The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline 3:55 Ring & Pinion Time Line

Hello all,

I just have a couple more things to gather together, before swapping out my stock 4:11, to the Patrick's 3:55 Ring & Pinion. I have a 53 3100. My question, to all that have made this swap, how long did it take to do? I guess I am asking how many hours of labor? I understand that, you find that you don't have the right tool. So, you have to go buy or borrow one. Or, you may have had to wait for another gasket, that you didn't figure on replacing. Barring any hiccups, how long from starting the tear down, to driving it again?

As always, thank you for your help and guidance in advance.

Rugo

Way too many years have gone by since I did mine to remember anything regarding timeline, etc. Will say that while you have the chunk out of the rear axle housing, you might consider installing a drain plug to make life easier in the future when you want to replace the rear end oil.

Craig,

Thanks for the tip. Pretty good idea. Nice looking truck, by the way.

Rugo

Did you get parts from patricks. If so when. I have been waiting a long time. If not were did you get your parts from. Thanks

Did you know that the ring gear bolt hole circle on a Canadian carrier is slightly different than the US version? Your carrier needs modification to mount a 3:55 ring gear unless you use one from a US truck.

As for the OP's question I farmed out bushing replacement/gear setup to an old guy with tons of experience and it was done in a day. He did stress that the old bushings were extremely stubborn to remove.

Rugo, did you get your parts from Patrick's?
If yes, when?

In a round about way, I did get the whole set up from Patrick's. A friend in Oregon, where I am from, bought it from a guy that had purchased from Patrick's several years ago. When Patrick's actually sent products that you paid for. He thought he was going to use it in a truck he had. Then decided not to. My friend bought it for me, from him. Hope that all makes sense. Anyway, it is a Patrick's 3:55 Ring & Pinion, with all of the bearings, shims and gaskets. I have gotten by the first 57 years of my life without a dial indicator. But, it appears that I am going to have to break down and buy one. I think that I will either be able to borrow or have the rest of the tools necessary to complete the install. Just want to have a good idea, how long it takes to do. That's where you guys come in.

Thanks for your help and guidance.

Rugo

1/2 day to tear it down, then one day to let a pro do it, then 1/2 day to put it back in.

.......depending on how many suds you have either before or after the first 1/2 day.
Having someone do it is worth the money. No growling and howling later. We have a local guy who builds ring and pinions everyday and is reasonable. (In Greenville S.C.)

Alvin's estimate is realistic, if you have done this before (with my notes/comments/suggestions in italics, below):

1/2 day to tear it down (and clean all parts)

1 day to let a pro do it (1/2 day if you do it (with a friends help) - if you have done it before)

1/2 day to put it back in at most, if you have done this before, and all parts are clean.
...... depending on how many suds you have either before or after the first 1/2 day
no more than one beer per hour - lite beer (yuck) if you must drink beer on-the-job

The dial gauge and stand is available at Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, online search (eBay, etc), etc . . .
Prussian-blue (or, equivalent) is available in small tubes at most auto stores.

Most likely, you have read Sweet's Tech Tip on Stovebolt.com?

I did the 3.38 set in my 56. i got a new 3rd member from Hidden Valley Auto Parts and the R&P from eBay. i dropped all of this off at a transmission/axle shop where they rebuilt the assembly and swapped out the gears. I still used the truck during this time and saved a few bucks by telling the shop it was no rush and to do the job as fill-in work.

When it was all set it was a half day to change over the whole assembly. then I sold my original 3.90 3rd member to offset the cost

When I started this thread, I was really thinking of doing all myself. Maybe have a friend help with some of the heavier stuff. As I am reading your posts, I am starting to see a theme here. Most everybody took the third member to a pro, to do the internals. One thing that I am sure of, is that will be able to follow the drinking some beer, with the project. At this point, that is the only part that I am sure of. Starting to warm up to the idea of taking it to a pro. Perhaps I will do some checking around my area, to see if that is going to possibility. Thanks for everybody's input. I really appreciate it.

Tim, I appreciate you attaching Sweet's Tech tip to your post. That is one of three instruction sheets, that I have been reading over.


Rugo

Rugo, Check out Deve's info on this

Rusty,

Thank you for attaching Deve's link to your post. I have Deve's, Sweet's, and the instructions sheet that came with the ring and pinion kit. They all produce the same result, but all achieve it a bit differently. Been trying to take a bit from them all of them. Still trying to talk myself into doing the whole job myself. Except for maybe some help from buddy to wrestle some of the big awkward parts around. If anybody out there has done the whole job themselves, I am still interested in how long it took them.

Thanks again, for everybody's input and advice. The only part I am sure that I will excel at, is the beer drinking portion of it.

Rugo

The time it takes is directly related to your skills experience , your tools/equipment and rate at which you work.

The other estimates given are on track........and are as close as your going to get.

