The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Boxing the frame?

Hi folks. I have a 53 3100. I'm keeping the straight front axle. I will be running a 292 in the 450 hp range, Tremec TKO 600 and Frankland quick change rear end with leaf springs and Bicknell torque arm. I am considering 10" rear tires. I will be driving the wheels off of it and it may wander on to the the drag strip once in a while. I have been ask if I am boxing the frame. Not exactly sure what that entails. Is this something I should do and if so how much and where? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Your factory frame is made out of "U" channel. Boxing it means welding plate steel on the open side of the "U", along the frame rails, so that you have a frame that is no longer a "U" channel- it becomes a "box" (it is now rectangular tubing, of sorts..) The stock frame was designed to flex, and it flexes a great deal- not the greatest thing for race car. Boxing the frame usually includes adding tubular cross members to stiffen the frame even further.

Go ahead- - - -it makes as much sense as the rest of the project. Making a frame too rigid results in creating stress risers and cracks in places that are difficult, if not impossible to repair. Do you intend to go the rest of the way down the rabbit hole and include a full roll cage and the other frame-stiffening procedures the round track racers use so the frame assembly will transfer weight properly for going around in circles efficiently?
Jerry

Hadn't thought about a roll cage, thanks.

Boxing the frame may be overkill and overthinking things. There have been several guys on Inliners making more HP than you'll be making, both N/A and turbocharged and racing their 6 cylinders in these old trucks like this one and haven't needed to box their frame rails, so you probably wont either since you're expecting relatively low HP comparatively speaking.

The Stovebolt is kinda not about dragsters. Boxing has actually never been proven by engineering study on old truck frames. Common sense says it will make a frame stiffer but not necessarily stronger, in the sense of it not being analyzed using computer structural analysis software and interpreted by a mechanical or structural engineering team, it may cause a snap somewhere because flex is necessary in a sprung truck. Not to mention the maintenance manuals have specific instructions for frame repair welds. (Do's and Don't's) Written in a different era. All of the forums that discuss it are by people that don't know what they are talking about and build up a faux knowledge in their mind.
Some builders never realize that V8's don't weigh more than some 6's.

You've named a lot of names of stuff I never heard of and sound expensive. Why not a custom frame? Roll cage? Scatter shield? and all that fancy stuff on a old truck frame?

Now don't take this the wrong way because I like fast, I like power and I like the drag races, but you are fabricating a truck like that and you don't know what boxing is?

Don't waste the time and money on boxing the frame. You will need all of that money and more for medical bills and lawsuits when you lose control and roll it in a school yard.
I do like speed. 60 year old frames and leaf springs are not cut out for speed.

Thanks for the advice now I know how to answer the question when it gets asked again. Not road racing just making a fun toy. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I don't understand why people get bent out of shape just because I want to make my truck the way I want it. I'm all about safety that's why I ask. How else do you learn? I have worked hard my whole life and feel I can waste my money anyway I want. My only heirs are my Basset Hounds and they don't care as long as they get a ride. Thanks again for the information.

You are right. Opinions, suggestions and thoughts sometimes sounds like we don't think you should do what you want. We all do what we want. If we can give some caution during someone's idea, we may save them something. I'm sure it will turn out nice.

........common sense goes a long way. If you happen to take out a cross member then it makes sense to put one back in.....

Keep the questions coming and keep us posted. There is always something to learn from ones build.

More than a few of us have done what you're attempting, or something very similar, and we're making an effort to share our experiences, good and bad. You seem to be determined to ignore good advice. Go ahead and pound a bunch of dollars down a rathole- - - - -nobody's stopping you. After all, you could be wasting time and money on something really dumb- - - -like playing golf!
Jerry

You don't know me, so don't judge me. I gave more money in scholarships away last year than most people make. I think if you read my post I ask for advice. I could easily have dropped the truck off at a custom shop wrote them a check and picked it up in a year but I want the to do it myself so I ask and learn. Isn't Lincoln made by Ford?

