The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Gross combined weight ratings?

Good afternoon everyone!

I am new to this forum, and new to stovebolts. In fact, I don't even own one! I did a few years back have a 71 C/10 4x4 and sold it when I moved to NC, I still regret it everyday.

I am tossing around the idea of building a medium duty tow vehicle from a big bolt, specifically a 1962-1966 era C60/C70. I really like the way they look and I think would look nice with a couple of antique tractors behind them.

I have searched and searched and having a hard time finding information about the gross combined weight ratings for these trucks, as opposed to the GVWR. I'm sure it depends on the engine/transmission/brakes/axles the truck was built with.

It seems most of these trucks have a GVWR between 19,000-24,000, but I can't find the combined rating. If I know all the RPO codes can I determine it somehow?

I'm also not opposed to putting a good deal of work into making it a better tow vehicle (upgraded brakes, transmission, etc.), but I would like to know what I would be starting with.

Anything I should look for when shopping for one, like 22.5 wheels?

Thank you!

Mine is a 5700 Low Cab Forward, GVWR is 16,000 lbs., it's called a two ton, 16 ft. grain box. I have not seen any stats on combination WR. My past experience with medium duty was 20 plus years working for the local Budweiser distributor. We drove 1970's through 1990's 60 and 70 series GM single axle with 366 and 427 gas engines, 4 speed/two speed and 5 speed/two speed. These were plated for 32000 to 48000 lbs. depending on the length of delivery trailer. The over the road tractors that I drove were 9000 series, twin screw, Detroit's, 9, 10, and 13 speeds, 48000 rears, 40 ft. wagon and we scaled at 80,000 every night out of the brewery. Hope that gives you a little info to compare your needs.

Hy vdb11, welcome, You are correct in that GCVW is dependent on a lot of factors, springs, frame, tires, axles, brakes air or hydraulic etc. The information is usually in the maintenance manual which covers the truck you choose, it may have notes saying must have this RPO or these tires. The information is usually in the front of the book in the column next to GVW, hope that helps.

That information might be in this 1962 Chevrolet Truck Specifications Manual? (it is a large download)

Ignore the Corvair trucks in that manual - they might bother you if you are close-minded.

I found a 1963 Chevrolet Truck sales brochure in my stash and a C60 has a GCW of 32,000, the C60H is at 42,000 and the C80 is at 51,000. They stopped the 70 Series after 1962.

Mike B

Most states require a CDL for routine use for GVW greater than 26,000.

Ed

Not necessarily so. It would be best for the OP to check with his state DMV/MVA to see if Historic/Antique registration would alleviate the need for a CDL. Also, he would need to check on what restrictions go along with that. And before we all get carried away with anecdotes from our own states, let's not confuse the OP. Let me say it again -- Once he has an idea in mind of what his rig is going to be (and weigh), he needs to ask his own state MVA/DMV/DOT... and get it in writing, if possible, to carry in the truck.

Before Christmas, I had been working on a Tech Tip on this subject ("Do I need a CDL to drive my Big Bolt?") Maybe I should get back to it ...

John

Wow thank you guys for all the help so fast! Tim, I will download that spec manual and check it out.

Also Mike B (or anyone), you said the C60H has a combined rating of 42,000 vs 32,000 for the regular C60. How can I tell the two apart? I have read something online about the front fender width, are there other giveaways? I'm thinking the 42,000 would be better suited for what I want to do with the truck.

Not to derail, but I have done quite a bit of research on the CDL issue, including reading CDL training books from different states. I do plan to get one eventually just to be on the safe side. In my opinion, it is irritating how much variation there is from state to state so I will certainly be checking with local authorities before I ever use the truck as a combination.

What I like about the potential of this size truck is to be under 26,000 gvwr, so I should be able to use it as a straight truck while I am working on it/fixing it up without any restrictions. Then when it comes time to use it as a combination vehicle, I can get my CDL and test with it **I think** and be able to get class A, just with an air brakes restriction (if it doesn't have them). I'm talking years in the future after I bought a suitable trailer.

Thanks again guys, I am keeping my eyes peeled for a good project start!