“1/2 day to tear it down (and clean all parts)

1 day to let a pro do it (1/2 day if you do it (with a friends help) - if you have done it before)

1/2 day to put it back in at most, if you have done this before, and all parts are clean.
...... depending on how many suds you have either before or after the first 1/2 day
no more than one beer per hour - lite beer (yuck) if you must drink beer on-the-job”

I've never been able to do a good job of either working or drinking, if I try to do both at once. I have been called on to correct the mistakes brought about by a few episodes of "Budweiser Fever", however!
Jerry

So, I contacted a professional, that was recommended to me. He tells me that if I took the 3rd member, with the drivel line still attached, it would take him somewhere between 5 and 6 hours, at $85, an hour. To tear it all down, assemble and set it up. Or, if I wanted to take the drive line and bearings off. Then all he would have to do, is assembly and set up. That should be about 3 hours of labor. For you guys that have taken just the 3rd member to a pro, does this sound reasonable? I have no reference, when it comes to something like this.

As always, thanks for your help and guidance.

Rugo

^^^^^sounds like the contacted professional does not understand that this is a torque tube rear end where the third member is the entire rear end assembly with drive shaft.. Your not able to bring in just the “pumpkin”........you bring in the drive shaft ( torque tube ) and the differential as an assembly. That said three hours is not crazy expensive.

"So, I contacted a professional, that was recommended to me. He tells me that if I took the 3rd member, with the drivel line still attached, it would take him somewhere between 5 and 6 hours, at $85, an hour."

Rugo,

Maybe you could think of it as paying yourself $400+ to learn a new skill. There are plenty of online tutorials on how to do the job. If you look at one of them you'll see how simple it is. Because it uses shims rather than a crush sleeve the Chevy gear set is simple to install. The only "special" tool required is a dial indicator to measure ring gear - pinion "backlash" (clearance). The gear tooth contact pattern is easily shown by smearing artist's oil paint on the teeth.

You can do it!

......originally I said take it to a professional but at $85 an hour, and the number of hours he quoted, I think I'd have to live or die by my own hands. I guess I live in a dream world where I have buddies/friends that will do that for me and if they charge me anything maybe a hundred bucks.....some would say you buy the next hot dogs and Pepsi. Victoria always told me I was a lucky man to have so many friends....maybe she is right?

Fella's,I appreciate the feedback. My original plan was to do it myself. But, as this thread progressed, more and more of you guys suggested taking it to a "pro". That sounded appealing, until the "pro", told me how much it would cost. I was hoping for something closer to a $200, and they tore down the third member, drive line, reassembled and set it up for me. All I would need to do was take it out and put it all back together. Going to check one more place, before making my final decision. Yar, I do appreciate your encouragement. There is a real sense of accomplishment, when you complete the project, yourself. That is usually after considerable swearing, some brews and a cigar or two. Just sayin.

Thank you guys for your advice and your guidance.

Rugo

I will add my experience. I did my first rear end rebuild on a 1956 Chevy truck when I was 15. It was a disaster. Started loud growling almost immediately. I was heavily involved in drag racing for about 25 years and always used professional services for the rear gears. After waiting many months for the Patrick's gears for my 1952 I decided to take on the task myself with the info available online. I had to take it apart 3 times to get the right shims. I ended up using less then half of what Patrick suggested as a starting place. I called Patrick and asked about the shims. I was told what I used could not be correct and I must have screwed up something. I put it together with what I thought was correct but was very nervous about the job at first. It has now been several years and several thousand miles later and everything is working perfectly. Other than Patrick scaring me I found the job to be relatively easy but I wasn't in any hurry.

"Yar, I do appreciate your encouragement. "

Rugo,

Once you do one of these jobs like the one you're contemplating you discover that except for extremely specialized work like chrome plating and window glass cutting you really don't need the "professionals" for anything. The reason their hourly fees are so high is because helpless people feel like they have no other alternative. Because I'd learned previously how to install ring gear and pinion sets the modification to my restored '36 Chevy pickup described in the article linked below took some time but there was nothing that was beyond what a motivated amateur could do at home:

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/334876/1936-chevy-3-55-rear-gear-conversion.html

As I said in my previous post "You can do it". When people tell you that you can't do something what they're really saying is THEY can't do it.

If you have a good attention to detail, I say try it yourself. Reason being is assembling the axle is straight forward, it’s the adjusting to get it right that takes time. Ask lots of questions here and I think you’ll be surprised that you can do this yourself.

I have done many and others reading have as well. Take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and ask lots of questions.

Between the directions that came with the gears and the supplement in the Techtips section here you’ll have a good baseline to start from.

