I am rebuilding my 327 and have run into a bit of a snag. I'm having an issue with the distributor. I am using the same distributor I took out of the old engine, and the same rod that goes from the oil pump up to the bottom of the distributor gear. I did replace the Oil Pump with a new one I got in the master kit. It is an EngineTech EP55. Says it is correct for 1963 327.
For some reason, it will not seat properly. I have about 3/16-1/4" left before it will seat on the intake manifold. (see picture Distributor_01) I know that it is in the groove of the oil pump shaft because when it is not, it sits a lot higher off the seat.
I measured the depth from the intake to the oil pump shaft and it measures 6 3/4". (see picture Distributor_02)
The distributor shaft measures 7 3/4" from seat to tip (see picture Distributor_03) and has a 3/4" depth in the recess that the oil pump shaft seats into. That adds up to approximately 1/4" left over, which would explain why it is not seating properly.
My question is, did they ever make an oil pump with a longer shaft? The master kit was ordered for a 1967 327, but I had to change blocks to a 1963 327. I didn't think that would make a difference. My old block (casting # 3892657) was specifically for the year 1967. My new block (casting # 3782870) says it was used from 1962-67. Date stamp of A23 tells me it was a 1963 block. I am still using the original intake from the 1967.
Any suggestions? I would hate to have to take the oil pan off, but will do it if I need to. It just seems odd to me.
1953 Chevrolet 3100 261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, torque tube still,omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done In the DITY Gallery Video of the 261 running
1964 GMC 1000 305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
No, the heads were not milled, but the block was decked at .008". I didn't even think of that, but that would be enough to make a difference, wouldn't it?
Based on the assumption that decking the block caused the problem, I started doing research on that. I found that yes, that can cause my issue. The solution is to use a distributor shim kit to readjust the distributor height so that it is not bottoming out like mine is now.
Once again, Stovebolt members came through and helped me solve an issue. Thanks!
Hy 62Stick, over the years I have noticed the aftermarket oil pump drive shafts at all different depths in the gear itself, while I have never had an installation problem with any that I have installed, this is one thing I would check if I were assembling your engine and ran into this problem. While the block may have been decked, the intake manifold is still factory dimension and the distributor will not sit down on it, something is holding the distributor up. I would check the oil pump shaft height against a known good one to compare, if an adjustment to the shaft height needs to be made I believe the shaft is a press fit into the gear and as long as the shaft is not flush with the bottom of the gear there is room for "adjustment" of the shaft height, hope that helps.
Shimming the distributor is probably the quickest fix unless you're willing to drop the oil pan and make a more permanent change like swapping the intermediate shaft, etc. If you do decide to go with the shims, make the fix semi-permanent by gluing the shim(s) to the distributor housing. There should be a little clearance up and down to the distributor shaft with everything buttoned down to prevent drag and wear to the distributor. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
62 Stick, is that oil pump from China? It's been about 12 years since I've been into a sbc rebuild so I don't remember the exact set of parts that drives the oil pump and distributor. But it's possible that the the same condition that is holding the distributor up off the intake manifold is also causing a misalignment between the gear on the camshaft and the driven gear.
Thanks Jerry, that was my plan. I couldn't believe that I couldn't find the shim kit locally. I ordered the Moroso kit through Amazon. It will be here on Thursday.
Yar, I believe it is a Chinese product. EngineTech sells both foreign and domestic parts. I've already tossed the oil pump box, so I can't see what the box says.
I would be pulling the pan and measuring the original pump and the new one. Sompin' 'aint right, all the small block pumps are interchangeable and big block pumps bolt on with a modified pick-up tube. I'd get a GM or Melling pump and sleep at night with no worries. It's not worth trashing a new motor for a few dollars saved on the inferior part.
1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 2 speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
It's also possible you didn't get the intermediate shaft seated all the way into the connector sleeve. There's a groove around the pump shaft and the bottom of the intermediate shaft, and a raised part of the ID of the connector sleeve. Before you tear everything apart, remove the distributor again, stick a piece of 1/2" round steel bar or a long drift punch against the top of the distributor drive shaft and give it a good tap with a hammer. Then try to seat the dizzy again. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
"I'd get a GM or Melling pump and sleep at night with no worries. It's not worth trashing a new motor for a few dollars saved on the inferior part."
78,
That's why I was wondering if it's from China. It's a huge leap of faith to trust a function as critical as pumping oil to anything from China.
I'd be hesitant to force the intermediate shaft downward into the oil pump. It might be easy to force it down into a too-tight hole but how would it be extracted if that became necessary?
If it were mine I'd pull the pan and find out what the problem really is and toss that pump in the dumpster if it's from China. For the price of an oil pan gasket you's have your answer 62.
I tried that last night before posting. I used a 3/4" wood dowel and tapped lightly. It didn't help.
Yar, 78,
I ordered the shims, but I think I will pull the pan tomorrow and look at the pump. I know that the new screen/pick up I installed was a Melling, but not the pump. You're both right about not trusting it.
Have you primed the engine by running the oil pump with a drill motor before installing the distributor? If not, you're not ready for the distributor to go in anyway. Drop the pan, check everything for proper fit, and then pressurize the oil system before the distributor goes in the next time.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I had not primed it yet. I was trying to test fit the distributor when I ran into this issue. I like to test fit critical items before final assembly. Since I have not even filled the sump, inverting the engine to drop the pan will not be a messy process. Just getting ready to head out to work on it again. I'll know more in a bit.
The plastic collar that holds the intermediate shaft to the oil pump shaft was not fully seated on the oil pump. It was fully seated on the intermediate shaft though. I got it fully seated, reinstalled the oil pump, flipped the engine and this time the distributor seated properly.
For those that are interested (Yar, 78) the oil pump is a USA product.
Thanks again for all the help. I do appreciate it!
Been there, done that- - - - -that's why I suggested the hammer tap on a steel rod. I use a piece of 1/2" round stock with a flat tab ground on the end as a priming tool, and it also makes a good driver if the intermediate shaft needs a little massaging. Have fun with the rest of the assembly! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I guess I didn't tap hard enough when I tried with the wooden dowel. I didn't want to destroy anything.
I've got lots of round stock of various sizes stashed around here. I figured I would make something like you just described. I have a nice old metal Craftsman 1/2" drill that will do the job nicely. That thing is probably older than I am. Another of my many Heirloom Tools.