EDIT: I may have answered a few of my own questions after looking through the manual Tim referenced. It appears the C60H only had the larger 10 bolt disc wheels (11.25 bolt pattern) with 10 lug nuts front and back OR the cast spokes. Is that correct? If that is the case they must be less common because almost all of the ones I have found so far have the 5 bolt front wheel.

The manual also mentions an air over hydraulic brake system, but no mention of a full air brake system. Was that not an option? I have found one truck ('66) with what I believe is a full air system because I can see the air canisters behind the rear axle.

Trucks from the early '60's and up will all have a GVW data plate with all of the info you are looking for...could be on the door post, inside the glove box door or maybe on the firewall.

Happy hunting! And don't forget to send us pictures...

Mike B

Also, in addition to the (lack of) air brakes restriction, if the truck has a gooseneck or pintle hitch instead of a 5th wheel, you'll get a restriction on your A for that, too. Just sayin'

And about the CDL ... did we mention the

• Lower tolerances/higher fines for speeding and other traffic violations (You know how now, if you are courteous and generally have a clean record, you will get a warning and a talking to and be on your way? Not any more ... If you see the blue lights and they see the CDL, out comes the ticket book )
• Lower threshold for DUI/DWI
• Reporting requirements for drug and alcohol testing/infractions
• DoT Medical form submittals and filing

I mentioned my Tech Tip on this subject -- Here's the rough draft, FWIW. Remember, I started this over a year ago...

Also FWIW, here's the rig I used to get my CDL-A (no restrictions). Tractor has air brakes, regular gooseneck trailer with the king pin coupler insert to make it a 5th wheel trailer. Note: a regular semi trailer, with its axles all the way back, would have been a LOT easier ... The parallel parking was challenging to master well enough for the skills test ...

And if you think 45 minutes is a long time for the pretrip ... it isn't Practice more.

Regards,
John

John,

Thanks for the info! The draft you have is well put together and I think adds clarification to a confusing subject. That is a good point on the fifth wheel hitch restriction, I forgot about that. I am assuming to get the restrictions removed you would have to redo the whole test with the correct truck (air brakes and fifth wheel).

You also mention a good point about the trailer used, as I would have done the same thing with a gooseneck trailer just like that.

My goal is to build somewhat of a multi-purpose vehicle, with flatbed (maybe dumping) and a gooseneck and ball hitch, which would basically preclude being able to use a full fifth wheel set up. I might need to rethink how I approach the project. Having a fifth wheel would allow a trailer like you mentioned with the axles set back.

Unfortunately the trucks I am finding are a few hours away so going to look at them to assess condition/determine info on the tags gets to be a challenge!

Here are three I have found so far. Truck 1 I think is a C60H, 24k GVW, cast spokes and full air brakes and factory tach, $1,800. Truck 2 is already set up almost exactly like I would do it and in good shape, $5,000. Truck 3 is cheap but unknown mechanical condition at this point other than I know it has hydraulic brakes, $750. I keep leaning towards truck 1 but I think it is in the worst shape body wise and has no bed or hydraulics.

That CDL paper is quite thoughtful, I like it a lot. If I however were considering giving advice on the issue, I think I would limit myself to saying (as you do in part) that a person should check with their own state and get it writing. I think I would forever hold the pdf as a draft. It seems to me that if a person is hauling for money they better be prepared to be questioned in detail about their truck and what they are doing. The age of the truck may bear on the question of how it needs to be legally equipped but I don't think that a person should count on an old truck, no matter how it is registered, getting them by a scale without a discussion.

I have spent a couple years driving a tow truck combination for hire which often was over its weight rating and always outside my D class non-commercial license restrictions. I passed many scales without even slowing down after being waved away from the first one I stopped at. It seems that the officials have no interest in messing with tow drivers who frequently make officers lives easier. I am not convinced that is really a good idea, allowing some to get a pass and others to pay a huge price. Everyone is supposed to be treated equally, at least in theory. During that time, I saw a lot of truckers pay dearly for very simple errors.

I personally would avoid a CDL at all costs for as John suggests, the fact of your having it will place large burdens on you when you are stopped.

On the other hand, if you are hauling for hire, you better have the right one. The penalties for that violation are high.

In CO if your trailer is more than 10,000 gross, even if towing with a pickup, CDL needed.

