The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop TCI 4-Link rear suspension for 3/4 Ton

This is what a assume:
1. You are keeping the outside style frame brackets and are going to mount them on the outside of the frame.
2. You are getting new axle brackets to weld on to some new dimension.......with a 1 deg up pinion angle.
3. You are keeping everything else.
4. The "communications" you are now having are EMAIL. NOT phone.
5. You are NOT getting any new written instructions but are getting the axle dimension by email, NOT phone.
6. You are not getting any new written instructions but are getting where to locate the outside frame brackets by Email....or are you supposed to use the 24.25 rod dimensions? and drill all new holes in the frame.

I recommend taking off axle brackets. Carefully.

Now we have a third frame width: 55-59 is 34". The outside style frame bracket you have is used on the 55-59 kit. The axle bracket dimension for 55-59 is 36. (2" wider than the frame). So on your 36" wide frame, using the same outside bracket, the new CL to CL for axle brackets should be 38".

Ask what the new dimension will be for the new axle brackets to see if they have their act together yet. Let us know what they say. Don't tip them off to the number. If they don't say 38", have them do the math with you.

Can you reword this question you asked them. I have no idea what it says. "When asked if the frame brackets included in the instructions that came with the kit were available for me to exchange the response was as follows,"

Who is going to do this rework????
Does your frame measure 36" wide at rear????

This time mock EVERYTHING up. Magnets, clamps, minimum tack welds, whatever. Till it ALL looks OK. The coilovers and ALL.

Don't forget the track bar and the crossmember that mounts the coilovers will also be wrong if they are for either a 55-9 or 54 half ton.

If you clamp your outside-the-frame brackets in place you can measure the distance between them to get the exact width for the axle brackets.

Mark

I think that TCI does not have a kit for a 1954 3/4 T Chevy truck but they don't know it. As Mark says, that coilover bar won't fit. The track bar is iffy as to it's length adjustability.
This is getting fun'er. Still have the leaf springs? It's not too late. You paid a hell of a lot of money to be treated like this. I would be hoppin mad. Depending on your answers from my last post, I would seriously consider getting a full refund and buy from someone else. After I found a Stovebolt member who has a 3/4 T AD and has done a 4 link.

Now here is the way a company should sell a kit. I don't know anything about the company or the kit. What I do know is they mention 1/2T and 3/4T and they mention the correct frame widths, they have you click on 1/2T or 3/4T and add which kind of shocks. TCI does a very bad job and sends wrong parts as I have documented on the Speedway link.
What's funny is that this company sells a lot of TCI kits!

Ok to answer the top assumptions,

1. I was planning on keeping the outside style frame brackets to mount to the outside of the frame.
2. Yes I (friend) was going to weld new axle brackets on (after a heavy mockup session)
3. Yes I am keeping everything else (right now)
4. All communications are now via email
5. I am not getting any written instructions. The quotes from my last post are literally copy and pastes from their email responses to me (no there is nothing but those one sentence responses in the emails)
6. No I am not getting any new written instructions on where to locate the outside frame brackets. At this point I think i'm on my own to figure it out with a mix of the instructions included and the 55-59 that i found online...

You are absolutely spot on when trying to account for the axle bracket width dimensions on my 36" wide frame. I actually need to check on the axle if I even have room to push out to 38" (thank you for bringing that to my attention. I've been swirling in frustration. I will most certainly send an email tonight to see what they say in response to that.

I was going to have to do the rework, or if all the measurements and mock up works up, i'll likely bring it to a friend that's a professional welder to ensure the new brackets are on appropriately.

Sorry on the confusion on the question I asked them. I'll try and clarify. If you look at the the incorrect instructions included (the ones that instruct the axle brackets to be at 33") the frame mounts are designed to go inside the frame (as shown in the illustrations). I asked them if they could provide me with the brackets that are shown in those pictures, the ones that mount inside the frame rail. They responded saying, and i quote the only thing in the email response was, "They exist but they are designed to work with the 55-59 chassis applications". Which honestly makes no sense at this point because I HAVE THE 55-59 BRACKETS THAT MOUNT OUTSIDE ACCORDING TO THEIR INSTRUCTIONS! (I am trying to not write to them what I really think of this process and their customer service)

I will add a picture of the shock mount crossmember that is at 35", on it it is written 47-53 3/4 ton (the 54 has the same dimensions as the 53). Which indicates to me that they do have a kit for the 3/4 ton but I really don't think they've thought through how this is supposed to work.

