasionally my tail lights will light up (likely a short). my brake lights don't work and neither do my blinkers, radio, heater, and nothing on dash. the only gauge that works is my oil pressure gauge that's mechanical (I set it up when getting the motor to start). I went through the distributor, replaced the points and gapped them, replaced all the spark plug wires and plugs and battery terminals as well as clean the grounds under the hood that directly related to it running. not sure if dome light works,never put a bulb in it but im sure the wires to it are chewed up.

Most of those electrical issues are not shorts, they are ground. That's for later. Longer discussion on how to fix each one.