I'm thinking of getting this. There are no reviews, so I thought I would ask here. Even if you don't have this, do you have any opinion? I have to spend money on a carb/ exhaust anyway so why not upgrade.My 235 has a recent rebuild but prior owner didn't get to this point.
P.T. Barnum would be proud of whomever wrote that ad copy. Try anchoring a battleship with two pieces of heavy chain with a few loops of baling wire holding them together. The cylinder head port design is the weak link, and no matter what is bolted on before or after that is going to make much difference. Anybody who promises to give me a "70% power increase" by selling me a bolt-on intake and exhaust system is lying. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The guy who told me about this said 20% increase and I had that in my head when I first saw it. Didn't even notice it said 70% till tclederman pointed it out. I just went to yelp to see if any reviews on Clifford performance. Not good,only 2 reviews and both 1 star with details.
When I was in college, a friend bought every mileage and power increasing device available in the J. C. Whitney catalog.
The problem was that after doing so, he had to stop at every gas station............................................to pump the extra gas from his tank into the tanks at the station
And Jerry, even Mr. Barnum would have not made the claim in the original post!!!! Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
Certainly false if the wording is taken literally (and in my opinion it's their intention). Missing from the text but assumed by Clifford "* when combined with other modifications*". These would include a very different cam and springs, extensive porting work, valve and valve seat mods, and (in a 235) stronger connecting rods. Not commonly performed but helpful: efforts to reduce cranking pumping loss and control oil behavior. Even so: the head, or specifically the intake port, is a dead end, even compared to other siamese ports of the same era. It can be made better, but it's limited by the design as well as the casting itself - adding 90 hp? When Satan skates to work. As to the product offered: It appears to be a synchronous (non-progressive, look at the geared throttle shafts) Weber - 38/38?, unlike the Pinto 32/36mm Holley 5200 frequently used in a different way. The large plenum volume will add some peak power. I'd give the supplied air cleaner a pass, but not 5 stars. The header is obviously an improvement (over anything but the Corvette exhaust), although I would have recommended 1/8" larger primary tube for the #2-3 and 4-5 exhaust ports. Still needs a distributor curve correction, either a mod to the original or an HEI etc. conversion. I've never driven or installed these parts, but the engine will deliver more power, and a very annoying variable ("what jets do I need?") is claimed to be resolved. Unless you have a Plan B...? It will be faster afterward, if that's the goal.
* you'll find this disclaimer at the bottom of many speed equipment claims going back 70 years.
The "why not?" part would be easily answered for me by the $1329 price tag. I did a similar upgrade to my 292 but I used parts I picked up here and there for cheap. I probably have $200 in it. I don't have any idea about power/torque increase because I don't have a dyno and I don't drive it hard but I do get 18 mpg with an OD transmission. I have a small holly 4 bbl, offy intake, and split stock exhaust.
'64 swb stepside (gone) '57 1 ton '53 phone truck '59 swb '46 1 1/2 ton '68 swb gmc
If you're going to be buying a different carburetor, much has been posted here regarding the various choices. Given the various peculiarities I think you might be better with a Carter and which model depends on whether you want a manual choke or an automatic choke...
~ Jon 1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235 | T5 with 3.07 rear end
I don't have the Clifford Single carb set up, but I do have the clifford dual 38/38 weber set up on one of my vehicles with a 261. The manifold is excellent, the casting polishes up beautifully. Provisions for vacuum for the wiper or gauges whatever, and provision for water heat to the bottom of the intake. The dual set up runs pretty good on the 261,but the 261 is really modified. Personally, I think the dual 38s are probably a bit too big for a 235 but I have not used them on a 235 so I don't know that would be the case for certain. On the other hand if you are looking for good highway gas mileage, these dual 38/38 carbs are not for you, all the bbls open at the same time and they can run through some fuel.
Now on a single 38/38 carb application on the Clifford, I think that might be very workable. While I don't believe a single 32/36 progressive is enough for even a 235, I do believe a single 38/38 non-progressive would be enough and would be a pretty good carb to run on the Clifford manifold (but not on a stock intake with an adapter - too big for the adapter)
So for duals on a 235, I think the 32/36s I think are a better a better choice for a 235 if you want dual carbs, on a Clifford or a vintage intake with adapters. I ran an old weiand 2X1 with adapters and a pair of 23/36 pinto carbs for well over twenty years. They ran great right out of the box. No real fussing and they looked great. If you want the look of a dual carb set up for cruising around, you can do it less expensively with a vintage manifold, adapters and the pinto carbs.