Ed

Ed, State or not, the 10k trailer thing is a Federal DOT requirement. Last I heard, DOT was cracking down on the Hotshot drivers because a lot of them are not in compliance (the duallie pickups hauling 2,3,4 or however many cars on a trailer)

Mac -- Concur. The CDL requirements and definitions in the pdf are taken directly from the Federal Statute and are applied to commercial vehicles used for commercial purposes. The Federal rules do *not* address historic/collector (i.e., retired commercial) vehicles used for non-commercial purposes. It seems only the states do, and not uniformly by any stretch of the imagination. When I was hauling my 40-foot g/n trailer behind my duallie, I usually went through the scale houses (when they were open). My rig was new-ish, clean and my tiedowns were correct so I always got a green light -- I guess they figured if I pulled through, I wasn't afraid of a red light and thus probably had all my licenses and paperwork in order . When Amtrakjoe and I made the run to Kansas City a few years ago in the 9500, I hit all the scale houses, too. Never got a red light. I guess if you look good, you are good Also, having the "NOT FOR HIRE" signage on the door probably helped, too. Actually, for an antique truck not being driven for hire, it's required.

Vdb11 -- I would really think long and hard about using antique vehicles for commercial/for-hire hauling. Getting my '72 9500 into condition to pass the DOT inspection (part of the CDL test) was expensive and keeping it in compliance was going to be expensive ... obsolete airbrake components (wedge brakes!), tires, air system, switches, guages, air wipers, horns... just putting new tires on that rig ran $3,000. If you are going to haul commercial, you have to go in with a big upfront investment to have a safe, reliable and DOT-compliant rig, plus you need to haul a lot to recoup the investment. I failed the CDL test the first time because the truck did not pass the airbrake test. Fixing THAT got expensive. Were you planning on doing it for a regular day job? Or just here and there on the side as a hobby/something to do because you have a truck to do it with? If the latter, I gently suggest rethinking your plan. There is a reason you don't see too many antique commercial vehicles out on the job. May we suggest you consider keeping it on non-commercial/antique tags and using it for your own enjoyment rather than trying to work it for hire ... your stress level will be much lower.

If you do want to drive a big truck on the side (real CDL work), OPT's are the way to go (Other Peoples' Trucks)

John

So, I have a question that is borderline topic related.I have a 24 foot enclosed Haulmark dual Axel that I tow my small (B-series) Kubota and my one seat 900 Ranger back and forth to Maine from NC (with some tools mixed in like chain saws and various implements of destruction.)I pull it with my 2500 Diesel High Country. I happily drive by the weigh stations believing I don't have to stop. I have the truck registered for 12000 I believe the tag states.I don't have a CDL, nor do I think I could get one because of being diabetic (thanks Uncle Sugar). Any input/thoughts would be appreciated. If I have miss posted please forgive me.

If you are only hauling your own stuff, you don't need a commercial license.

If the truck weighs less than 26,000, you don't need anything other than your Class C
If the truck weighs more than 26,000, you need a Non Commercial Class B
If you add a trailer that's 10K and the combined rig weighs more than 26K, you need a class A (noncommercial)

If the truck weighs less than 26,000, the trailer weighs more than 10,000, and as long as the combined rig weighs less than 26,000, a Class C is fine ... BUT ... if pulling a trailer that is more than 10,00 lbs, you still need a DOT Medical, even with a Class C license.

Simply put -- No matter what the truck is, ANY trailer more than 10,000 lbs requires a DOT medical.

10K is pretty easy to get to with a load like that ... better check your weight some time. If you get spot checked by DOT, they can put your rig out of service on the spot, meaning you aren't allowed to drive it anymore until you have the needed credentials (but you can call someone else to come get it). BOLO for all black Tahoes with tinted windows and spotlights ... Don't ask how I know this ...

As far as I know, if you are managing your diabetes, you can still get a medical, but it may only be for a year or less, depending on what your examiner determines.

Sure, they don't mess with pickup rigs like yours .. much. Just don't be out on the road when the DOT man is having a slow day ...

Hey guys sorry I am bit slow in responding, since I am new I am still being moderated. So I think my posts may show up in an odd order in the discussion.

I guess I didn't make this clear when I asked the question, I DO NOT plan on using this truck for any commercial/for hire service. My only plan is to use it to haul my own antique tractors to shows and such. I don't have enough tractors to warrant a set up like this right now, but I hope someday I will. It will mostly be farm use.

