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1950 Chevy 3100. Stock frame, stock front axle. Front disc brakes.


I just finished cleaning up the steering column I want to use out of a 1970 Chevy truck. Gives me tilt, auto shift, turn signals and keeps ignition in dash. It's in place and now I need to know how I want to do the steering shaft set up.


I played with the idea of keeping the stock steering box, still got it but since I already have a c10 power steering box and pump I went and bought the 100 dollar kit to use it.

I'm having second thoughts, has anyone used this kit that can give me some feedback, I've only run across two people I think. One good one bad.


Matt

What is the kit part number and vendor? I can say that if you got the kit from a reputable vendor that sells many of these kits, and not some yahoo on Ebay, and if they say it works on your truck, it will work on your truck. Tweak here, tweak there. Classic Trucks, J. Carter and etc. don't sell parts that don't work. When you hear it does not, it's user error or a modified truck. I have added keyless tilt and PS to trucks using a Saginaw box, borgeson joints, double D shaft and etc. Not to AD however. Power Steering is really nice to have. You will need the special pitman arm also.

Its the Performance Online kit. PSK4759 and I bought the pitman arm that goes with the kit.

I'm still new to all of this and I'm not sure who is or isn't a reputable vendor for our trucks yet. I thought all these kits were pretty much the same until I was trying to look up install videos for reference and noticed 3 companies with 3 slightly different install instructions.

I also found old instructions from CPP for the kit from 1993. It is the same for the current Performance kit. The current instructions for CPP however, looks like it is the same for 55-59 but they added a different bracket for 47-54 and it raises the box. Brothers has you tilt the box back more and it uses the the same triangle bracket but added a bracket due to it hanging off the bottom of the rail because it is tilted back farther. WesternChassisinc looks like it has the same kit as Performance with the same part number too.

I used Western Chassis on the ‘62 C-10. Some drilling and grinding was required that didn’t show in the install instructions. I believe that to be the case no matter what brand or year vehicle. The manufacturer gets you close and you tweek it to fit your application.🛠

If I follow the instructions on this kit, it says find and mark the axle centerline. Measure towards the front of frame and then down for first hole. Says I have 1/8 inch of wiggle room. Anyone have a good measurement or should I use a plumb?

Plumb bob and tape would be the way old time pros would have done it. Now days they all use lasers. We’ve got faith in you Matt, you can do this.🛠

lol I can always use more encouragement.

if anyone has used a kit like this please chime in, i'd like to hear how it handles, and if there is any rubbing of the tire depending on what rims and tires you have.

I have not heard of rubbing tires because of a power steering box install. I have heard of that on disc brake install. Are you confusing the two? I assume you have that install done and have solved any rubbing and adjusted the stops.

The problems I've heard of talk about the actual install. Bolts lengths, welding, etc. Use a plumb bob and any other devices to be accurate. Try your darndest to decide what wheels now. Buy the box. Mock up the column. Try to mock up the box with clamps, straps or tack welds or any method and check it out. Do this with front axle off the ground and tires off so there is no load while testing the mock up.

As far as attaching the column shaft to the box, that is phase two. Keep an eye open for problems with this phase during box install. That part is: what is on the box to attach to, and what is sticking out of the column to attach to. The key to this stuff is the accurate mock up. Most of us only do this once, so not much experience. Just one experience that had this or that problem, which you may or may not have. Think it out and go slow and read the instructions and the web. You will be just fine. Mock up, lightly attach the pitman and get some steering action by turning the box shaft by hand to see if all is well.

Just thought I would check, with this box on the outside of the frame I wasn't sure if anyone had rubbing problems. I've got the kit and the box from the donor and I have the front axle sitting on jack stands. I'll try to get the box on today if I get the time and post my progress.

Wheels will be one of the last things I buy, but I think I have them picked out already. For the time being I'll sit it on my old ones while I finish it up.

I'm sure you read the instructions.
Warning:
Using wheels wider than 7” with more than 3-1/2” of backspacing may cause the
right front tire to rub on the steering box. This will vary depending on the vehicle
ride height.
Nothing in here about centerline of axle measurement. Instructions revised 1/14/2015. What revision do you have? Call/email and ask if the one I linked has good dimensions or is the latest advise to use axle centerline.

That's the CPP kit. I believe it was revised at some point with a added bracket. The older instruction called for centerline but did not have new bracket. The older one looks just like the Performance kit. I figured all this out afterwards.

Cpp kit is 4759PSK

Performance kit is PSK4759

Lol not much imagination for the names huh? [img]http://[/img][url=http://][/url]

OOPs! Wrong instructions, sorry. Maybe they will help somehow since these kits are so alike. Sure looks like the same unit with a transposed Part Number. The centerline method would be technically the best.
It uses a specific truck's location of a factory positioned axle.

So I got it somewhat in place. Couple loose bolts and supported with jack stand.