Single 38/38 on the Clifford, I think that would run well.
Finally, you could also call Clifford and ask him if he will sell you a dual intake and carb plates and run a pair of 32/36 carbs on a 235.
I currently run to cow (for stomach) magnets on my fuel line as close to the carb as I can. After looking at the science, it makes perfect sense to me after reading about it!
"I currently run to cow (for stomach) magnets on my fuel line as close to the carb as I can. After looking at the science, it makes perfect sense to me after reading about it!"
I wonder if that will work with modern lead-free gasoline?
Only if you place the magnets so they oppose each other. If they stick together, they will cut your gas mileage in half! LOL! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Extra points if you use the clothespins to hold a wrap of aluminum foil on! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Just for you, I will do it and take a picture! How many clothespins are the minimum? I wonder if I can find wood clothespins somewhere..... these guys will be so confused! Lol
So let me get my verbiage correct. The clothes pins have a dual purpose.
1. Holds the aluminum heat shield in place to keep fuel cooler. 2. Clothes pins increase the surface area to help disapate heat allowing it to cool better.
Anything I should add? Other than me fighting to keep a straight face?
We actually still use them- - - -got a clothesline and everything! Walmart has 'em by the dozen! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Would that help my non-existent vapor lock? I do not see how they would help to orient the gasoline molecules for more efficient movement and combustion? I forget why I started using them. (but, they sure do look nice)
Does Chris's question make this thread wander too far?
But doesn't the fact that these ideas (and products) persist for many decades prove that there is some scientific and practical merit to them? No. How so? Women drive.
Hopefully, the original poster will understand that the general consensus here would be that there are better places to spend money.
Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
Hopefully, the original poster will understand that the general consensus here would be that there are better places to spend money.
Jon.
Here is/was my thinking (I'm the OP). I need a new carb, intake, and exhaust. I have priced around for NEW parts and the 1,325 didn't seem that high. Jim Carter has just the Clifford intake at $525. Compared to if you were the buy here and there and make your own combination, and then hoping it all works. I kinda like the idea of buying whole package that I would assume is all made to go with each other. I am a body guy/ fabricater not a mechanic. The only poster here that had a Clifford system seem to be very positive. Carbking, Do you know of a package deal that that would be a better fit for me?
Why do you 'need" a carb, intake and exhaust? If yours is missing, there are literally thousands of original equipment items available at very reasonable cost (sometimes free from a sucker who spent $1325.00 he didn't need to), and those originals were engineered to actually work right, not line some vendor's pocket with your hard-earned dollars. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Doot - A fact alluded to but probably not really stated in this thread is that a new carburetor, a new intake, and a new exhaust manifold, regardless of what is used, is only going to give modest gains.
The cylinder head is the weak link in trying to promote performance gains.
There are many threads on these forums about the cylinder head bottle neck. There are some really talented folks on here that have tried on kinds of tricks to make the cylinder head productive, and failed. Use the search engine. This topic has really been beat to death, always with the same result.
So, options:
(1) Enjoy the truck as it was built, maybe add a little eye candy; but recognize the limitations. (2) Drop in a different 6 (261, or 292 Chevy, or maybe a GMC). (3) Throw caution (and capital) to the winds, and drop in a (horrors) SBC
Like Jerry mentioned, if your intake, carb, and exhaust are either missing or not usable, lots of original equipment stuff available for cheap. Maybe swap the Rochester for a Carter (about the same power, but better fuel economy and reliability.
Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify. If you truly believe "one size fits all," try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! The Carburetor Shop
We've had a lot of fun with this... I looked at the website and the picture. The first thing I noticed was the manifold gasket is wrong. It's for a 12-port application and our 216/235/261 engines are not 12-port. Look closer at the intake. Maybe the kit pictured is for a 230/250/292? If anyone mentioned that already, sorry I missed it.
John (carbking) is spot on. The head and intake ports cannot be made to flow well enough to support a lot of increase in HP or torque. Lots have tried, myself included, but the limitations inherent in the design of the motor prevents any real drastic improvements. That being said, a lot of things can be done to improve that situation, understanding that these are modest improvements. In addition, you have to ask yourself what you intend to do with your truck and the motor in your truck. If you are just toying around the neighborhood, then the stock set up is probably right. If you like to tinker, then you might want to fool around with dual carbs or a single carb of some other design. If you like to put your foot into it, then you will go to some other extremes. I tend to have my foot in the gas pedal so I like to really mess with the motor and I really really like the look of multiple carbs on these motors so I have almost always had them on my motors. I also like to dress them up and tinker with vintage speed equipment. Its just what I like. You should tinker with what you like. Life is short. If you want to tinker with the Clifford intake, you should. There will come a time when you can't. Frankly, when that day comes, and it will, the dollars you spent to tinker and enjoy the hobby will not mean a darn thing.
