Hey guys, I just spent half the morning trying to get the brakes apart on the '52 6400. I pulled the nut and wheel bearing and the brake line. I searche all over the tech tips, and big bolt forum to no avail. There are two holes on the top of the back side of the backing plate near the wheel cylinder, but I couldn't find any kind of adjuster, like a star or something, to back of the brakes. There is no hole on the bottom of the plate. I tried to put a 3 jaw puller on it with a little pressure and then wacked it with a rubber mallet, but it still wouldn't come apart. This hub seems to be frozen in place. I can turn it with a 6' pry bar and a lot of effort.
If my memory is right from readings in this forum, there should be an adjuster in each of those holes on the top. one for each shoe. I could be wrong and I’m sure someone will chime in if I am.ðŸ›
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
Hy oldieoldie, there should be adjuster "star" wheels accessible through the two slots in the back top of the backing plate, there may be some teeth broken off of the "star", hope that helps.
I have shined a flashlight in there and there are no stars. Any other ideas? Maybe it wasn't put together right last time, but then I REALLY need to get it off of there. With the stars adjusted and the bearing out, I should be able to just pop it off like my newer Chevy truck shouldn't I?
yes, it "should" slide off if the brake shoes are released and the nut and outer bearing off. If the brake drum is worn (any that old are) and has a lip on it from wear, the shoes may be stuck out and keeping you from pulling it off. (frozen wheel cylinders, broken return springs, would do that, even if your adjusters are all the way in).
Are you able to turn the drum freely, or are the brake shoes dragging? Sometimes it's necessary to unbolt the wheel cylinder from the backing plate and pry between the backing plate and the drum to get enough of a gap to see what's going on. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
There were Stars, they were so cruddy I couldn't see then, but they still wouldn't turn. But trying to turn it after removing the bolts from the cylinder caused it to all come apart. The drum looks pretty good, but I'll have all of them checked. Even out of the wheel I couldn't turn the stars, I'll have to find a new one. I took pictures and when I figure out how to post them, I will. It looks to me like a spring is missing because of a broken piece hanging on the left. The cylinder is part number 5453781, so I'll find it later. Just excited to finally get it apart!
If the adjusters are on the ends of the wheel cylinder, you've got Huck brakes. Bendix brake shoes free-float at the bottom and they have one adjuster that moves the shoes away from each other, also at the bottom. Bendix brakes started in 1950 or 51 on the 1/2 ton trucks- - - -not sure when the switch was made on the bigger ones. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The adjusters are on the end of the cylinder, so I guess I have Huck brakes. I'll try to free up what I have before replacing. But I will need to find new shoes or a place to redo these.
It's always a good idea to purchase a Factory Service Manual for your year truck. Usually answers all your questions. Used and reprints are available on ebay, and at, www.autolit.com
Spanky Hardy Collector Of Fine Old G.M. COE Trucks & Antique Holmes Wreckers
I agree with you spanky except I can't seem to find anything that addresses the big blocks. I have talked to a couple of vendors who specialize in old manual or more specifically manuals for stovebolts and they all tell me there is no manuals for them. That makes it pretty difficult to find parts for one thing. Watching the Big Bolts posts regularly I notice there is an ongoing problem with people tring to find parts and often disagreement on what part number is for what model. I've checked with many of the standart bolt part places for wheel cylinders and brakes and they all say, so far, they don't carry anything for the big boys.
I have the factory service manual for my 1950 4100, and although there is a lot of good info in it, it is more like a giant owners manual. I would like to get manuals for my 13 Tahoe, but it is a set of 4 books for over $450, and those are missing a lot from in between the lines too.
Last edited by 4100 Fire Truck; 03/24/201810:51 PM.
Hy oldieoldie, I think there has either been some part swapping going on or possibly your truck is actually a 1950 model. The last year for the "star" wheels on the wheel cylinder end caps was 1950, a 1952 truck would have Bendix brakes. Could you please tell us the bore of the wheel cylinders you removed?
From the links above, I definitely have Huck brakes and the title says it is a 1952. I don't know what the bore is because I have spent the day trying to figure out how to take them apaart so I can determine the bore. I have pictures of the wheel cylinder and brake setup, but I still have to figure out how to post them. I have them on MyDrive, but I don't know how to link to it. When I get time, i will research it and post the pictures.
Hy oldieoldie, I noticed you posted on another post that you can't find parts to repair the brakes on your truck, as I stated previously the brake parts on your front axle are those of a truck no newer than a 1950 model, you keep identifying your truck as a 1952 model. Could you please post your trucks serial number here so we may decipher it and identify exactly what you are working on. There is no point in giving you part numbers for brake components for a 1952 model if your truck is actually a 1950 model (which uses a different type of brake system). I know that your front brakes are for a 1950 model, but maybe somewhere along the line someone swapped in an older front axle, please post your trucks serial number so that we can be sure what we're dealing with, thank you.
