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I just came back from a show and left, once again, with an opinion of the non fuel injected SBC. Here are my thoughts. It is cheap, anyone can afford it. It is so common that almost anyone has parts for it. It is easy to build, nothing unusual about it. Everyone has the tools to rebuild it. Yes it can make power if you cam it up and redo the intake to the point it won't idle and has a power band that is narrow and almost unusable on the street. I am not talking about a pure restoration, I am talking about restomods or hot rods. These are people looking to build a cool car or hot rod. And they choose a SBC. Why?! Why not a big block, a 50's era hemi, or heaven forbid an old 413 or 440. How about a 348 or a 409? I always liked the 400 and 421 Pontiac engines. No, it has to be a SBC... Do not know if I could do a Ford, no couldn't do that, but a 401 nail head would be cool. So the guys put a blower or turbos on a SBC, it is still a SBC. I like the newer small blocks, the LS and such but why another 350 chevy. Okay, I have the flame suit on, let me have it!

Try a Cadillac 500. It's only slightly bigger and a little heavier than a SBC; it's got 150 cubic inches more displacement, and all the BOP transmissions bolt on- - - - -TH 350, TH 400, etc. and the 700R4 can be adapted easily if somebody really wants to deal with throttle linkage headaches just to have an overdrive gear. Those engines have enough torque just off idle to turn a driveshaft into a corkscrew if the tires get a good bite. Old Cadillacs aren't all that scarce, either, and there's a fair amount of go-fast stuff available if a stock engine doesn't float your boat.

There's also a good selection of 455 engines- - - - -Buick, Olds, and Pontiac all had them, and they're not the same engine- - - - -three different ones to pick from!
Jerry

You pretty much have figured it out. SBC= less hassle, more parts, many swap examples and info. BBC= not much hassle either, many of the same parts as SBC, lots of swap examples. All the rest is up to you. Some of them will be very expensive for nothing (348/409) but cool. Some way more hassle. There are a million opinions of it all. I like SBC and BBC. Everybody uses them for a reason. It's nonsense for someone to say they don't want to do it because everyone does.

Everyone has Nike shoes and a man bun. Hurst shifters. Murdered paint job. Piercings. Tattoos. LT1's.

Whatever floats your boat.

No other motors come anywhere close to the adaptability of the Chevy/GM motors to manual and auto transmissions, bell housings, clutches, motor mounts, carbs, speed parts, headers, valve covers..... Advantages include: 6 cyl and 8 cyl common parts, SBC and BBC have many of the same various bolt patterns, throughout many years.

No flames at you, just shade.

I can understand complaining about an SBC in a Model A Ford, but a Chevy in a Chevy? Now you're just nit-picking.

Have you priced '50s-era hemis? Ten times what an SBC goes for. You get so much more HP for your buck with an SBC. And parts availability is crucial if you're a driver instead of a poser.

SBCs don't have to be cookie cutters; no other engine has the wealth of vintage speed equipment available, from Potvin front-mount blowers to 8 deuces on a cross ram.

But go ahead and spend twice as much to go half as fast. I'm sure you'll feel superior with some esoteric mill hidden away under your hood - until you break down in BFE and need parts, that is.

Hey Rick, like you said, most guys have SB Chevy motors - and that includes many on this forum.
So if you want to build something different maybe you should just do it without pontificating about how trite our motors are.

Agree, Rick had all the reasons for the sbc and its popularity,parts availability and affordability. Those two are the main stakes of an auto project especially while you are trying to make ends meet. I would of loved to of put a 348 or 409 in my T bucket but had kids in college, the price of that hardware is in the sky, not to mention pistons/rods and machining too.

Mediocre engines for unimaginative people- - - - - -being exceptional isn't for everybody, I guess.
Jerry

I'm a big fan of bone stock big cubic inch engines and the right gearing (usually in the 2's) for a resto rod. Trouble free, last forever, smooth as a babies butt, and smoke the tires till the next shift. Have used the 455 Olds/Pontiac/Buick engines plus the 472-500 Cadillac in everything from 30's coupes to early 70's pickups, all with good results. TCI is making a dummy proof (fortunately for me) constant pressure valve body for the overdrive automatics that does away with the very touchy TV cable adjustment. Since the bands/clutches are always at full pressure the only thing the TV cable is used for is to set shift points. Just a mere $337 delivers it to your door. As to engine physical size here is a 500 Cad in a 51 GMC and yes the chain steering has been trouble free for well over 200k miles.

