The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 tuning help?

hey gents , I need help tuning my 1958 235 engine , is there a manual that one could easily obtain for such a task? I have a 1952 panel 3100 ( half ton) it has a 3 speed on the column transmission and 4.11 gears . with a 1958 235 engine . I can't go more than 35 MPH with out revving it too high. I am told in another forum that I should easily achieve 55 MPH with a stock set up . I would greatly appreciate your help.

What does it do when you go over 35 mph and revs high

Just to have all the facts: what size wheels and size tires do you have?

Do you have access to a tachometer?
What are your RPMs at 55 mph?

Wendell, sounds like you have a pretty nice package with the '58 235. Two thoughts come to mind; One, our old truck are noisy and all drivetrain/engine noise is amplified compared to the modern vehicles a lot of folks drive. The engine likely isn't turning the rpm it sounds like it's turning. Two, any chance it's in second gear and not 3rd when 35mph sounds like the max speed.

Adjusting valves may well quite things down (lots of post on this site with instructions). Also Tim is right, a tac will tell if rpm is excessive. I'd call high 2k excessive for cruising. If you have a timing light with a tac function it may be possible to get creative and use it as a temporary tac while running down the road a mile or so.

Good Luck

RonR

There are service manuals to be had. Google is your friend.

An excellent selection of shop and repair manuals here
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/
Look at one from a similar year to your engine.

One of many threads and resources on valve adjusting
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1107992

kavinski it sounds very loud and like it is not suppose to be that way . also once I heard a pop . like a bit of a back fire..
tclederman I am running the stock size 16 inch rims with 6.50 x 16 tires.
moparguy nope I am quite sure I was in third. but thanks. and yes I realize old iron is naturally louder.
thank you all for your replies.

OK, Wendell

Tell how it sounds/runs after adjusting:

timing (how)
carburetor (how)
valve lash (how)

Do you have a timing light, and/or, do you have a vacuum gauge?
Have you adjusted valve lash?

If you need instructions, let us know (that info is in Shop Manual, and, maybe in the Owner's/Operator's Manual).

What is you Engine Serial Number - that will let you/us know if you mechanical lifters or hydraulic lifters (and which technique should be used to adjust them).

I do not have a timing light or a tachometer. or a place to tinker on my truck ... other than small stuff.. but I was thinking of buying a timing light at Walmart. also a co-worker 's dad owned a shop so I think I will see what he can do.

When you’re familiar with the methods valves and timing can be done in under 30 minuets most anywhere. I’ve done it at a rest stop on the highway, makes people look at you funny.

A timing light with an adjustable advance is most useful on these engines.

Wendell,

A good timing light and a good tachometer are quite handy.
However, you can adjust the timing and the carburetor quite well with a $25 vacuum gauge and a $4 feeler gauge from Walmart.

Here are carburetor/timing adjustment techniques.
The timing might be a little off - it has been suggested to do the timing setting above and then rotate the distributor about 4 degrees clockwise. I do not do that, but I will try it the time I time.

Here is a mechanical lifter valve adjustment technique that is quite simple. Other similar techniques have been posted here by others. Either way, you will need a set of feeler gauges.

thanks Grigg, people look at me funny any way. lol
one of the other bolters suggested that it was my clutch. he said my disc could be in backwards .. and / or is slipping . whats your thought on that?

While it’s possible I’d say unlikely, you’d have already known it by now.
Driving up a hill all is going we’ll until you continue to depress the accelerator and engine speed increases with no increase in road speed.

Or if it’s worn and slipping you’d also smell it.

Thanks

Another possibility (this was my experience) is your fan pulley is too small and the fan is spinning too fast. But if you haven't changed anything out, this not likely be the issue.

1953 panel - good observation.

Wendell's 1958 engine might be a car engine - some had smaller diameter pulleys?
Pre '68 Dave would know.

Wendell, what is the engine serial number pressed into the block near the rear of the distributor?

well I found some numbers ... I am thinking 3837004 is the engine serial number.... and then B34. 913. 241. 570 are casting numbers...

did some more looking ... found " FI2I2B. " ( f eye 2 eye 2 B ). it was on a brass plate between the base of the distributor and the starter motor.

38337004
1955-1957 235
http://www.1954advance-design.com/Stovebolt-engine/casting-numbers.html

F - Flint, Michigan engine plane
12 = December
12 = 12th
B = Powerglide equipped
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/57011.htm

If my decoding is correct, you have hydraulic lifters. This is no problem, but you will have to adjust them appropriately.

thank you Tclederman , what exactly is a "power glide".. what does having a power glide mean?

A power glide was a 2 speed automatic transmission used by GM from the early 50s on.

Almost all Powerglide 235 engines used hydraulic lifters.
Powerglides were used in cars.

However, 53-55 Corvette 235 engines had mechanical lifters.
Those Corvettes had Powerglide transmissions.

Trucks did not use Powerglide transmission (except, see below).
All truck 235 engines used mechanical lifters.
Maybe not: a Powerglide was supposedly used on at least one model of Chevrolet truck around 1960. Most likely it had hydraulic lifters, but no one has posted confirmation/information.

The valve adjustment techniques are significantly different for mechanical lifters and hydraulic lifters.
This is important to correct adjustment/tuning.

Just to further confuse/confound us: over the years, an owner/rebuilder could change a 235 from hydraulic to mechanical lifters (and visa-versa).

Wendell, B34 looks like it could be a date code.

Is B34 casting number on the passenger side of engine.