With antique tractors, it is very easy to end up over the 10k mark on the trailer (if you want to haul more than one basically). I have an older 3/4 ton truck now that works great for pulling one tractor, but I am thinking ahead to if I want to haul more than one. I know guys do this all the time with newer 3/4 ton and one ton pickups but I would rather have something a little more unique, and I don't mind extra work to make that happen.

Thanks John,
I have been told by several of my truck driving buddies I was ok, but that was several years ago. Y'all's discussion made me think. I go through some tough jurisdictions, PA, NY, sometimes MA.
PS, my diabetes is good, thanks!
Pete

Usually about two or maybe three times a year, my load, including truck can weigh in over 18,000#.
So I run 24,000# plates. It gives me piece of mind.
The thing I don't like is, Missouri does not issue a rear plate for anything over 12,000#.
When traveling out of state, I've had a few LEO's eyeball me until they see the front Missouri plate.
In place of the rear plate, there is a Stovebolt plate.

Oh, the tow vehicle is a Ford,
Don

Truck #3 looks like a LOT of work, if that is what you want, the price is right. #1 is a 60, bigger than #2 which is a C50. That choice seems to me to be between an almost ready to go lighter truck and a heavier truck that needs more parts and work. Any of them is priced about right in my opinion. There is a lot of stuff about each you have not mentioned but that is how I see them. Just depends on what you want to do. Each of them will have hidden problems, that will keep it interesting.

Truck #1 is an interesting truck. Looks like a '66. Could have a 366 Big Block in it if it is still all original. Has a nice Heavy Front Axle with the Wide Front Fenders. Like the Air Brakes part. If you pass on it and if it was close to me, I sure would be looking at it, lol.

Keep us posted on your plans.

It's interesting to see how much more truck you can get for a few thousand additional dollars. You can't bring truck #1 up to where truck #2 is for the difference in asking prices ($1800 vs $5000 = $3200 difference...you can't buy and install the dump bed for that).

I do like #1 though...air brakes is a big plus! My '56 9200 will be converted to full air when I get to it...

Mike B

I would pick door number two.
Less work and will be sooner to work.
Just my opinion.

Don

Thanks for the thoughts everyone!

Bill, you are right it is a 66, I don't know the engine but the owner did say it was a v8. It certainly will need a lot of work to get it where I want it. He says it needs air lines so who knows what else needs done with the brakes.

Mike, I had the exact same thought as you. There is no way I could spend $3,200 on truck #1 and have it like #2. Like I said, truck #2 is set up almost exactly the way I would want it, dump bed and all.

I do keep gravitating to #1 with its heavy build. I will keep you guys posted!

I like truck #1. Those air brakes, will have you way ahead in the game, as far as being cheaper, to maintain, and easier to work on. The cast spoke wheels, give you the option of running 22.5 tubeless radials on it. I've owned several 60-66 "C series, and "L" series trucks. The blue, and white wrecker, and the white tractor, were both 80 series, full air brake trucks.

Don't settle for the first truck you see, there are many fish in the sea and a better truck may be right around the corner. You need to really love it before laying your money down, because it will be a money pit and you will be upside down money wise forever. So love it or leave it, there's no money to be made flipping old big trucks.

Mike B

Going a little off subject for a minute, Spanky, will a Holmes 440 fit on a 2-Ton like Truck #1?

I didn't realize that Truck #2 Dumped. That is an extra special good deal. It probably has a GVW of 19,500 if that would be good enough.

The 440 with a factory dually body is 86" wide with a 60" CA. It's rated at 8000 pounds (4 ton) with a single fixed boom. They were made for the 1 and 1-1/2-ton trucks...would look a little small on a 60/80 series truck and be a little under rated. The Holmes 525 on my 8400 is a twin boom rated at 12000 pounds per boom with a 84" CA...a 500 or 600 series Holmes would be a better fit on the 2 or 2-1/2 ton trucks.

Mike B

I agree and should had given more details, but the truck would be used just for yard work only moving nothing more than 1-Ton trucks. I have an old non-GM now and looking to put the 440 on something interesting. As long as it would fit and work would be good enough.

Appreciate the reply.