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/pmwZMs30/51_GMC.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/3y9F03dq/51_GMC_008.jpg[/img]

I think the poster understands the practical reason for SBC/BBC usage. It's all been reiterated. The rhetorical question "why another 350" has been answered by practical assessment and explanation. Which Rick already knew.

Other motors are interesting and different than the norm. Exceptional? maybe. There are lots of projects with odd ball motors stuck in, with homemade motor mounts, just sitting in the rain. Not hooked up or finished because things don't fit and no junk yard parts available.

We don't condemn anyone who wants to innovate, fabricate, contemplate and separate their build from the run of the mill builds. They will be back in short time.
There is so much time, work and expense building a truck, that practical is a useful project plan. Restoration or restomod.

Obviously by just answering why so many use SBC/BBC does not take away from anyone doing whatever they want. This forum is mostly practical and many members are interested in restoration to as close to stock as possible/feasible. So there is a bias. That's why we're here, that's why many joined. I always want to put a SBC/BBC in everything John and Peggy say in their explanation of "What is a Stovebolt"........."regardless of what engine it has".

Evan, the "Northern California Sportsman" dirt track class we ran back in the late 1970's used narrowed-body cars on a short wheelbase tri-5 Chevy frame, with the driver sitting in the middle of the car just behind the transmission. We used a motorcycle chain to reposition the steering wheel to the center with a big sprocket under the wheel and a smaller one on the stock-position steering shaft. Lock-to-lock was just over one turn of the steering wheel- - - - -no power assist! Most of the drivers had arms a gorilla would be proud of! Our first car had 59 Impala sheet metal, narrowed to the point that those teardrop tail lights almost touched in the middle. The "body" barely covered the space from the bellhousing to the rear axle, with a driveshaft about 2 feet long. Most of the cars, including ours, ran a big reverse airfoil on the roof.
Jerry

"...but why another 350 chevy?"

Rick,

I attribute the small block Chevy engine’s extreme popularity to the fact that since 1955 when it first showed up GM has produced several variations of it in vast numbers. The aftermarket is flooded with specialty parts to make the sbc perfectly suitable to power anything and everything from a reliable street rod to a screaming Bonneville or other race car. There are aftermarket sbc intake manifolds, camshafts and cylinder heads perfectly suited to any conceivable use, Because these parts have been made for decades in such high volumes they cost a lot less, both new and used, than the same parts for other engines. For example, I have bought two Chevy genuine GM gear reduction mini starters in pristine condition at swap meets for $20 each. One is on the engine in my street rod roadster and one is a spare in case it is ever needed. Other examples are all the parts that went into the roadster sbc engine build in 2003 that cost way less than the same parts for any other V8 engine.

So, if the objective is to get the most bang for the buck the choice is obvious. If the objective is to have something unusual there are plenty of other engine choices out there.

Again, you insult the members of your own forum as "unimaginative." The engines may be common, but certainly not the people.

And anyone interested in being "exceptional" probably shouldn't own an Chevy AD truck - probably the single most common vehicle in every car event and Velocity Channel show ever.

I've been on many forums and here seems like a person can get away with being antagonizing, arrogant towards fellow members, where other forums the moderator would dish out the ban stick.
It is odd that a person with such a proven mechanical expertise is only to be diminished by his own self absorbed,pompous, know it all ego.

It seems that sbc is only mentioned as a 350. What about a 283, 327 or 302? Yeah I know, still a sbc, but way cooler and less common than a 350.

John

I totally agree. I was once considering a nailhead or a caddy 500 myself. Dollar wise it didn't make sense for me.

I've said it many times. I like 'em all.

John

Put me in the "SBC is mediocre/unimaginative" club. My aim isn't to hurt anyone's feelings, but if someone feels hurt, it isn't on me . The gist of the OP is "what do we think?"
Now he knows what I think.
When I am walking around at a car show and see an AD and it has a plain Jane 350 in it, I keep on walking. Seen it already. Now if they do something unique with the 350, I will spend the time to appreciate what the builder did.
Carl

'It is odd that a person with such a proven mechanical expertise is only to be diminished by his own self absorbed,pompous, know it all ego.'

sstock,

I've thought the same thing myself when people who post here are ridiculed for their posts. The earful I got when gathering information for the tandem master cylinder conversion on my restored '36 Chevy pickup would have made a sailor blush. It was deleted by the moderator as soon as he saw it.