Most of that is good news. (I would be very happy if they say 38"). If the crossmember fits, good. Doing yourself, good. Not getting mad yet, good. It may just work out. Mocking up, good. You will know for sure then. Good work under disgusting circumstances. I commend you. You are correct to "be nice" so you get all the answers and new parts. Glad you have welder friend. You are correct that their answer makes no sense if they have said in writing to use the outside brackets. I think the axle brackets will have clearance unless the new diff is narrowed or something. thanks for now keeping us informed. Keep it up.

On the cut off, I would not necessarily try to cut exactly where weld meets tube. Stay back a ways and then slowly grind the left over weld. Do not get the tube hot. There are wheel bearings and seals that can get damaged if they have been installed. Keep cooling with shop air.

Some say I'm paranoid (I call it intuition and contingency planning), but I would not remove the axle brackets till this is all sorted out and mocked. You never know what TCI may come up with next.

Some of the shipping or management folks there are confused possibly because 55-59 1/2T and 3/4T frames are the same width. No need for two kits or mention of 1/2T, 3/4T.

The danger signal/RED FLAG is that they have no instructions for a 3/4T kit they allegedly sell. That is NOT possible or acceptable. It should have been on their computer long ago to print it out or link it. The only other living human I found that bought a TCI 3/4T kit was on Speedway Motors website and he said he got the wrong parts. A proper company would have a parts list. It would tell the employee what parts to build a kit. Each part would have a part number stamped on it and the assembly/kit would have a part number also. Does not matter if they are made to order. The fabber would have a drawing of each part (and the part number) necessary to make for a kit according to the parts list. BASIC manufacturing. This works even if parts are subbed out. I assume the founders of TCI have retired and the son's took over.

I would be cautious with fabquest as they are selling TCI parts. At least they seem to acknowledge the existence of 3/4 ton vehicles.

Yes, they sell TCI. That one I linked is from a company called Full Tilt Street Rods. I did not want to give a TCI example, that's for sure. They did say 44" and the GM data says 46" so that is a question that would need an answer.

I sent off a bit of a mass email to TCI today with my frustrations with the lack of clear instructions (respectfully obviously).

I have been back and forth with one of their fabricators/engineers this morning sending measurements and pictures of everything. I'm very impressed with how he's been handling things and has a very good understanding of the different frames and part measurements. Mounting the brackets inside the frame would make the brackets on the axle still incorrect from a width standpoint (ie they'd need to be 31" rather than the 33" they're currently welded at) He has proposed the following in order to avoid me messing up the custom axle.

"Hi,

It looks like about .900 per side. What we can do is make new bars with R joints in them from Ride tech that have swivels in the ends. So once you have everything set up I can calculate the angle and weld one end at an angle and put the R joint on the other end so there would be no bind. I would notch the frame a little and I can machine some spacers for the brackets."

So we'll see how all this shapes up here, but I think we're on the right track with the right guy. To be honest this is the type of service i've been hoping for, just needed to find the right guy at TCI.

Depending on what he means by that, it could be a disaster waiting to happen. If he's talking about shaving a little depth off the lower flange for shock clearance, that might be feasible, with correct taper, and possibly a reinforcement, but I'd be careful. There's got to be a better way than cutting the frame up, like extending the shock mount point to below the frame flange. That might require slightly shorter shocks, but would be a better solution, IMO.

If he thinks 38" is the right number for the outside brackets and you think there is good space and he agrees that it is an option and all the other parts can work, cutting them off and touching up the paint is what I would do. He is ad libbing and shooting from the hip. Kludging it together. This is just my opinion. I have been there and Kevin has been there when we made mistakes at our Design Engineering jobs. We knew we only had one chance to fix a screw up and you better do it right with the least impact on schedule, price, safety, reliability.........