"Maybe not: a Powerglide was supposedly used on at least one model of Chevrolet truck around 1960. Most likely it had hydraulic lifters, but no one has posted confirmation/information."

The 1961 Chevrolet Truck resto pack from GM Heritage Center.
Shows on pdf page 10, Engine ID, JB and JH
JB, was stamped on engines in C 10-20 series trucks with RPO 311
JH, was stamped on engines in P 10 series trucks with RPO 311
MA, was stamped on V8 truck engines with RPO 311
More power train info on pdf page 8

Now go to pdf page 30, "Regular Production Options" page
It shows 311 Powerglide transmission, C 10-20, P20

The resto pack strangely does not mention hydraulic lifters for straight six cylinder engines that came with a Powerglide trans
It shows hydraulic lifters for V8 engines on pdf page 145, Look for lifters in left hand column.
The Powerglide straight six engines probably did come with hydraulic lifters, it just doesn't say it in the resto pack.
Further confusion.

Couldn't you push down on the push rod side of the rocker arm and if it moves down slightly, wouldn't that tell you that the engine has hydraulic lifters?
I was under the assumption that the reason they used hydraulic lifters in engines that came with a Powerglide, was that it made the engine quieter.
It was a luxury thing, if you payed more for a automatic trans. they threw in hydraulic lifters which made the engine quieter and provided less lifter adjustment maintenance.

Yep, that it the one I was referring-to, jorb

We have noted that "oddity" before, and wondered about the lifters.

The resto-pack also list the Powerglide as a truck transmission in 1960 (RPO 311 document page 5), as the 4-speed Powerglide.
In another location (document page 23) the Powerglide is listed as 2-speed.

well this really sucks... engine started knocking.....

thanks for the info just the same ... my panel does not have an automatic transmission ... however the engine was from a 1958 something ... and the truck is a '52.
shaking my head in discouragement ... and asking myself just what the heck did I get into ...
how can one tell a car 235 from a truck 235?
how common are 283 v8's ....
if I can't fix the 235 .. I may consider a v8.. do 283's get better fuel milage than 350's?

"how can one tell a car 235 from a truck 235?"

Find & post your codes shown on this page.

In particular:
block casting number
block date casting code
head casting code
head date casting code
engine serial number

yes B34 is on top of a series of numbers on the passenger side ,near the front .. 3 sets of 3 digits in a column similar in arrangement as I have below.

B34 913
241
570
then there is the other cast number : 3837004. and finally the engine serial number F1212B

The three sets of digits (starting with B54), as noted at the link I posted above, is a set of numbers/codes that have not been explained.

Please post the block date casting code, shown at the link I posted above (PHOTO 2).

The format of your Engine Serial Number started being used in 1957.
As posted above, your block casting code(3837004) was used between 1955-1957.

Here are some links that show the location of the engine casting numbers. (wider angle)
The date code that Tim is asking for is next to the starter. to the right of "CON 4"
http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/55-57-235_22.jpg
http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/235_261_50_TO_54_CASTING_NUMBER_PIC.jpg
http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/235_261_58_TO_62_CASTING_NUMBER_PIC.jpg

The attached photo shows the location of the ESN = Engine Serial Number, to the left of the distributor.
The ESN is stamped into the flat machined boss using letters & numbers metal stamping dies. It is not cast into the block.

xfiles

as I understand my engine serial # is F1212B ... would it be correct that B indicates a power glide... therefor suggesting it was a car 235 and not a truck 235 engine? and F indicating Flint Michigan plant ?
the man I bought it from said the engine was a 1958..
Sadly, my engine started to knock last Saturday.
so the plan is for me and my 81 year old dad to rebuild it. He is a life long mechanic. hopefully some good memories can be made in the process .

If you’re not attached to that particular engine I’d hunt down a 261 as a replacement, rebuilding that if necessary.
Wish someone had told me the same about 20 years ago before I rebuild a 235. I had no idea then that a 261 was available, and better, and wouldn’t have cost any more than rebuilding the 235.

thanks , I will think about it. how well does a 261 bolt up to the mounts and such?

If you have a 1952 3105 (1/2 ton) Panel truck

A 1954/55st 261 will bolt right up/in (these are not very easily found).

A 1955nd-1963 261 will need a few adaptations, depending on the year.
- maybe an adaptation/change in front motor mount
- water pump relocation for efficient/optimal cooling - use a 1948-52 truck water pump with a relocation plate.

Let's assume you find a 55nd-63 261, you would also need:
If you are now (or, you will stay) 6v, you will need to use your 1952 6v starter, 6v flywheel and complete clutch assembly/parts.
Use your 1952 clutch housing and transmission/torque-tube/rear-end.
If you are 12v (or changing to 12v), you would use the 12v 261 flywheel, starter and clutch assembly.
The carburetor linkage will have to be tinkered-with.

Other members will add and/or correct what I have posted.
(I have a 1959 and a 1960 261 on/in two of my 1954 trucks.)

Looks good to me,
Although I have no problems or second thoughts about running the old 6V starter on 12V, they still last near forever.

You can safely run the 6v starter on a 12v system in "short spurts".

But, be sure you have a 6v flywheel. The 12v ring gear (and/or the 6v drive gear) might not last forever.

well thanks fellas for the info. for now I think I will stay with the 235 ... got my gasket set today in the mail. also I am in the midst of employment transition . so I will keep it simple for now. eventually I want to get the rear gears changed to 3.55.