The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Is this cab worth saving and if so how to deal with the cab corners

This is my first resto/mod. To put it bluntly I am not a body man and relative newbie to wire welding. I have the bed and the fenders and hood ready. I sent the cab and frame out to be blasted last weekend. Got them back and I am wondering how to fix the rear cab corners that have already been previously repaired, discovered some pin holes I did not exist in the back panel as well and am wondering is this cab worth saving? The front half of the floor pan, rockers and inner/outer cowls are already on the list to be replaced.

A bit of history, this truck was a farm truck that had some work on it YEARS ago. I believe they brazed new metal corners over the existing rotted out corners with brass (looks gold after sandblasting) and they have held up quite a while. Even after blasting they are still very solid, but do see some small holes on the bottom of the passenger side one. Driver side is solid, but the bottom back side looks like they globbed a bunch of filler on it but the metal is still very solid everywhere. Not crazy about how they look on the inside as you can see original rotted metal (which has now been sandblasted) and the previous repair indentation.

All that being said, is it worth fixing all this. We salt the roads in these parts and I have not found a decent cab anywhere remotely close online been checking sporadically the last few months as I have worked on other parts. If the cab is worth saving, how to deal with these cab corners as I don't believe new cab corners are going to be tall enough to cut out and replace all the previous work, plus would need to deal with the few pin holes along the bottom weld seam at the back by the bed.

Here are some pics:

Drivers side cab corner outside
Drivers side cab corner inside
Drivers side cab corner underneath
Drivers side cab corner underneath2

Passengers side cab corner outside
Passengers side cab corner inside
Passengers side cab corner underneath
Passengers side cab corner underneath2

Pin holes in back panel bottom weld seam outside
Pin holes in back panel bottom weld seam inside

fyi- Here is a picture of the truck when I started

Yep, pretty ugly repairs.
If it was me I might consider a complete rear lower cab panel, which includes the corners all the way around to the lock pillars and up to the belt line.
All that crap has to be cut out to do it right. A complete back panel would be the simplest, requiring the least butt weld joints.
Or you could slobber some more filler on it and hope the rust doesn't eat thru in your lifetime.

I was actually considering that, but have not seen pics or a video of someone doing one of those. Was wondering how bad that job is

I think it would be an easier job than installing two outer cab corners, especially if you have to cut out some hack's previous repair.There are bolts along the belt line, but the panels are also spot welded along the belt line as well. The complicating thing is the upper and lower outer panels are welded together first and then the inner upper panels are welded to the outers at the belt, covering the previous weld joints.If the upper part of the back panel (below the belt line) is sound, you could cut below the belt line and weld in the patch panel with a butt weld there and plug welds along the lock pillar.

I would love to see a post where someone has replaced one of those to see how those are welded together and how they got them apart without tearing up the top half or inside panels.

I think there's a video out there of a couple of guys building a new cab from the individual panels. That would give you some ideas.

Here you go: Cab build video Unfortunately, it doesn't cover the rear that well.

This is probably a little too far away for you -- 850 miles - but thought others might be interested also.

Old Car Junkyard - Great Bend, KS

Wow. I am drooling over that place. Definitely wish it was closer so I could go check it out. I actually called and talked to him. Seems like a nice guy. A decent cab runs around $2K. Shipping to me via a freight broker would be another $800 or so he thought.

Jason, assuming you are not going to find another cab. None close and they all have their problems.

1. Nothing in your pics is unusual. Quite typical. You will have to do a whole lot of computer searching and watching all kinds of videos to get used to techniques and how to analyze rust, cut spot welds, penetration, patch and weld and grind and fill.
2. We can't judge a repair that you say is globed with filler but still solid.
3. First rule is do not fix any more than is rusted. Do not cut out any more than is rusted except to get a better weld access or to a flange. Use only parts of a patch panel to achieve this rule. A pin hole is bigger than you think. The edges around it are real thin. Drill them to a small size that can be welded shut. 1/4 or less. This plug weld will need a copper backing to let the weld build, unless you are a real expert. The weld will not stick to the copper. If you have to make a dozen little patches or one long thin patch, that's what you have to do. (see option below)
4. If an area is bigger than the patch will reach, fabricate the rest or buy two and use some of second one to extend the first. Left over patch metal is good to use for other patching.
5. Be careful of floor repair, it will allow the cab door openings to change geometry if not braced.
6. Don't know why sandblaster left globulations.
7. You can't mig near/on braze.
8. Figuring out how and how much to repair, is an age old question all of us face all the time.
9. You need to practice up on welding thin metal before getting into this. Trying different gauge wire and settings. Then get a good feel for it. You will burn thru while patching your cab so be prepared for that.
10. Cab repair area needs to be raised high enough to sit comfortably in a roll around chair and have real good lighting. You need an angle grinder, die grinder, cutting discs, sanding discs, good air supply. Electric wire wheel or two. Copper backing material. Money.