3:55 swap

Sweet, Thank you for the encouragement and vote of confidence. I have your 3:55 instructions saved on my computer, as well as printed out for quick referencing. Thank you for taking time to provide such valuable information on the Stovebolt page. With all of the guidance and advice from this site, I believe that I can see the project through to completion. Trying to gather the necessary tools together. Then, I will have to find the time to get it done. Thanks again everybody for your help and guidance. I really appreciate it. Rugo

Rugo, Please let us know how it's goes. The Pros & Cons. And Lots of pictures too. Todd

I had a noise in my rear end and decided this was a good time to do a 3.55 R&R

While doing the R&R on my 1953 3100, I have a couple comments:

Before removing the assembly from the torque tube, I decided to check back lash, it was at .030, way to much why? Time will tell here (pic1)

When removing the driveshaft and pinion assembly, I noticed where the noise in my rear was coming from, missing are 6 ball bearings in the front (thick) pinion bearing (see pic 2),

Purchased my 3.55 ring and pinion from Mothertrucker, price was killer if you contact him personally and pay him outside of ebay. He includes shipping and I had the goods in 2 days usps priority flat rate.
My torque tube carrier was stamped LU825 ,so one could infer it was a late Aug. 1953 casting. The Mother trucker pinion gear is .25" in diameter greater than the 4.11 I took out.

When assembling the gears in the carrier, I stopped 1/2" short of fully seating the rear pinion bearing because the pinion gear teeth were starting to contact the carrier. I ended up pulling the assembly back out and clearancing the carrier .004 in a small spot 3/4" by 1/2". It appears the mold used in the casting process left a little more thickness in this area. A dremmel with a cutter bit did the trick in about a few minutes. (pic3)

When installing the entire assembly in the torque tube housing, i tried dropping the assembly straight down vertically, like others have done. I couldn't get the last 1/2" to seat the rear pinion bearing, the sleeve that cinches the front bearing was getting cocked in the housing. Deve talks about super gluing this to the front bearing so it feeds in the housing straight, but I didn't try this. What I did was take some 500 grit emery paper and wd40 and clean up the outer ring of the sleeve, inserted the assembly vetically to engage the front bearing then removed the assembly from its vertical position to horizontal position in the vise and I was able to position the sleeve through the three holes where the retainer bolts go, while tapping the end of the pinion with a plastic hammer. Everything slid in nicely then. One thing, do not tap on the pinion with a hammer unless it is a plastic head, it only takes little taps, if you feel you need to get a bigger hammer out -it is the wrong decision, it is a semi press/slide fit.

My setup had a .015 pinion shim in it on the factory install and I ended up adding a .008 to it for a total of .023 for proper pattern. (pic 4 for coastside of pattern, drive side picture was blurry) (pic5, final backlash set at 5-1/2 thousands)

The front bushing in the torque tube required me to rent a slide hammer and pilot bushing head from the parts store to remove, it was a stubborn bugger to get out. I didn't bother with the inner bushing or seal, the Oakie bushing pressed in and there is enough room to leave the inner bushing and seal in. Was very happy with that design.

The gears drive out beautifully and quiet. I can now cruise out on the interstate at 60-65mph no problem, Plenty of umph with my 235 and bed empty.

Good luck with yours, recommend a press for installing the side bearings on the case and rear bearing tapped on easy on the pinion but front bearing required pressing, do not hammer on your bearings.

Check out Deve's install blog, it is excellent and he spent a lot of time putting it together to aid in the help of stovebolters. http://devestechnet.com/Home/DifferentialOverhaul

sstock,

That's a a great post and a perfect example of this forum working as it is intended to.

"When installing the entire assembly in the torque tube housing, i tried dropping the assembly straight down vertically, like others have done. I couldn't get the last 1/2" to seat the rear pinion bearing, the sleeve that cinches the front bearing was getting cocked in the housing."

When I did that job on my restored '36 Chevy PU# I got the pinion assembly to seat by sticking the driveshaft with the pinion assembly attached into the torque tube and holding the torque tube transmission end down vertically and raising it a few times a few inches and letting it fall down vertically against a wood block. That seated the assembly quickly and easily.

So, like with anything "whatever works".

# https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/.../1936-chevy-3-55-rear-gear-conversion.html

Thanks again for a great post and I hope the moderators are noticing that we amateurs do have information to offer each other.

Thank you sir for your comments.
We gain knowledge through each others experiences, since the stovebolt UBB software upgrade last month, it allowing pictures up to 5megs each to accompany a post, it really has opened the door to do a show and tell in these forums. I've always said, a picture is worth a thousand words. This will blow the doors open for the effectiveness of this forum IMHO.
Now if we could get the gallery up and running soon , it could very well be one of the best web-based truck forums on the planet.
Steve

sstock, you really should copy/paste the above to a new thread, titled perhaps; 3.55 gears and setting em up. Or some such title that'd help folks while searching for this type info.

Well done Sir!

RonR

Very nice documentation, Sstock

Is he a member on here? I didn’t know there were other options. Thank you sstock

He was but not anymore.

Thanks I’ve seen him elsewhere when I googled him.

I just had a flashback on this......







Steve.... here are the 2 axle shops in your area that have known experience with working on torque tube axles & both have been recommended by old truck guys that I know in the Phoenix area.

Arizona Differential
27th Ave & Indian School


Phoenix Rack & Axle
32nd St. & Washington


They may not be cheap, but they know what they are doing when it comes to setting up torque tubes.


.