We box a lot of frames but NOT for stiffness. When building hot rods the smooth boxing plate from the cab to the front crossmember is much easier to work with than a "C" channel when it comes to custom mounts, IFS, steering components, etc. The boxing plate MUST NOT have square ends because this is a sure way to flex stress cracking. You can use a parabola cut out on the ends of the boxing plates or a 60 degree taper angle. This gives a transition area from rigid to flexible. Peek under an Chevy S10 or GMC S15 and you will see this has been done where the front box frame connects to the rear channel rails. Believe it or not GM actually does have some pretty smart folks solving engineering problems. A 70 GMC and a 52 Chevy both with @ 450hp Corvette/Camaro LS engines, "C" channel frames, and no boxing plates. GMC has a lot of rubber on the rear.

[img]https://s22.postimg.cc/xp07m6kvh/IMG_4118.jpg[/img]
[img]https://s22.postimg.cc/ejwyckbe5/IMG_4398.jpg[/img]

WOW! now that's an engine. Very impressive.

Part of "learning" is that some teach not do a certain thing, because they already "learned" not to do it. Whatever it may be. You can't tell someone how to do something you think is wrong for the situation. You can offer that it is possibly a bad idea. Don't take it personally. We are talking about the idea of this or that, not about the persons money situation.

Mick, you will find that some here have very strong fact based opinions on most every topic regarding High Performance modifications of Chevy/GMC trucks. Some also have very strong opinions based on a bunch of internet babble and no direct experience. When you ask for "advice" from the masses you should expect a bit of both worlds. We have a few who believe, based on many years experience, that their way is the only way. Unfortunately they choose to use degrading remarks to get their points across. Others are more eloquent in their choice of words. Don't take any of them personally, they all mean well in their own way. As for me I understand HRL's point because "Boxing" can cause certain points to develop stress fractures but I also understand Coilover's point. Coilover is in the business of Hotrods, and as does Jerry, has personal experience with "boxing" frames. You asked "how much and where" you should "Box" the frame. My suggestion would be GOOGLE and YouTube for videos and then PM Coilover for some real world advise. In the end you will have to choose to "box" or not to "box" your frame. It is your truck and by all means you should do what you want with it. Finally, then I'll get off my soapbox, when you hang with a bunch of passionate old truck guys, you will find the need to develop a thick skin especially when you've got a bunch of purists mixed in with a bunch of hotrodders. Good luck on your project. It really sounds like it will be a blast to drive.

While we're in the "not judging" department- - - - -I took a 60% pay cut a long time ago to go into the teaching business, and kept at it for over 30 years. During that time, I encountered a LOT of kids society had given up on and managed to teach them a trade and make them productive members of the community instead of welfare leeches. Come to a homecoming at John's place sometime and sit in on some of the excellent seminars our guys share with their fellow members. I learn a lot there, and provide at least a little good info myself. In the years since I've retired, I've gotten a lot of requests for advice from former students, which I gave gladly. The more intelligent ones listened. The stubborn ones just had to ignore my counsel and pee on the electric fence for themselves.
Jerry

I would like to apologize for my comments. I have the utmost respect for people who chose to teach. It is one of the most underpaid professions we have. Thank you for doing it. I still go to school when ever I can get a semester in. I go to Ivy Tech in Indiana. They have won many national awards for their automotive programs. I plan on taking welding and auto body classes when I can. If I have to do it 3 or 4 times to get it right I will. I am not a stubborn guy. I built a dry ice manufacturing plant in PA last year and knew nothing about dry ice when I started. I like to get as much information from as many people as I can and then make an informed decision. Thanks again for the advice. This is a rough weekend for me.

As posted above, for your needs and power level its overkill and not needed. If you are still concerned, just buy an Art Morrison frame with modern A-arms and suspension and be done. Some things just aren't DIY friendly. Just because you take a class and buy the tools doesn't mean your qualified to use them, it usually just gives you a false sense of accomplishment. It still takes years of experience along with that to become competent.

Art Morrison Trucks

Don't sweat it one minute Mick. You own a '53 Stovebolt and are passionate about it. We dig you man!
Put it on us for being a bit abrupt. We earned that.

Here is an S10 with a box front/channel rear frame and how they used a parabola cut out to soften the rigid to flexible transition.
[img]https://s33.postimg.cc/dusaqcptn/S10_028.jpg[/img]

Frame boxing made simple, should you have the inclination....

code504 frame boxing kit