The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 62 1,5 ton alternator.

Alternator in my 62 Grumman Olson kurbside is bad and I can't seem to find a replacement that looks correct on images. Does anyone here know what I need?

Can you put up a picture of what you have? Instructions for posting pictures are on the left of every page. It is very easy.

It's in a tight spot. Just my luck finally get a 60s vehicle and still can't find the room to work on it. Lol

Generator?

I hope not.

That looks like a pretty standard Delco-Remy generator. There is a voltage regulator somewhere, at the end of the two wires attached to the terminals.

What can be seen of the insides looks pretty good, the brushes are not worn and the commutator looks good.

The wiring looks poor, I would start there. Take that blob of tape or whatever off the brown wire and see what is underneath. Repair the repair so it has good current capacity and clean up both of the connections at the terminals. It just might work then.

There may be an oval shaped data plate with the name "Delco-Remy" on it as well as numbers. From the rusted look of the area, the plate may be gone. It was held in place with a small rivet at each end of the oval.

That's not an alternator- - - -it's a 12 volt DC generator. There will also be a regulator mounted somewhere in the engine compartment, a rectangular box about 3 by 4 inches, about 3 inches tall, with 3 wires attached to it. You'll need to figure out whether the generator, the regulator, or the wiring (or any combination thereof) is the actual problem. I'd strongly suggest getting some professional help, since calling the item in your photo an "alternator" speaks volumes about your experience with older charging systems. The first thing I'd suggest would be to disconnect, clean, and reinstall all the wires, AFTER disconnecting both battery cables. Short circuits destroy wiring harnesses, and sometimes entire vehicles, in a big hurry!
Jerry

Well that explains what that 3x4x3 box was that I found in the grove compartment. I'll pull out the ol multi meter and start hunting. Sadly much like the carb and master cylinder the serial plate appears to be gone. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys!

Check out this tech tip I wrote a few years ago. The title says "6 Volt" but the same principles and procedures will apply to the later model 12v systems.

https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/6v_charge_system/index.htm

Jerry

So, the reason I thought it was bad, was I noticed my battery was charging.

So while it was idling, I disconnected one of the battery terminals and the engine died. So now after finding out its a generator system and 45 minutes of YouTube later... Is it correct that the generator doesn't charge the battery or provide enough power to run the engine at idle?

The furthest I've driven this since I got it was less than a quarter mile. So I've never had it up to speed to actually generate anyting.

Thanks Jerry I'll give it read in the am

Disconnecting any charging system with the engine running is risky business- - - - -I've seen the signal trace on an oscilloscope spike to over 100 volts just as the connection is broken. Stovebolt electrical systems are pretty primitive and rugged, but trying that on a newer vehicle with an alternator and a few computers can do a huge amount of damage in a split second. There's a whole series of charging system tests somebody who is willing to follow directions to the letter can do, but it all begins with good wiring and clean, tight connections. No shortcuts or SWAG ("Scientific Wild-donkey Guesses") allowed!
Jerry

There are also oil caps at each end of the shaft, that need routine service.

Ed

Generators, both 6v and 12v have served me well but I wouldn't touch one now for an important reason: I'm cheap. Just a regulator now will cost you more than an alternator with a built in regulator that has a lifetime warranty. The generator pulley will fit an alternator if it's needed to match crank and water pump and the mount bracket is easy to make or Speedway has them for $13 including bolts needed. Very durable with short rotor shaft, bearings at both ends plus more amps and better charging at idle or low speeds. Since your wiring looks shot an alternator is much easier to wire up.

I saw the oil caps. Pretty cool! Thanks for the info Jerry. I'm not trying to cut corners, all I know is what people tell me and I guess I got the wrong advice there.

Going to test every thing with the multimeter. The wiring is pretty awefull.

And it may not be changing because I've had it do is idle.

Anyway, I will probably opt for an alternator swap eventually. I plan on turning this into a camper so I'm going to need that constant output.

Also, Jerry, did you ever write up that "series resistance test" you talked about in the link you sent? Or should I just Google it?

So, I polarized the generator at the generator, (at least to the best of my understanding). Followed the diagnostic procedure from Moss on YouTube. Got nothing, well 0.3 sh volts. Going to take off the fan belt and see if I can get it to spin like a motor.

So. The generator will spin like a motor. But only from a direct power source. So I decided to pop open the regulator and was greeted with soot and the smell of an old bbq grill. Lovely.

Guess thats done for.

Looks like it has been wet and hot.