Newer cab on an older chassis. Done all the time. Usually the other way around but it is what it is. Bet the vin will say it’s a ‘52.ðŸ›
Martin '62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress) '47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project) ‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily) ‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence) “I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one! Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop! USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
I hope this is all helpful. Personally, I don't care what year it is, just so I can get parts and get it on the road. My plan is to drive it to KC this year.
That does not match original factory codes for 1952, but enough parts makes it look like some sort of replacement code? Here are 1952 "serial number" codes.
Can you post a photo of the ID plate?
Can you post the engine serial number that is pressed into the block to rear of the distributor. (a photo, if possible).
Thanks for everyone's help. Another thread I have been following "Brakes!" tells me that Jim Carter has parts, but you have to call since they don't advertise them on their site. I'll pull the rest of the brakes apart and see what I need and go from there. I'd really like to know how to get the cylinders apart to rebuild.
Hy oldieoldie, if you could make an adapter from your brake line which fits the wheel cylinder and ends up with 1/8" female pipe you could install a grease zerk fitting in it and pump the cylinder full of grease to "press" it apart, hope that helps.
If the pistons are stuck in the bores, soak the cylinders in something like PB Blaster or KROIL for a few days, then use air pressure to blow the pistons out of the bores. Wrap the wheel cylinder in rags or hold them in a smooth jaw vise with the pistons facing the jaws so they don't launch themselves across the shop when they break loose. Once one piston is out, the other one can be driven out with a wood dowel rod and a hammer. I have honed hard to find cylinders way oversize and made new pistons on occasion. Wheel cylinder cups can expand several thousandths to accommodate an oversize cylinder bore as long as the pistons fit without wobble. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I'm on the right path then. I put the cylinder in PB Blaster a few days ago and plan to try it when I get home. I'm at the hospital with a daughter having our 17th grand child!
The casting number on the wheel cylinder is a Delco Moraine #, I can't see the dia. but looks like 1.125". You should be able to find kits for them. I had to press mine apart with the vise and thought one of the pistons was too far gone but after soaking the pistons in hot vinegar and the cylinders in muriatic acid I found them in good shape. Hone, rebuild kit, paint, good to go.
1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 2 speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
I'll get them apart and see what is what. I've had people tell me that number crosses to anything from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" so I guess I will see when I get it apart. It's soaking in PB Blaster at the moment.
Hang on a minute -- Are you having a hard time removing the rear drums?? Did you remove the flush screws that hold the drum to the hub? I didn't notice anywhere above where they had been referenced. If you have not removed them, you can bang, pry andsqueeze all you want and all you will do is damage. If you haven't already, stop everything and look for the screws -- on the face of the drum (flat part in between the lug bolts somewhere) they may be crudded over so you have to dig for them.. They will be hard to loosen (I use an impact driver for this). Your drums should then come right off.
~ John
"We are not now that strength which in old days Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are"
1948 International Farmall Super A 1949 Chevrolet 3804 In the Legacy Gallery | In the Gallery Forum 1973 IH 1310 Dump 2001 International/AmTran RE3000 "Skoolie" 2014 Ford E-350 4x4 (Quigley)
They're front drums, John, and he's already gotten them off by using my suggestion to unbolt the wheel cylinders. Now we're discussing wheel cylinder rebuilding techniques in case new/rebuilt cylinders aren't available. I ended up making new pistons for the big GMC that Ed Pruss left with me for a while- - - -new wheel cylinders were available from NAPA, but they were about $100.00 each, and 4 of them were needed just to fix the front brakes! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thanks for the input John. I'm still just doing the front brakes. Everything is apart, except I still can't seem to get the wheel cylinders apart for a rebuild. In the interest of getting this done, I may try to buy rebuilt wheel cylinders, a dual chamber master cylinder, and new shoes all around. Then when I figure it out I can have these as backup or trading stock.
I was just reading up on Hydrovac units and I get the impression that you can't use a dual chamber master cylinder with a vehicle with Hydrovac. Does anyone know about this? Dual chambers are obviously safer, but it seems you would only have power brakes on either front or rear, but not both.
I agree, I would think with a dual mc you would be upsetting the designed bias but I'm just thinking out loud, Can't see how you could retain the hydro with the dual mc.
1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 2 speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
Some older motorhomes accomplished the dual brake/hydrovac setup by using two small-displacement hydrovacs, one for each axle. It's an overly complicated system with minimal advantage over a single system. These old rigs ran millions of miles with maximum loads (usually overloads) and didn't create much mayhem on the highways from brake failures. Keep the original system in good shape and keep the shoes adjusted properly. You'll have far more braking capability than you'll ever need, unless you intend to run the same kinds of loads on a daily basis that the truck was designed to haul. Just watch out for the problems they had when running unloaded back then- - - - -rear wheel lockup from having too much brake on the rear axle. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
