The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop CC'd my 235 heads...

I'm changing the head gasket on my 1959 235, and I cc'd the combustion chambers and measured the valve sizes, in case anyone's interested.

I got 84 cc's volume in the combustion chambers and the valve sizes were as follows:

Intake: 1.688"
Exhaust: 1.313"

I had to guess on the head gasket thickness and diameter, since the cylinder holes are not circular in thea head gasket. And I guessed at 0.039" compressed thickness. I also guessed that the pistons are down 0.025" in the holes at TDC.
But what I calculated was a compression ratio of 7.81:1. Slightly lower than the 8.0:1 that the book says it should be, but it could be in some of my assumptions.

There is a lot of room for improvement in this head design. I can see why Leo Sanducci adapted a pair of small block Chevy AFR aluminum heads to his stovebolt. (By whacking off 1 cylinder each and welding them together).

I can imagine if you can get a modern cam, head, induction, and good exhaust, you could pretty easily double the output of an inline 6.

Where can I find out more about wht Sanducci did with the aluminum SBC heads?

Chevrolet Inline Six-Cylinder Power manual by Leo Santucci Covers 194, 230, 250, and 292. Good starter manual for the afore mentioned engines. Amazon has it it and it is also on ebay,

Larry

It really was a fascinating read. I clicked on a link somewhere here. Someone might know, or else do a search on the internet.

I believe he used a 292, which has the same bore size as a 283 V8. He built the bottom super strong, reinforcing the main caps, used V8 connecting rods (I was told small block rods will work with the crank), and good forged pistons.

Then he bought a pair of expensive aluminum AFR heads and cut one cylinder off of each and had it heliarced back together and remachined. Then he had a really nice flowing cross-flow head. That put his exhaust on the opposite side of his intake, which really increase the space available for a turbo.

He's got the motor in a Studebaker Golden Hawk and runs 10 second quarters with it.

I'd hate to think what kind of budget he had with that engine though!

But what does CCing and critiquing the 235 head have to do with what Santucci did to the later six? You can't do the V8 head welding thing on the 235, can you?

Quote:
"There is a lot of room for improvement in this head design. I can see why Leo Sanducci adapted a pair of small block Chevy AFR aluminum heads to his stovebolt. (By whacking off 1 cylinder each and welding them together)."

Because 84cc combustion chambers is incredibly huge, and because the intake valve is right in the quench area, there's really no room to cut the heads for an improvement in compression...In fact there's almost nothing you can do with the stock heads.

When I was looking over the engine, I liked the basic design. But I was commenting that I can see why Leo Sanducci MADE his own head.
And no, I don't have the capability to do what he did.

In fact, really the only way I can think of to significantly increase performance of this engine is to turbocharge it. A turbo would really like the large combustion chamber and low compression. I am seriously contemplating using one of my spare Garrett T03 turbos on this engine. But because it doesn't have forged pistons, I'll keep the boost down to about 6 or 7 pounds.

And THAT is why I've been looking over Leo Sanducci's project.

If you're lookin for a performance head for the 235, sometimes the old Fisher and Wayne crossflow heads do pop up. I have seen them in Hemming's, and I do seem to recall that the Fisher head was being reproduced. I think that it was being done by the same guy that did the reproduction Ar-Dun heads for the Flathead ferd. That would be much easier than trying to make a smallblock head work, the machining to make the bolt pattern work would be a nightmare to do.

I'll keep an eye out for that, thanks.

You wouldn't happen to know a link on the internet to read up on them, would you? I found nothing on an internet search.

Hot Rod Dad, You might try Inliners.org, there hasn't been any recent mention of the fisher head, you can ask. We're waiting to see if the Wayne head comes alive again.

Larry

Found it! Here is the website for those 12-port crossflow inline 6 heads:

http://www.waynemfgco.com/frame.html

Not cheap though.
$3350 for fully assembled aluminum head w/ss valves (2.125"/1.7")
$1395 for shaft rocker arm system (but looks like you can use original)
$150 for rocker arm assy stud kit
$400 for aluminum manifold ...or...
$1485 for EFI manifold with everything included

Depending on what you want, could end up being a 5 grand upgrade.

I've got an e-mail to them asking about compatibility with turbocharging because there is essentially NO combustion chamber. So if you use flat top pistons, you'll have a heck of a lot of compression!!! They might sell dished pistons, and I'll report back when they answer me.

From what I've heard, you can't use your rocker system as they used Buick straight eight components. Also, I've read on the Inliner site that a lot of people have paid for the heads and haven't received them, but maybe that has been resolved. Someone else mentioned a room full of unmachined castings, but no finished heads.

Baldy, You've got it pretty much right, Wayne Manufacturing is in a coma right now. Nobody on Inliners is saying much right now in the hopes that the situation(?) resolves itself. I've read that most the folks that paid for their heads did get it back. Correct on the pallets of unfinished castings. There were a few that did get heads how complete I'm not sure. As I said everybody is tight lipped in the hopes that production can resume. If you check the classifieds on Inliners there are also some 12 port molds for sale. I believe these are the Deppe (aka Duggan molds(?)). An article written on these some year ago was reprinted in the last 12 Port News. Awesome heads the intake ports were canted about 45 degrees giving abou a 70% valve window. Oops those are for the 250/292. There was some nice stuff out there for our inlines, but the demand doesn't make it economical to produce.

Larry

Okay. That's too bad, but you're right. Sounds like they're either having a hard time with their business start-up, or someone was living the high life on someone else's money and it hurt the business effort...usually a common affliction in the CEO world.

So is anyone else producing a more modern head?
I could easily adapt a stock head for forced induction, they just don't flow that well. The nice thing is, stock heads have the low compression you need...except that they're iron.

Well, that job's done. Head gasket went on, warmed it up then retorqued bolts, then adjusted the valves. The valves were REALLY tight. I adjusted them and I'm back in business.

[
These prices look like the GMC, the chevy is cheaper, but still very expensive.

"Not cheap though.
$3350 for fully assembled aluminum head w/ss valves (2.125"/1.7")
$1395 for shaft rocker arm system (but looks like you can use original)
$150 for rocker arm assy stud kit
$400 for aluminum manifold ...or...
$1485 for EFI manifold with everything included

Depending on what you want, could end up being a 5

grand upgrade."

If I recall correctly, the GMC has the combustion chamber in the piston. The chevy head appears to have a 'normal' chamber.

I've got an e-mail to them asking about compatibility with turbocharging because there is essentially NO combustion chamber. So if you use flat top pistons, you'll have a heck of a lot of compression!!! They might sell dished pistons, and I'll report back when they answer me. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Well, the 235's toast. After the head gasket went in, it started and ran fine, like normal, but got worse and worse and had lots of water vapor coming out the exhaust pipe.

That can only mean one thing, a cracked cylinder is letting water in. Pulling the dipstick confirmed it, looks like mocha.

Found a 292 though. I was thinking I'd drop a 350 in this time, but because the deal's so good on the 292, it might be worth getting that.
It'll take me 6 hours to go get it though! And I wish I had my truck to bring it back.