Option to consider:
If you can stand the thought, you are not a purest and the back of patch will not be seen: If you have a rust repair where you have drilled a hole to eliminate the rust-out or you have cut out a relatively small piece, you don't have to spend all day trying to cut a piece to fit. Just cut a piece bigger than the "hole" and put it on behind as a backing plate/patch and weld it on from the front. No burn thru, no butt welding, no shadow/shrink line and easy for a beginner. This is basically a lap weld. (Most of your repairs will be butt welds.) On the back side, cover with fiber filled filler to seal, and paint. (or any other sealing method). The backside will be a raised area so, as I said, it needs to be in an area no one will see. It is, however, a solid metal fix and is nothing to be ashamed of. If the front is not filled in completely with weld, the remainder will only be .040-.050 deep, so filler it. Don't weld around the backer on the backside. Let it float. Also welding that can cause too much warpage.
I'm not talking flanging. Don't do that unless patch panels are designed for that in unseen areas.

@bartamos - Many thanks for that reply. Very much appreciated. To be honest it gives me confidence/confirms my own thoughts on the process. I have been reading blogs/posts and watching videos I swear every day since about last February as I been making my way to this stage of the rebuild knowing the cab was going to be the toughest part for me especially. I got a piece of leftover scrap replacement floor plan material from a local body shop I have been practicing my welding on, especially butt welds. I have not however practiced grinding them down, dressing them and making them disappear!

I especially appreciate your point #7. I did not know that, and wouldn't intentionally try it but will definitely be on the look out for it now!

On point #10, what is the copper backing material? I have not seen that. I did see a this blog here he smashed out a copper plumbing tee and used some vice grips to wedge it on the back side of his weld on a long flat butt joint to dissipate heat. That is the only one I have seen use that. Was wondering if that was what you meant or if you had an example?

fyi-
Based on this pic here, assuming all replacement cab corners are the same, these look to be larger than I thought and may cover a lot more of what I need than I originally thought including the worst of the "pin holes" area on the lower back panel on the passenger side.

They sell backing plates with handles. Eastwood has one with built in magnets, that's cool. I use copper pipe flattened. They are long and can be bent and rebent to fish up into place and held with one hand or a magnet or a stick or a jack. They are kind of "heat sinks", but more importantly they just allow you to keep welding until the gap or hole is closed, as a temporary backing plate. The weld builds instead of burning the edge away (burn thru).

Your link shows a fellow making a "heat sink". Which he says dissipates the heat. Probably not much. He has it "pressed" up against the area. Futile effort not to be used as a guide. A heat sink must have many fins and be in tight intimate contact and be thick. This brings up a very important point I forgot. You want to ONLY weld stacked spots. (spot stitch). One spot here and one spot there. Far apart. Then start to weld onto about 1/3 of a spot to create a continuous weld. Do not bead weld anything thin. If you see a guy doing that on YouTube, ignore it. The key to remember is to wait. Even if the next weld is far away. Wait until the metal is cool enough to touch. This can be seen as over kill. But you only have one cab and one patch at a time so why would you even dare take a chance on warping. Once it is warped, you are done, you are in deep trouble. Do not get in a hurry. It will get done.

Grinding can cause much heat. Not nearly as much as welding but you can warp with grinding. This is where an air gun can be used to cool the grind so as to continue. Grind with a die grinder and switch to sanding when getting near parent material. It is very easy to thin out the material by over grinding. So be careful. It's all very satisfying and rewarding therapy.

Remember, 50% of Mechanic'in is learning how to fix a screw up in a professional way.

Those are awesome tips. Would give anything to know someone that lives close to watch them for a few hours/day to learn the ropes instead of the youtube route! One other question, I have seen in a lot of the videos, blogs I have read they use clecos. They seem quite handy and easy to use, is it worth buying some? Saw a great demo video where a guy shows how to use on 2 little pieces of metal to get a good joint for butt welding.