The entire forum pays the price for that when people with differnt information/experience/suggestions remain silent rarther than getting flamed. In my 74 years of life experience I've found that the smartest, most talented individuals don't constantly boast and condescend to others. In fact they are usually quite modest about their accomplishments.

"Again, you insult the members of your own forum as "unimaginative." The engines may be common, but certainly not the people."

Jay Zed,

See my comment above.

Thanks to both of you for having the guts to speak up. We'll see how long your posts stay up.

I asked a provocative question and I received the answers I expected. I have put a 345 hemi in a 51 chevy pick up and a SBC 283 in one. I have now fought a 454 into a wooden cab 1935 tall cab pickup. I guess my reason for asking the question is I wanted to find out if I am the only one who has such desires. If you note I said I have used a 283, my humble attempt to vary the SBC theme. All is good, I just wanted to know if there were any other like mined souls out there that saw another way. At least we are all working with chevy's and proud of what we are doing!

Way to go Carl. Did you go around hitting hornet's nests with a stick as a kid?

thank you Rick for closing the show.

The SBC I'm currently building has NASCAR tool steel connecting rods, a roller cam, a rev kit, and a gear drive for the cam. It's also got 255 cubic inches and it will run 9K RPM all day long and stay together. The ignorant mouth breathers who check it out won't be able to find a single casting number that doesn't scream "305"". It's going to be a very boring engine, right up to the time I decide to tickle the loud pedal. It's NOT going into a stovebolt, so all that performance isn't going to be wasted on a truck that handles like a hippopotamus on a wet clay bank, even if it has been butchered up with an M-II front end. I'm building a stroker 261 that will eventually find its way into the 55 1st. series 3100 I've got stashed out behind the barn, or maybe the 59 Burb sitting beside it. Both of them will look, ride, and handle like a real truck.
Jerry

Whats that saying about opinions, something about everybody's got one...

I used think similar about seeing all those SBC's in everything from Beetles to other none GM vehicles at car shows.
They're everywhere, they're everywhere......
I personally think putting an SBC in a non GM vehicle is an abomination but then again that's my humble opinion .

Then I decided to try that route on an already modified AD truck and now have a slight change of attitude. There's so many ways to do the swap that looking for how they did it has added a new level of interest in what was getting to be just a side line as I checked out the swap meet sections at the shows.
If a vehicle wasn't a restored to stock or an outrageous example of engineering & skill I didn't spend much time looking at the vehicles. Obvious trailer queens get little attention from me... I can understand that many enjoy the trip more than the destination but I likes to drive 'em. So the highest value to me is how well it drives, looks is secondary..

Funny, I've got an mostly stock 49 Chevy powered by it's original 216, a former farm truck with the dings & blemishes that came with that profession and a 49 GMC with a brighter paint job and a fresh SBC dropped in it. Guess which one draws all the attention?
The Chevy drives and rides very good considering the engine is worn, but the body and frame is tight.
The GMC is getting to that point and since I didn't break the bank with the engine swap I can address the multitude of other problems it has under that nice exterior. Beauty is only skin deep applies to vehicles too.....

Put me in the SBC's are OK by me. (In GM vehicles that is LOL)
Dave

I could have put an SBC in my 54 for a lot less money and had all the attributes mentioned but I chose not to and the original engine has taken me as far as 1700 miles in one trip. But to each his own.

Ron, but whats your mileage? LOL.....

Before many years the sbc will be in the same category as a flat head Ford---an engine that used to be popular and still held onto by a few die hards but not practical when the LS engines make 400hp, idle smooth, last for 300k miles, and get 25mpg. We have two sbc in the shop right now which are the only ones in the last five years and they have a throttle body on one and 8 stack injectors (converted to electronic) on the other: a band aid till the light shines through and an LS goes in. With the Fords it's all modular now as they are similar to the LS in mileage, longevity, and power. My 34 Chevy 5 window coupe has a 2004 Mercury Marauder DOHC engine that is a joy to drive be it down an 1/8 mile drag strip or on an 800 mile cruise. I decided to give up the hand cranked telephone and kerosene lanterns and join the modern world. There's a tiny chance a few may disagree with this.

