The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 6500 - C60 Front axle swap

Hello,
Hats off to whomever developed and manages this site.

I have been reading over several of the threads and tech. tips on this site, I am following the post from “1949 Chevy 4400 Project” at the moment. The people in this community are geniune, have a great sense of humor and are filled with knowledge about these old truck. Thank you for sharing your experience and knoweledg so dreams can live on.

That all being said, I have a project:

1951 Chevy 6500 “Named Fred after original owner”

Fred is a “survivor” grain truck with original equipment : 2-Ton, 5-Window, 16’-0” Grainbed, 52,000 mi, 235 w/rochester carb, 4 speed flr., 2-speed rear axle, 8.5-20, 10-lug Dually, spit rims (4.5" Center Hole)

One of the primary concerns with fred is those large 20” split rims. The rims are in good shape but the reputation of the rims as widow makers has me concerned. (Any body still runnning with these rims, are they trully that dangerous?)

I have a friend who has a 1963 Chevy C60. The C60 frame is rotted out, so he has offered to donate parts from the truck as needed to support my pursuits.

Could a solution to my 4.5" Center / Split Rim issue be — Swap out front axle beam, humbs, breaks, rims, etc. from the 63’ and put it under the 51’?

I have seen the thread from Gigg’s that discusses the P-30 front axle swap but I do not know enough about these trucks to know if the 63' C60 is a viable option.
If the front axle from the 63 will work, then It would probably make sense to harvest the single speed rear axle also.

Is this overkill to get safer set of rims?

Your going to miss the two speed rear.

Tom

Tom,
TGP,
Thank you for the feedback.

Nice truck picks, those wreckers are cool. (Are those original front fenders?)

I am very new to all of this.

I am still in early stages of deciding what direction to take the truck.

I know I do not want the truck neutered. Making daily driver without sacrificing capacity would certainly be a goal.

Trying to learn as much as I can for now, so I can make good decisions.

Regarding your wheels, not all "split rims" are bad. The ones that come apart as two pieces are the killers. Search on "split rims" at the top of this page and you will get more info regarding what is safe and what is not. You can start with this thread, it has some pictures you should perhaps see:

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=351534&page=all

Regarding the two speed, I don't see how you could delete it and still retain capacity. Unless maybe you increased the engine size in a big way. It all depends on where you really want to go, you should decide for certain before you start changing things or you will do many things twice.

If you are going to keep the 235 then I would also keep the two speed rear as TPG and sweepleader have noted. My '57 two ton has the original 283 V8 with the four speed. 7.20:1 rear end and has plenty of power but 45 mph is top end.

Hy Clarence49 and guys. I echo what sweepleader said about your wheels, we need to determine just what you are dealing with, not all multipiece wheels are dangerous. I just want to make you aware that your truck has a fairly narrow front axle and the 63 front axle will be a lot wider, that will put at least part of your wheel/tire outside of your fender. Stick with us and give us the most information and maybe some pictures and we will help you all we can. Good luck.

A 261 engine would bolt right in, would help some. Look for tubeless(22.5) rims, work on P-30 front spindles, two speeds are almost all low and lower ratios, so don't waste your time there. A Brownie would really help, hard to find, though. A 292 would help even more, but about 3" longer than 235/261, but doable. NV-4500 OD trans would help if can pull it.

Ed

TGP, Sweepleader, 78buckshot,3B, Edpruss

First and foremost I hope you all had a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving. The weather in Ohio was spring like until Sunday.

Thank you all for responding to my inquary with good sound advice.

I will try to get some pics posted so you all can see what we are dealing with.

That being said, I did not get a chance to inspect the truck rims any further over the holiday.

I like the idea of retaining the two speed rear axle for a coulple of reason: Capacity, Resto-Cost and maintaining original components.

As far as keeping the 235. I actualy have not started the engine yet. Motor is free but carb. was pretty messed up, so I am rebuilding before making the attempt to start.

Keeping that in mind - I have a friend that told me about a 63’ Chevy dump truck that he has. The truck has been sitting in a field for the past 20 years. He has agreed to donate any part off the truck I need except for the dump bed. The truck is to supposed to have a 292 inline 6 w/carter carb, 4 speed on
floor, single speed rear axle with 4.10 gear and 8-17.5 modern steel rims. He said when he parked it, it ran and was able to achieve a top speed of 70mph.

I will need to do some further investigating to see what capacity the 63’dump truck is and if it actually has the above referenced equipment. The big if will be if the motor/block is still good and not siezed or cracked.

The plan would be to pull the trcuk from the field and trailer it to a location where we can look over things in detail and decide what is salvagable from the truck.

I really do like the thought of putting a 292 in the 51’.
I did run a hypothetical scenario with using a online RPM calculator.

I looked up the specs for the 1951 Two speed rear axle. Looks like the gear ratio I should have is 6.13:1 (H) & 8.10:1 (L)

I used a on line RPM calculator to see what kind of RPM I would push at 60mph, w/ 40” tires with a 4-speed manual transmission, it looks like around 3,090 RPM’s. I looked up the specs on the 292, Net HP 153@3600RPM & Net Torquelb-ft 255@2400RPM. Sio I don’t know if running at 3,000- 3200RPMS for any lenght of time would kill the 292 or not.

Not to worried about achieving HW-Speeds, but we do have some roads that are 50-55 and would like to be able to run those without backing up traffic.

I know I will need to pull some serial numbers and get you all some more information. I don’t want to get ahead of myself but any thoughts in regards to possibilties with equipment from the 63’

Let me know your thoughts

Thanks again for taking the time to get involved.

Nope, they want you to sign in. Why not use the Stovebolt image program? Instructions are in the left margin of every page.

Found Attachement Manager. Wll try again tomorrow. Thank you

I'm just guessing but I think the '63 might be a one ton based on the 4.10 rear end. If that is the case I wouldn't swap suspension/axle components. Oh, one other thing, sorry you had to come all the way up to Ann Arbor on Saturday just to beat us up again.

The link worked for me without signing in. Cool looking truck!

lol, you had the buckeyes worried there for while

Test 2

You got it. Thanks

Ok pic post was successful. I will work on getting some pics of rims.

78buckshot - Yes, the dump truck is 1 Ton. I agree the only thing I would want from the truck is the 292 If salvageable and the matching 4-speed.

Will create a new post with the pics of wheels to help identify what wheel we are dealing with.

Couple more pics from Fred basking in the sunset last night.

Nice, original truck.

Ed

Thank you. It was a bit of a journey getting it home, we still have a long way to go but a short time to get there

I really appreciate Grigg's refreshing the "Wheels and tires ---What to do?" Forum Post

That being said, I think Fred is sporting the 2-piece widow makers.

Can any one confirm by the pic's and Forum notes I attached.

To small to read...just post the rim pictures full size so we can see them.

Mike B

I have attached full size photos. If you need additional photos to help identify wheels let me know. Thank you

Hy Clarence49, Merry Christmas. I guess nobody else wanted to give you the bad news about your wheels, they are indeed Firestone RH5 Widow Makers. Please be extremely careful when working with them, I highly recommend deflating them completely before doing anything with them

Hy Clarence49, Happy Boxing Day (it's a commonwealth thing) I just thought I should mention before you started ripping apart your buddies 63, that the track width of that 63 front axle is probably a lot wider than your original axle, please take some measurements and compare.

Thank you 3B for confirming I have the Firestone RH5 Widow Makers.

With the holidays, weather and work I have not had the time to get out and visit the 51 project truck or the 63 donor truck.

I will try to get out and pull some dimension and see what I am dealing with.