No! Those Clecos need a hole which would need filling and are used for lap riveting. Waste of time and money. The were invented for riveted assemblies. A 1/8 rivet hole is the same size a cleco wants. Aircraft and aerospace riveters use them. I use regular welding clamps. Magnets, tape, vise grips. I used to use these but I don't anymore. Many times there is no access for them. If you use them, you can grind down the blade for a tighter gap.

I want to say that guy has a good idea on how to hold parts together but I can't. All he as to do is lay the parts down and butt them together with his glove hand and tack weld them.....or use the other holding methods I listed. Very, very weird presentation. He holds the two parts with his hand when drilling. He cuts the super scribe line with tin snips and I assume he is going to drill three holes in the other piece to reattach the clecos? Maybe there is a far reaching "collision repair guy" reason for all this that I don't see. I would never do any of that.

If I was going to buy any more holding tools, I would buy from this series of tools.

Clecos worked well for me. I just made the holes I needed at places where spot welds were going to happen.

I've got some clecos, but haven't got to where I could use them yet. Another option is self-drilling sheet metal screws. They do the same thing as a cleco, but in one operation. I will likely try that as well. Hex head screws and a nut driver in a drill motor.

You bet I'm interested. I'll be going near there next spring and may stop by. Looks like an awesome yard.
Thanks for the link. I've got him spotted on my trip map.

Another good resource for "learnin' up" on body work and welding is any of MPandC's posts here in the Paint and Body Shop forum. Robert is a metal forming artist. He also has some fantastic threads on the Garage Journal Board, including this MEGA THREAD. Put on a couple pots of coffee and spend some time there.

Thanks for the link on that thread @klhansen! Will definitely check it out! Thanks for the pic as well @MNsmith! @bartamos, thanks as well! I bought those same clamps at HF, but have yet to use them. Seems like you would always have gap using them was my thoughts and why I thought the clecos looked interesting. I am one of those people that over research/over think everything to death before I start trying to start with the best possible setup/tooling I can first.

Definitely appreciate everyones input/tips as I fully admit to having no idea what I am doing!

Full disclosure: I am sucker for new tools!

I've blasted vehicles like this for the past decade, and I've seen guys try and save things that look like they've been buried for 20 years, holes the size of a basketball on the side panels, and looking like it grows rust. This truck (in the original picture) would be considered museum quality compared to what I've blasted. In short, this truck is worth your time. I'm working on uploading some pictures of the work I've done to my website so you guys can take a look at the Frankensteins i've restored. Hopefully in a few months I'll upload them, heres my website where i'll post them: https://www.markleysprecision.com/dustless-blasting-services

Had not been on the site in a while. Your post reply got me back on it. I posted another question about restoring the speaker grille and glove box lid. One of the replies on their asked for original pics of it when I had not looked at in a while. As I said on that post, I am in a bit of shock. You think you aren't making progress and will never get it done. I had obviously forgotten just how bad of shape it was in when I started. I have most of these panels cut out and screwed in now. It is starting to take shape.

Original Interior
Blasted Cab Off Frame
Rusted Floor Cut Out
New Front Inner and Outer Cowls Screwed In
Rocker Panel and Rear Cab Corner Screwed In

Some of the body work I watched in the Philippines was awesome. Those guys worked in dirt-floor shops with concrete castings of the parts they were making, flat sheet metal, and ball peen hammers. A little guy who looked like he might be 12 years old would squat over one of those concrete forms and tap away for 12 hours a day until he had a perfectly formed Jeep fender, or other body panel. Look up "Jeepney" on the internet sometime to see what they were building.
Jerry

Man Jason you've been busy. I'm jealous at the progress you've made since back in November when you started this thread.
Unfortunately, I'm not moving at all on my project after my garage got trashed by our earthquake. Still trying to clean up the mess.

But I think you missed an opportunity to leave that sign in the passenger side kick panel from the original interior pic.

Thanks. I am trying to figure out what to do with that sign! It seems like I should do something with it... Hopefully everyone and the cars were OK from the earthquake!

Everyone fine and no real damage, Thanks. Just today, I was looking for my welding helmet and it's missing in action. Buried somewhere in the mess.