From my house it seems like cutting off the axle bracket and so forth puts the assembly back into the original design intent. I do see that this TCI fella is struggling and has gone nuts. If he agrees that all the parts will work at 38"........cutting off the old axle brackets is NO BIG DEAL. Let him know that you are willing to do the cut off if that's all it takes. The axle bracket spread is 36" for 55-59. The 38" is only 1" per side wider. Should not impact design. If the shock crossmember and track bar will work.

I know I have said this before but I'm saying it again. If they sell a kit for a 3/4T truck, what is the reason for all this talk about cutting notches, maybe getting a swivel to work if he does some more calculating and etc.? What happened on the initial order that they can't ship the required parts. Unless you have traumatized them about the already welded brackets. Why can't you start over with a 3/4 T correct kit? I believe there is a secret they don't want to mention. Like: they never had a 3/4T kit. If he does not agree to the 38"/bracket cut off idea using the other parts with no modifications by you, it's time to get all your money back. You will have built a good email string to use in your request. Showing his made-up fix that is untested, never tried, odd ride tech parts, wrong angles, no instructions available, machining parts and has extra work and risk for you. His emails are the rantings of a mad man. I mean that with all due respect. I've been where he is. In trouble. Do not do what he is planning. As Kevin says, you will go down a road to a nightmare.
Think of it this way.........NO NO NO NO OH NO NO No

I agree with you in looking at it again. Ive written back to ask if all the parts will work at 38" on the axle brackets.

Im getting to the point that im becoming more and more weary with whatever they're suggesting. If the parts don't work at 38" then it's obviously time to go a different route.

My only question at this point is if moving the brackets out to the 38"mark will end up limiting my wheel and tire size? At 38" it leaves me 7"to the back of the brake caliper. That brake caliper sits about 3" wide, so that makes it 10" from the mounting surface to the side of the axle bracket.

I can't believe the 38" (38"-38.25) would be a problem for you. It's just a little wider than the frame. Pretty sure this is the answer.

Can you give me the dimension of one axle bracket width, outside to outside? and inside to inside? Thickness of metal?

Also need dimensions of the coilover crossmember. Over all length. Centerline to centerline and diameter of mounting tubes. (the ones that attach to the frame). Then the CL to CL of the Shock mounts.

If there are any modifications to your stock 1954 3/4 T frame or the axle width, whatsoever, now is the time to fess up.
You will have to calculate if the wheels fit.

Email from TCI:

"The kit you have will work and we can send you new axle brackets. Your frame is 36”wide so the bracket centers should be 38”. 2” wider than out side of the frame."

Coilover cross member:
Total length end to end: 35 1/2 inch
Cl to Cl of shock mounts: 24"
Cl to cl of mounting tubes: 34 5/8
Diameter of mounting tube: 1"

Axle bracket:
Bracket width outside to outside: 2 1/4"
Bracket width inside to inside: 1 2/3"
Metal thickness: 1/4"

Axle width in total: 60"

There are NO frame modifications and there will not be any, it is staying stock.

"Email from TCI:

"The kit you have will work and we can send you new axle brackets. Your frame is 36”wide so the bracket centers should be 38”. 2” wider than out side of the frame."

Coilover cross member:
Total length end to end: 35 1/2 inch Your picture with a tape measure seems to show more than 35 1/2? Be sure you take measuring more serious. You are the engineer/fabricator now. Start measuring dead nuts
Cl to Cl of shock mounts: 24"
Cl to cl of mounting tubes: 34 5/8 MISTAKE, REMEASURE
Diameter of mounting tube: 1"

Axle bracket:
Bracket width outside to outside: 2 1/4"
Bracket width inside to inside: 1 2/3" REMEASURE ...the only fractions allowed in mechanical design are those that have an equivalent on a U.S. inch scale. 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, 1/8 etc.
Metal thickness: 1/4"

Axle width in total: 60"

There are NO frame modifications and there will not be any, it is staying stock."

Things are looking good, Please provide the corrections above.

Please measure the portion of the frame brackets that receive the link. out to out, in to in, thinkness of metal.

Alright calipers are out and a non-harbor freight tape measure.


