The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk AD engine removal options

I'm ready to pull the 216 and install a 235 in my 49 3/4 ton. I've pulled a couple of engines over the years but this will be my first experience with an AD Chevy. The Chevy Truck Shop Manual calls for removing the hood followed by removing all bolts connecting the radiator support bracket to the fenders and frame crossmember, then removing the radiator and support bracket as a unit. Though not mentioned in the manual, the latch plate between the grill and radiator support bracket would also have to be removed.

I've run across a couple of articles describing removal of the fender to cowl bolts and the radiator support to crossmember bolts to facilitate pulling the entire front clip intact.

Anybody out there willing to share their suggestions on which is the choice of least resistance?

Thanks in advance,
Steve

I suspect you'll get some different opinions, but I personally found it very easy to remove the front clip. I'd suggest one of the biggest factors is how happy you are with the current alignment of the front fenders/hood. If everything is generally good, and you don't want to mess with re-aligning the fenders/hood, removing the entire front clip allows you to leave the hood in place, and it's pretty easy to get the front clip back in place without too much adjustment fuss.

I created this YouTube video of removing the front clip, which will give you an idea of the difficulty. Unfortunately I never created the video about putting it back.

Thanks for the reply, Greg. Your point about realigning the the front body parts is well taken. I stripped everything off or the frame except the cab a few years ago for some much needed dent/rust repair and repainting. Getting everything aligned properly when I reassembled the front clip was a major pain.

I want to commend you for the excellent video; one of the best I've seen!

Steve

Removing the front clip is the easiest way.

Ed

I don't suggest this now but in the old days, they would cut the support frame ahead of the radiator. Mine has been cut twice and then welded. It was cut a 3rd time without rewelding. That came in handy when I pulled the 235 and installed the 261.

I'll bet there are lots of ADs out there that have had this done. My junk yard once had 33 ADs. 11 had the frame cut. 6 had never been cut. (16 didn't have the piece at all.)

I brought my '48 to an old timer mechanic and it jogged his memory. He said "Yea. We used to do that."

Greg: great video! I’d read about removing the front clip as a unit in numerous other posts, and now I can see how practical it really is. Thanks for taking the time to put that together! This will help me decide whether or not I want to go off the deep end and do an LS swap.....
Regards! Dave

I have replaced the engine three times in perhaps 10 years or so. Each time I followed the instructions in the manual, removing the grill and radiator. It really isn't all that difficult. However, next time I would be inclined to remove the entire front clip as in the video.

The difficulty in removing front sheetmetal depends on how rusty the bolts are. 5/16 bolts aren't too too difficult to break off but all those little nut plates in the grill sides are a pain to braze in again when they come loose. My 1-ton has its top, front radiator support cut to facilitate installing a 2-ton radiator in font of the hoop. I bolted it back in place. To get the radiator out you have to remove it. With that gone it would be easy to slide the engine out through the hoop, though the bellhousing might not clear. Measure it.

Last time I pulled the engine I pulled the complete clip off, which involves breaking all the bolts that hold the front clip to the cab. If you're good with a torch, you can torch them off. I bought a special tip for that purpose -- works really well on bolts to big to break. On the 1-ton there are 2 bolts at the bottom of the hoop that are typically oil soaked that hold the clip to the frame. That's easy. Then there's the wiring and plumbing for accessory fans, A/C condensers etc. I didn't use plugs for such things so I'll have to install those before next time I pull the engine. and, of course I'll have to recharge the A/C.

Steve,
My 2 cents: on my 1950 3100. I removed the front bumper, grill and radiator core support.
I left my 3 speed tranny in truck...slid out old 216. Put 1959 235 right back in.
I only "broke" a few of the clips that are on the grill. They have replacements at your local Auto Parts Store.. it was pretty simple. Take your time. Bag & Label bolts & nuts.
The only time consuming was re aligning the fenders with the core support. Just take your time and DO NOT Tighten the bolts until you have both sides all bolts started.
Todd

If one heats most bolts up with a torch to just short of red, as they cool, give a shot of oil, the heat does away with rust and then can be removed properly. Rust belt people might have to try harder.

Ed

I'm the one who started this thread and I want to thank everyone for so many useful tips. In the end, I opted to remove the front clip. It was relatively easy. Fourteen bolts to remove at the cab and two under the radiator bracket. I count myself lucky that none of the bolts broke during the process. I'm pretty sure this process was easier than the alternative. Also, having the inner fenders out of the way made it much easier to access all of those other stubborn connectors involved with the engine swap. I will be able to do a much better cleanup and repaint job before reassembly.