Actually, about the time I was getting ready to write that next installment, I had a little problem- - - -called a heart attack. Since that happened around 20 years ago, I guess it's time to get busy and write another chapter!

If you've got .3V residual voltage at the armature terminal, the generator "motors", and the wiring is good, replace the regulator and you should be good to go. There are plenty of Delco 12V regulators on Ebay, and some of them are definitely worth the money. There are two kinds of regulators for stovebolts- - - -"Delco" and "wrong!" Here's a tip- - - -an "aircraft" Delco regulator will work on a car or truck as long as it's a 12V negative ground unit. (Ground polarity is important). Those things are dirt cheap and they will have a lot less operating time than automotive units! When operating against a fully-charged battery, you should see 14 volts or more. 14.7 was the setting we used to shoot for, but only after being sure the battery was charged all the way. With a low battery, 13 to 13.5 volts is normal.
Jerry

I would beware of an electronic import, they are out there and look the same as the mechanicals except that they do not have the wire wound resistors on the bottom outside.

Also the center relay is the current limiter, it can be adjusted, do not exceed the rating of the gen.

The outboard relay with the knob is the voltage regulator, that is where the voltage is adjusted. Some do not have a knob, you have to very slightly bend the tab that holds the spring to adjust.

Darn, so the one I found in the glove compartment probably won't work? It's not a delco. Not sure what brand it is (sticker is torn). It says 12v (did think to check the ground) , has the same bolt pattern and is super shinny inside.

I'm also researching an alternator. I of course don't want to over do it on the amps, how many amps did these generators put out?

Oh and glad you're still with us Jerry!

If the regulator you found looks like it's not damaged, go ahead and try to use it. Just be aware that most of the aftermarket replacements (then and now) don't measure up to the quality of an original equipment Delco unit. I'd rather have a good condition used Delco regulator than a brand new no-name item. At least I know I can service and adjust a Delco- - - -I've been doing it for close to 60 years.
Jerry

I totally get what you mean. Some things are unbeatable especially when you know them through and through. But I have this here and now, and I got to clear out of my work shop by the weekend (pandemic taking it's toll) so I'll use it.

My best guess is the previous owner got it to replace the cooked Delco,. I thought it was junk because it was lying with a nest of old lighting tubes and a busted coil. (I also clearly had no clue what it was) I would ask him but he sadly passed away. Which is how I got this beast in the first place. Just glad I didn't toss it with the rest. Oh wel fingers crossed. If it doesn't work I have a spare 60 amp alternator I barrowed and pal who is a welding guru to slap me together a bracket.

One way you can tilt the odds in your favor- - - - -open up the "unknown" regulator before you install it, and give all three sets of points a good scrubbing with a piece of clean index card stock, or maybe a business card. DO NOT use a file or even a piece of fine sandpaper to burnish them- - - - -regulator points open and close with a slight wiping action which supposedly makes them "self-cleaning", and even microscopic scratches can make them stick. Good luck!
Jerry

Will do! They looked really clean. But I will just to be certain.

The two coils with the points spring loaded in the closed position are the current and voltage regulators. The one in the middle with the heavy windings controls maximum current, which is usually set at 25-35 amps, depending on the capacity of the generator. Some commercial vehicles like yours might have been equipped with a 45 amp unit because of multiple short trips and repeated engine starts. A 45 amp generator will have ball bearings on both ends instead of a bushing in the rear end frame. The far right coil regulates voltage, and has much smaller windings. The one on the left with the "normally open" points is the cutout relay. It disconnects the battery from the generator when the engine stops. On startup, when the generator voltage gets higher than the battery voltage, the cutout snaps shut and stays there until the voltage drops on shutdown. If it sticks, the battery discharges itself through the regulator and generator, and usually fries both of them in the process. Never, ever, push the cutout points closed when the engine isn't running! They will stick closed and overheat and burn the contacts in a matter of seconds. Opening either the voltage or current regulator points manually will shut off the generator output and cause the cutout to snap open- - - -that's how I check for normal operation while adjusting a regulator. It's OK to run the engine with the regulator cover removed- - - -just be careful not to short anything out as you reinstall the cover.

Regulators are pretty primitive units, but millions of them worked well for several decades. Now, there's a lot more regulators out there than us old geezers who remember how to work on them!
Jerry

Also what size battery would you guys recommend? The guy who sold it to me gave me a dieing one he still had.

How big is the battery box? Measure it, and install whatever 12v battery that fits. Depending on the length of the cables, use either #4 or #2 cable. Bigger is always better where battery cables are concerned.