Following the instructions.. I had to modify slightly by raising it about a quarter of an inch. Just enough to that the bottom bolt wasn't going through the edge of the rail but right above.

How does this line up of the pitman arm and drag link look to you guys? The instructions state the drag link must be parallel.

I will give my observation but hard to do with just a picture. I would say the tie rod end on link is at 10-15 Degrees. I don't know what the max angle for it is. Would want to see where the wheels are aiming in that pic and what the tie rod angle does from stop to stop to be sure that it will stay within it's max operating "sphere". It does look like it is bending the boot. Maybe OK maybe not.
Good job on the mock up!!!!

I recommend that you install either 5 or 6 degree caster shims between the front axle and the leaf springs. Using the original castor shims with your power steering setup will give you no feel of the road in terms of going straight down the road. You will also lack the automatic return to straight ahead coming out of a turn. I do not know why this is. I, and others have found that it is just what occurs, and more caster angle fixes it very nicely!
Carl

I meant to ask about that. There's a side note in their instructions saying they recommend that for " a better feel".

I got antsy and went out with a flashlight and a couple of clamps. In the above pic the tires are straight ahead. I can pull it left and right all the way without any binding. In fact the angle at the joint didn't look to move very much.

I will need to make another bracket or weld a piece on the bottom of what I have. Raising it that 1/4 of an inch lifted it off the top of the rail the same amount. I'll do a mock up with a piece of angle iron clamped in place first.

I've gone out many times with a flashlight to check an idea or realize a mistake. You are very normal and a born builder if you are doing that stuff. Either that or we are both nuts.......

With the help of a card paper template, I got the last holes drilled and got it in place. A piece of angle iron was used for the new bracket and a hole was needed in the top for an existing bolt so I used it to hold it to the frame.

Think this is strong enough to leave it as is? Another kit, Brothers, said this was acceptable.

Can't follow your description without a few pics. But if it looks strong, it is strong. Are you good at welding?

My welding has gotten much better but I do call a friend over for big stuff.

You’ve got this. A ujoint or two and some double D and you’ll be finished and ready to move on to the next project.🛠

That looks great. Good idea. The vendors will probably switch to that idea so there is no welding. Do they say anything about putting a plate on the frame rail to prevent cracking? Some factory power steering setups with Saginaw boxes have cracked the frame and they sell a stiffener. Don't know if that is true with AD. If that tab ever wants to "rotate" for some reason, you can make the angle longer and catch that existing bolt toward front.
You may want to round the corners on that angle iron tab to make it look better and of course paint black. Is it aluminum or steel?

yea... I need some advice here.

Parts I currently have.

1970 c10 steering column.

1984 c10 power steering box.

1984 c10 intermittent shaft.

I have two steering shafts one came out of the original 1950 3100 column and one I have from a 57 belair column.



I'm thinking I can either adapt the intermittent shaft somehow with a joint to the 1970 column. Or from the rag joint to the 1970 column I can use the shafts I have and a couple of joints.


I've never set up this stuff before.

I would say that top bracket out of angle iron looks too weak, could rotate as mentioned above. Many through the frame mounts weld in a doubler the thickness of the frame to prevent frame crushing.

Ed

There are all kinds of ways to hook up the column to the box. Using the old stuff or new hardware. As one example: After removing everything off the end of the column, you end up with a spline on the shaft sticking out the bottom of column. After taking off the rag joint, you end up with another splined shaft. Ujoints are sold in many combinations. For example, Spline diameter/spline count on one half and a "double D" hole on the other half of one joint. The Double D means a round shaft with flats 180 apart. The double D shafting is available also. One Ujoint on the end of the column shaft and one on eth end of the box shaft. Measure, cut and install the Double D shaft. Done.
Your exact situation may differ. You may choose to use some shafting or joints you have. Some column shafts have an inner and outer section so as to collapse in a collision. this is good. Using the example above with two Ujoints also provides safety against shaft coming at the driver during collision. The joints deflect shaft so that it's not a straight shot.
See this for technical info and parts. Read every word.

Thanks bartamos!

So.... that clarifies things a bit. So it is safe to remove the intermittent shaft and two joints give me the safety needed in a collision. Since I have the shafts I think i will go this route, remove the rag joint, and use a joint at the box and a joint at the end of the column.

I used the set screw method to attach joints. Because I was paranoid and because I did not weld the joints on, I also installed shaft collars at both ends of the intermediate shaft, so the shaft could not escape the joint and vise versa.

OK, now I am totally confused. Didn't your power steering kit come with a two-hole bracket which is to be welded to the top of the frame which the two top bolts go through?
With only having one bolt above the top of the frame, your steering box will be on an extreme angle. this will put your Pitman arm on an extreme angle. The Pitman arm needs to rotate on, or very near a horizontal plane. Your Pitman arm is not even close to being on a horizontal plane. This may lead to premature wear of the drag link end, binding, or bump steer.
Carl

No it didn't. After buying it and realizing these three comparing all mount a kit that looks the same differently I started asking around.

