The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop 350 in panel won't start

Today, my son and I were going to install a new gas gauge sender in his '52 1/2 ton panel. We weren't successful as we had difficulty getting the tank completely out (have asked for advice about that on the Panels and 'Burbs forum.) The panel has a 350/350 combo. Once we buttoned everything back up, it wouldn't start. If a bit of gas was poured into the carb, the engine would run as normal, but it appears that no fuel is getting to the carb. We removed the fuel line from the pump to the carb - no fuel in the line. Also turned it over - no gas coming out of the line to the carb. We removed the line from the tank to just before the pump - no fuel. I'm not too familiar with how the fuel system works on a 350. Does the fuel pump suck gas from the tank and deliver it to the carb? If so, does that mean the pump is bad? The fuel line exited the stock tank about 1/3 of the way from up the bottom. Does the fuel line bend down towards the bottom of the tank? If not, would we need to put more gas in the tank? It seems to me if that was the case, then the truck would run out of gas after using roughly 10 gallons. By moving the tank around I guess it's possible that we stirred up some rust and that could be blocking the flow (not sure about the condition of the interior of the tank) There is not a gas filter on the truck. Once we get this figured out, we will install one from the tank to the pump and one in line form the pump to the carb.Any suggestions as to how we can get this thing running? Any advice greatly appreciated.

These are only my suggestions. This is what I would do, with what equipment I have, and with some safety in mind.

You DO NOT want to run anymore tests until a filter is between tank and pump. You don't need and other filter.

Yes, fuel is sucked from tank and pumped into carb bowl.

Test needed:
Hose from fuel pump inlet to a can of gas on the ground. Disconnect fuel line at carb and put into a container. Take off plug wire from distributor center tower. Crank for 15-20 seconds. Should get a good pulsing flow into container. This test will isolate the pump as good or bad. Eliminates all other portions of the system. Report results.

If the above test shows good pump. Attach outlet to carb, plug wire back into distributor and try start. Leave gas can hooked up to pump.

Finish getting tank out, clean it, inspect and install new sender. looks to me like the only sender available is a "universal" style. Your tank was used on 47-48 trucks also.

1. "Buttoned back up". What does this mean? What have you done to motor?
2. Has it started recently?
3. Did you change the pump and take the pump off?
4. Seems like pick up tube does go down to bottom and is said to be welded to bottom? That is probably the worst idea I've heard. Don't know if you can examine that or not. If your tank is a new J. Carter, should be OK. If it's orig, could be busted off/rusted off/plugged. The outlet you speak of has a pipe thread, if your tank is old original, that outlet/pickup tube needs replaced probably, but I have not seen or worked on that tank. For now, the gas tank and all it's lines are eliminated in first tests. Results will tell what the next step/test is.

It would be overly coincidental that your fuel pump would fail exactly when you were removing the gas tank. Two possibilities:

1) In my experience, it takes a surprisingly long time to suck fuel from the tank to the engine. You might simply not run it long enough to fill the lines.

2) SBCs are a puller pump. In all your finagling, you may have created a slight leak in one of the fuel line junctions which is now sucking air. Since air pulls easier than liquid, the pump will just continue to inhale air at the leak and never suck up the gas.

Recheck and retighten all junctions, then fill the carb with gas (through the bowl vents, not the venturies) and keep running it non-stop until it fills the lines.

Thanks for your responses.
bartamos: What I mean by 'buttoned back up' is we put everything back to where it was before we started working on it. It started and ran normally while moving it from the front street to the back lane. The pump was not removed. I believe the tank is original.
miraclepieco: there is a short section (5 inches maybe?) of rubber hose in the line from the tank to the pump. It looks like there may have been a filter there at one point (I'm only saying that because I installed a filter in almost the exact place on my '47 pickup)
I'm going to get some new fuel hose, replace all the rubber sections, add a filter, and try the above tests.

The panel ran before, you did things with the tank, now it doesn't run. I'd give it a 95% chance that your problem is at that tank. Whether you sucked up an object, or cracked an old hose when jostling and are now sucking air. You already done the bulk of diagnosing, no fuel. Now go back to the only thing that changed, The moving of the tank.

There's no point in posting the correct diagnostic procedure for a fuel pump- - - - nobody ever does it!
Jerry

Agree with the gas tank/hose/debris idea. I already suspected that. My experience tells me that since motor starts with gas squirt, that it is not electrical or timing, it's fuel delivery. As you all have surmised. So rather than jump a person to the tank, lines, filters, hoses, it's better to eliminate items at the carb end first. Especially if the pump got clogged because of the shake up.
Rusty has already said he is all over the hose/line/filter issue. If he gets the tank out, I'm sure he will clean and inspect as advised. He can do the tests in the mean time, as they do not include old lines, hoses or the tank. If the tests are successful, it will be a happy thing and the cause will be narrowed down.

As for the suction, during the tests, the fuel line is short.

After all is actually fixed and buttoned up again, it will start with some choke the first time. Then float bowl will stay full for a few days for restarts.

Rusty: Jim Carter has a new gas tank for $315. If you see any rust inside or out and the outlet is ready to fall off or is broken, consider buying a new tank. With all the trouble getting out and back in. It's also very difficult to clean/restore and may be expensive. No access and baffles. With a nice V8 and etc., a new tank is the right thing to do. Consider yourself lucky they are available. TF is not.

I would assume you have converted to open drive shaft with a 350/350. Driveshafts come off very easily. Maybe just a partial removal/lean over is necessary. If not, Usually you remove rear ujoint straps, then slide forward a bit to release out of the saddles and slide the drive shaft back, out of tranny and to the ground.

Problem solved (for now). I put a fuel line on the fuel pump inlet and the other end into fresh, clean gas. Disconnected the hose at the carb and cranked the engine. Good gas flow into a container. Hooked up the hose to the carb - Instant start so I know the pump is good. Put new fuel hoses in from carb to pump outlet and from pump inlet back towards the tank. It turns out the small piece of hose joining the steel line from the tank to the steel line (and hose for connection) to the fuel pump was in bad shape. The clamp was loose and when I was manipulating the outlet line at the tank fitting I must have upset it. Replaced the short rubber hose with a fuel filter. Will get back to the tank for removal and possible replacement. Thanks, again, for all your help!

If it were mine, and had an engine which I really cared about, I would buy a new tank even it cost $500.00 That is cheap insurance to keep debris from continually sloughing off the sides of an old original tank, and prevent varnish from being dissolved from the tank and continuously gumming up the fuel pump check valves and the carburetor.
Piece of mind is priceless to me.
Carl

Good job Father and son.

Thanks, bartamos!