Evan

The modern engines you mention use a lot of electronic technology to get the high power output and great fuel economy they deliver. The 2017 Tahoe we bought In early 2018 has 15 computers onboard according to the dealer service department. One of the tricks it does is change back and forth between V8 power and V4 power. The 6-speed transmission does similar tricks. It was what my wife wanted although I could have happily driven my 1971 Dodge van that I bought new for the rest of my life. The Tahoe and similar vehicles have engines that a technology challenged person like me would never be able to graft into a street rod or restomod. A computer is required to do something as simple as adjust the idle speed. I envy those who have mastered the technology.

Just like the Ford flatheads you mention Gen 1 sbc rebuildable engine cores are pretty scarce now so for that reason alone their use in street rods will probably drop off to next to nothing.

The aftermarket suppliers are doing a good job of making the computer controlled engines a stand alone unit. The TV shows doing LS swaps talk about it but don’t show much. It’s the latest greatest craze. I’m all for putting weird oddball engines in Streetrods. I personally chose the carbureted SBC route for my restomod.🛠

"I personally chose the carbureted SBC route for my restomod."

Martin,

Beauty obviously is in the eye of the beerholder. I personally find the simplicity of the sbc to be the "Little black dress" of the engine world and the modern engines that literally bristle with attached gadgets to be butt ugly. I still have one last 4-bolt 350 cid sbc engine core on the standard bore, a pristine crankshaft and a pair of vortec heads gathering cobwebs in the back of the garage for a future project that I or my sons might do. Both the boys are professional engineers with very demanding careers right now so that engine core will probably sit there for a long while. All the critical surfaces are covered with grease so there won't be any rust damage.

Same here.
I like engine swaps but don't care to see yet another V8 stuck in an AD truck...
Then I saw Carl's, and even though it is a V8 the level of detail and care that went into the swap kept me looking for quite a while.

Anything well done catches my attention, even the ordinary can be very interesting.

On the butt ugly aspect of the LS engines I totally agree. Here is a running one in a 52 AD showing all that is needed with the latest stand alone harness. All the computer/electronic stuff fits in the old heater area with room to spare. After the parts are all in place my nephew plugs the leads into his lap top and has both engine and transmission dialed in in less than an hour. Larry, our guy that moved back to Wisconsin could do the same in 15 minutes.

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/SYj5V4sT/IMG_4464.jpg[/img]

Volfandt. to be determined at a later date. Did find someone new to take the truck to. He cured my Brother in laws overheating problem on his Corvair just by listening to the symptoms. If not I will just live with it.

I'm swapping my Chevy crate ZZ502 big block out for a 55 Chrysler Hemi. Twice the weight and half the horsepower.

Ten times the cool factor!
Jerry

I found Hot Heads to be a great company to work with when dealing with the early hemi's and their parts. I suspect you already know this but I thought I would throw it out there. Between them and Canter you can fix up about any early hemi. There is no doubt that people look under the hood and quickly say HEMI !

While that engine looks like when Arnold Schwarzenegger's face gets ripped off in the Terminator, I would be choosing that truck to escape the smoking hot girl Terminator.
Carl

I believe Evan is right. It is interesting to me how technology has totally eclipsed the old sbc engines. Of course it has eclipsed the 235 too, but this post was about the sbc, wasn't it?

OK, I'm sold on the LS setup ( and seriously just about went that way on my latest project). But to keep this equal I'm going to need to find a servicable and complete LS, all it's required electronics, exhaust sensors, fuel pump and fuel line upgrades for what I've got in my SBC setup, around $800...... Bolt it all in and start driving, like I did that old antiquated 300hp SBC......

Dave

You know guys it is a personal choice. If you like it, want it, then go for it! Being a farm boy I could take the old IH 4 cylinders and get better HP. Driving a 235 in my teens I could make it bark! There is always more horsepower and performance you can get from all most engines! Today at 68 yrs. old I still love HP. My 59 came with a 350 the motor was junk, today I have installed a made into 383 why; because I can it makes me happy! Last Sat. at a car show downtown Lagro, In. I saw a 61 Chevy stepside with a 283 3 deuces impressed me a whole lot! life has taught me go for it!

Good post Ben. A 350 (283, etc) with 3 deuces in an old truck will stop me in my tracks and I'll spend some time ogling. Be forewarned, I will be checking your linkages to make sure you have the stops where they belong so that all of the carbs are working.
Carl

Carl, the trick setup is to take the throttle plates out of the end carbs and use thick solid gaskets under them. Then the throttle shafts can turn "as designed" and the rubes don't know the difference!
Jerry

52 Carl, you mean Lagro has downtown? I went to high school there, 1957-60, then moved to Marion, In 19 miles south. for my senior year.