Coilover cross member:
Total length end to end: 35 5/8"
Cl to cl of mounting tubes: 33 7/8" (last post i had measured feom the 1"mark and forgot to subtract)


Axle bracket:
Bracket width outside to outside: 2 1/4" (2.27)
Bracket width inside to inside: 1.76-1.8" depending where on the bracket. Closest to the axle where the welds are is 1.81"
Metal thickness: .23" with paint on it

Frame brackets:
Total width where there brackets recieve the links outside to outside : 2.20" for lower link, 2.10" for upper.
Inside to inside: 1.80" and 1.70"
Metal thickness: .20"

Much better. Standard steel plate does not come in .20 or .23. We will call it 3/16 (.187) and/or 1/4 (.25) Your measurements are accurate, just tolerance, burrs, fabbing dents, etc. Good job.
The "calculated" inside frame to inside frame is 35.64. The O/A measurement for crossmember you gave is 35.625. So that's close, like .0075-.0000 per side close, but will be OK with a little trimming.

The actual CL to CL number for the new axle brackets is a little over 38" if they are supposed to match the frame brackets CL to CL. The mockup will self locate the parts. The fact that the frame brackets are slammed against the frame sets up the alignment of the axle brackets. An exact 38" is not necessary. Probably will end up between 38"-38 1/4". Then the rest of the parts are aligned from that portion of the assembly. Don't forget the pinion angle requirement. Piece of cake.

Do a complete mockup using every part. Every bolt. Before final weld. That way you spot little things you didn't think of. I.E. missing parts, wrong parts, extra fabbing, other crossmembers, any trimming, brake lines, wheels, tires, exhaust, bed mounts, coil spring clearance, wiring, ebrake, stance, symmetry..........
If you use locknuts, use regular nuts for mockup. Then the locknuts at final assembly. Read both 47-54 and 55-59 online instructions as you go, to get tips.

Regarding the lower mount for the shocks. Did they give you the 55-59 3 hole extension tabs or the 47-54 style? you will need the 55-59.

Looks like you are all set for a great outcome once you get the new axle brackets.

For those looking for an update. NEVER BUY THIS KIT IF YOU HAVE A 3/4 TON. THERE ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS.

I will do a thread with pictures if it ever comes together. TCI sent new axle brackets to weld on in order to accommodate the brackets going on the outside of the frame. (I held off welding them on in order to fit everything together first (smart)). I roll my built axle into place with the old 33" wide welded brackets and offset it so that one axle bracket will at least line up correctly with the frame bracket. So i go into the instructions they included saying the 4-link bars should all be set to 24.50" in length. at 22" the 4-link bars fall apart..... None of the TCI instructions outline what to do here, so it's clear you're on your own to center the axle and angle accordingly with the 4-links provided. By my guestimation they should be just fine and likely at that 20" mark give or take.

Next comes the frame brackets. So i read 3 different sets of chevy 4-link instructions, all state "Determining left and right side brackets: The lower 4-link bar hole on the frame brackets will be further forward than the upper holes and the brackets sit on the outside of the frame rail." No big deal right? Well it is when they send you two of the exact SAME frame brackets. My passenger side bracket lines up just fine, but take the mirror of that and my driver side lower 4-link bar hole is behind the upper.

Another email sent off to TCI... This is almost becoming laughable if it wasn't setting me back so much and so often.

Sounds like they put a bunch of random parts in a box, and shook it up and called it a kit. :can't look:
Stuff happens every now and then, but this is just nuts. TCI isn't going to make any money on your "kit", that's for sure.

I bought some camper tiedowns that slide into the trailer hitch frame, and one side didn't fit on the extender bar that was supposed to slide into the piece that went into the hitch. Got hold of them and rolled into the manufacturer's site on the way to pick up the camper and they swapped it out for me with no problems. They didn't have to ship anything that way.

Too bad you did not notice that way back, but I understand why. You never got that far. Sooner or later you will get the correct parts.
Also, I don't understand with both 47-54 and 55-59 kits at 24.50", what possible bars they could have sent?
At first I was thinking that their location of the frame bracket was wrong for your truck. But that does no explain falling apart at 22".

I agree with you on the 4-link bar lengths. Emails have been sent out to the techs. At this point they should be sending someone out to install the kit and take pictures so they can make a 3/4 ton installation guide.

TCI 4-Stink