Thanks again,
Steve

On my GMC, there are nuts and bolts that hold the rear of the fender to the cab, I replaced them with studs which made assembling them much easier for a one man operation.

Ed

Are you talking about inner fender fasteners or the fender fasteners?

I wouldn't do that with the fender fasteners. You'd lose half of the adjustment capacity with the larger holes and fender washers. On the inner fender fasteners, the right side is a 2-person thing as the bolts go thru the footboard from inside the cab. Might be a good idea there if you're working alone to tack the bolts to the footboard. Driver's side inner fender bolts are accessible from underneath, so no need for studs there.

When I had help getting a rebuilt 261 installed in my 3100 last spring, the gentleman that helped me removed the radiator, cut the radiator support piece as shown earlier in this thread, and removed the hood. Never touched the grill or front fenders. I think the key with removing the hood is simply not unbolting the hinges from the cab. Only unbolt the hood from the hinges.

Also, the transmission was not mounted to the engine yet. After the engine was installed, the transmission was lifted by a hoist which was cantilevered in through the passenger door, and lifted the trans up from the floor.
If think if you tried to drop a connected engine/trans combo in by only removing the hood, then you'd have to tilt it at a crazy dangerous angle in order to fit down into the engine bay. Not a good option.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've showed this before. The radiator support frame was already cut so I just removed it and the radiator. The shop manual says to remove the engine WITH tranny attached. (Not a good idea.) The hoist attachment had a heavy threaded bar which allowed moving the lifting point and the tilt shown.

I would not pull an engine this way again. I installed the 261 w/o tranny attached.

That does look a tad scary!

Wally/Montana's photo shows why I only did it this way once. Subsequent to this photo, one has to tilt the engine on the hoist assembly back toward level to clear the grill. If something slides of slips or a bolt breaks........

I cut my teeth on old 60s era KW and Pete log trucks. The parts were bigger but the procedure was much the same. The drill went like this:

Pull truck into shop. Close shop door; fill orchard heater with hydraulic oil from yesterday's job; light orchard heater with acetylene torch (hopefully you swept the snow off the truck outside.) Roll toolbox up close to orchard heater (but not so close as to singe the paint) Chock truck wheels; Drain cooling system; Drain oil pan and filters, save oil to mix with gear oil for orchard heater tomorrow (it'll be colder); Put transmission jack under transmission, support lightly and remove mounting bolts; Remove wiring, air lines, clutch linkage, exhaust, hydraulic hoses, radiator and grill (predated one piece fiberglass front ends); Position gantry over engine and attach crane to lifting eyes, support engine slightly; Remove motor mount bolts; double-check that everything is disconnected; Lift engine slightly, lift transmission to match; Check that transmission slides freely away from engine, i.e. doesn't bind on clutch splines. Move gantry toward front of truck, checking for loose things catching along the way. Do not hit PT pump on fender skirt; Remove engine and set on suitable dolly and block engine for safety.

Position replacement engine under gantry. Reverse above procedure. Open shop doors. Test fire engine. Make out tie-in instructions for night shift. Pick up lunch box and clock out.

Sweep snow off pickup. Get in. Pull choke and throttle knobs; turn on key; step on starter; turn off key; return to shop for battery cart; return to pickup; notice that cab marker lights are on; turn markers off; hook up booster batteries; turn on key and step on starter. Test fire engine, warm up engine; turn "Warmer" knob fully clockwise, move heater switch to low only so you don't freeze water in heater; disconnect battery cart and return it to battery room in shop. Return to pickup; replace battery box top and floor mats. Sweep snow off windshield again. Get in cab. Move heater switch to high. Pull out of truck yard and onto highway. Stop at Silver Spoon cafe for Wednesday night meatloaf special.

This is how I remember removing a 335 Cummins from a late 50s KW frame. The parts are big and heavy. An AD Chev is a very similar process. The parts are big and heavy so watch your fingers but not 4,000 lbs. Still pulling the engine and transmission as a unit is a fool's errand. Transmission jacks are your friend. So are smooth level floors. So are meatloaf dinners at the end of a cold winter's day.

The 261 was installed w/o transmission. Piece of cake. The transmission jack I borrowed with pitch/yaw/roll (?) was a dream come true. Perfect alignment was easily made.

I have bench pressed a tranny in place on a '54 Chevy Station wagon back when I was more capable. I have a friend with a tranny jack like that and it makes replacing the tranny in my F250 do-able. It weighs in at a bit over 200 lb. I could probably still bench press install the 3-speed in my '51, but don't plan on trying it.

GM considered making the SM-420 transmission out of reinforced concrete 6" thick, but some engineer figured out how to make it heavier using cast iron!
Jerry