I haven't found anyone who used a Brothers, POL or western kit that can comment on the angle.

If you have the CPP kit installed... could you provide a picture of the pitman arm to drag link. How does it handle?

The newer CPP kit has two brackets depending on the year. Everyone else only used the small one hole bracket and it looks like even CPP did too in the 90s.

In Matt's defense, the POL kit came with one little triangular piece with one hole in it. To be welded to the top of frame. His angle bracket is just fine. It will only carry about 1/4 of any load. It is as strong as the welded triangle. I too mentioned the backing plate, but if the kit does not mention it, I would assume they know it won't be needed. As far as the Pitman arm, assuming that the mounting instructions were near followed, as to where/how the box mounts, would it not be at the angle the kit wanted? You have to have the box input shaft aiming upwards toward the column. If the drag link/pitman do not cause the tie rod end to exceed max angle, the pitman shaft will not see any extra load. That's what a ball joint type end is for.

"Suspension Ball Joints (SBJ) are commonly applied between control arms and wheel carriers or knuckles of the suspension that allow relative articulation and rotation between the mating components. Depending on its application, the ball joint can transmit longitudinal and lateral forces with only a small proportion of axial/vertical forces."

As far as the angle bracket rotation, I only mentioned it "could" be a problem. I don't think it will be but if it does turn, then use a longer angle and use the other bolt sticking up as the second bolt. The angle bracket will not twist then.

Just to see the difference this is what is in the CPP kit.

As Matt mentioned, he has studied other very similar kits/instruction. The Brothers Truck Instructions allow a non welded bracket just like he made. It shows the box at an angle and drag link horizontal........... but it DOES suggest a stiffener plate to prevent frame twist and cracking.

I need to reread that about the stiffener plate.... I know brothers uses one because a bolt would hang under the frame.

It foes mention switching to a 4 degree shim. Would that rotate the axle enough for a better angle?

Picture of similar kit installed

Got my calipers on and set the truck back down on the wheels. Next step is to set up shock mounts. Front upper ones need to be moved towards the rear. 30 degree tilt?
And I need to find some rear upper shock mounts. A PO cut the old ones up.

I'm trying to install the POL kit right now. I'm having the same issue where the bottom front bolt hole is below the bottom of the frame. It's weird that the instructions don't mention this. I sent a message to POL to see what they say. I'm wondering if I should wait to mount the box until I have the engine in. I'm sure the weight of the engine will change the angle a bit. Did you mount a bracket on the bottom of the frame?

Here is the deal shep. The POL kit is not as good as the CPP. The Pol kit tries to use the same parts for 47-55.1 and 55.2-59. The CPP kit has two different kits and instructions. The POL instructions are written by someone who does not know how to write instructions and is a basic moron. But he or she is stuck with trying to accommodate a "universal" kit. These two era trucks, known as AD and TF, are different. The frame rail channel height on the AD is 5 1/2". The TF is 6". So right away it can cause that hole problem. That's why you have to mock it all up. The exact box angle is not the issue. It is the pitman/drag link leveling/smooth operation, ujoint max angles and any clearance issues with other components.

In the CPP kit instruction for 47-54 they have you drill that hole you are asking about, first. On their 55-59 instructions, They have you drill the upper front first.

In the POL instructions, it's a all-in-one hole measured from this moronic statement written by someone with no instruction skills.
"Locate the axle centerline from front to rear by measuring the front to rear width of axle and divide by two." WTF, over? Anyone who calls the diameter of a round axle "the front to rear width" should be in accounting, not writing instructions. If that is what the hell he is saying. Telling you how to find the centerline of an axle? really? Divide by two? What a genius.

The instructions also have a misspelled word or two.

So clamp it all up there, loosely hook up the pitman/drag link and steering shaft. Maneuver the box until you get hole/brackets landing on frame. Think on it. Contemplate any interference with anything (wheels, inner fender, whatever) Drill and weld. You don't need to install the engine for it's weight but may need to install to check any exhaust issues, motor parts or other issues interfering with the steering shaft and ujoints.

You have posted on a 19 month old post.

Texas Matt will advise you.

Ha! Yeah, I've posted on older posts. Sometimes just a hail Mary. Thank you. POL got back to me and said its normal for the front lower bolt hole to be under the frame and I would need to fab a lower bracket for it..... seems like a pretty big miss in the instructions. But as you said the instructions are written generically for two totally different trucks. Ugh. It doesn't seem I can trust any of the measurements in the instructions if they are written for two different frames.... There is an old tutorial online from Brothers trucks that used a similar kit and they had the same issue, the lower bolt hole was unsupported. Well thanks for the validation, at least I know I'm not crazy....at least in this regard.

Using the measurements they gave for the hole, my drag link doesn't appear level to me.... seems like I need to raise the box a bit.