This is one of my motors, a 261. I have built similar motors for cars and trucks for over 40 years. I love it. Its all in what you like and so let your gut guide you and go have fun.
The first thing I noticed was that the intake is for a 4 barrel, with an adapter needed to bolt the 2 barrel Weber on. That's another slow pitch right across the middle of the plate for anyone with a couple of working brain cells to knock out of the ball park. The whole mess is a cobbled-up hodgepodge of parts, overpriced, and presented with obvious lies as a sales pitch. I guess some people who think "upgrading" involves bragging about how much money they've spent would be deliriously happy with that package. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The first thing I noticed was that the intake is for a 4 barrel, with an adapter needed to bolt the 2 barrel Weber on. That's another slow pitch right across the middle of the plate for anyone with a couple of working brain cells to knock out of the ball park. The whole mess is a cobbled-up hodgepodge of parts, overpriced, and presented with obvious lies as a sales pitch. I guess some people who think "upgrading" involves bragging about how much money they've spent would be deliriously happy with that package. Jerry
Didn't mean to sound like bragging. I didn't buy it I was just asking what others thought of it. I get it, this package is over priced and not needed. Thats why I asked here. Thanks for all the replys!
I don't think Jerry was directing his comments at you specifically. BTW guys is this horse dead enough?
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. The three main causes of blindness: Cataracts, Politics, Religion. Name your dog Naked so you can walk Naked in the park.
Air fuel mixture route on any Siamese port Stovebolt head: air comes in the side of the typical oil bath air cleaner and turns NINETY degrees to go down to oil surface, turns ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY degrees to rise to level of carb throat, NINETY degrees to position over carb, NINETY degrees to travel down through carb, NINETY degrees to enter runners, and finally NINETY degrees to enter intake port. Air flow on a V8 with a K&N funnel type air filter and single plane intake manifold: straight down through carb, one FORTY FIVE degree turn and it's at the intake port. If one must hot rod an inline six at least start with the 225 Chrysler Slant Six or the even better Ford 240/300. Paint it Chevy color, stick a Bow Tie on the valve cover, and keep the thousands in your pocket you world have spent trying to make a lousy design (for racing) Bow Tie go fast. If you're going to haul hay or pull a load then stick with the Chevy. As Dirty Harry said "you got to know your limitations".
Now I’m curious about the design of another manufacturers 300 cubic inch engine. Curiosity may kill this cat or a reprimand for getting off topic. 😘
Last edited by tom moore; 01/25/20192:38 PM. Reason: Dropped the Ford reference
Not to stray too far off course; in the 40s-50s Ford's short-lived 226 flathead inline six had 12 ports. Not withstanding the L-head design, it was a good engine that matched the V8 in torque and had only 5 fewer horsepower.
The last four posts referenced Fords, what’s up with you guys anyway? Chevy/GMC has no “f” anywhere in it!
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
Air fuel mixture route on any Siamese port Stovebolt head: air comes in the side of the typical oil bath air cleaner and turns NINETY degrees to go down to oil surface, turns ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY degrees to rise to level of carb throat, NINETY degrees to position over carb, NINETY degrees to travel down through carb, NINETY degrees to enter runners, and finally NINETY degrees to enter intake port.
You missed the last (and possibly the worst) of the turns. After the incoming charge hits the back wall of the intake port and becomes disrupted it needs to negotiate another turn down towards the valve. This last turn is usually referred to as the short side turn as the radius is only 1/8" at that corner.
double doot: yes, I'm running it on a 261, upgraded from a 1960 or '61 stock 235 about 5 or 6 years ago, I would have to go back to the paperwork to see exactly; I can if you're really that curious. I got it dyno tested on 7/11/2020. The best pull was 128.91 hp at 3479.66 rpm and 225.93 ft-lbs at 2678.11 rpm to the rear wheels. I've found mixed information on what a stock 235 pulls to the rear wheels, but I'd be interested to know if somebody has that handy...
