The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop '55 235 - oil in water

I was at the point of taking my truck around the block a few times as it's first shake down run. started with checking all the fluids and found water in the oil. The engine had about 6 hours run time since it was received from my engine shop - reconditioned / rebuilt / remanufactured? The cylinder head gasket looked OK to me. Took the head to a shop to see if they find any thing. The exposed surface of one exhaust valve looked a bit rough. Does any one have any suggestions of what else to look for?

And no, I can't just drop the engine back in his lap - his wife has health problems, he is older, he has taken a full time job on the local Army post.

Bob

Take the head to any reputable engine machine shop and have it pressure tested, If they don't know what that means, keep looking for a reputable engine machine shop. You probably have a cracked head.

Is this a 216 or 235?

I apologize - I usually do better - -235.

For a 235, the usual suspects are a cracked head, bad head gasket seal, possibly, though a bit of a stretch, a cracked block. If it was a 216 you could add the seals on the copper oil line that runs through the block. Have to agree with 52 Carl, take it in for testing. I have gone through this with several heads, The guys I go to pull all the valves and magna-flux the head, check the guides and seats and clean out all the junk inside. They also re surface it for a good seal. It is worth the effort.

For what its worth.
I too chased that demon that was putting water in my oil, replaced gaskets and tried a different head , still got water in the oil, mainly the dipstick would be milky but not the oil in the pan.Upon removing the valve cover I found the inside to have a milky film near the breather. All this time the level in the rad remained constant .
I was stumped until I spoke to a older timer then Myself who suggested I remove the crank case ventilating tube and peek in side to see if it was blocked. Lo and behold it was caked with years of built up stuff that wouldn't even allow liquids through. I soaked it in degreasser , then put it back on when cleaned out .
When I started the engine I noticed right away that there was some smoke exiting the tube for the first time since I owned it , After a few minutes of running I noticed water dripping out the tube which I suspect was condensation which was trapped in side when the tube was blocked and tried to find its way out in the via the dipstick and breather cap.
I've only managed a few hundred miles since then , but the engine has gone through the warming up and cooling down cycles numerous times since then with no evidence of water showing up other then what drips out the tube until the engine warms up.
I'm optimistic this demon will be put to rest and there will be others to chase next season.

Excellent post, panel fan

It has been a while since your observation & remedy has been posted. I like your soaking the tube in degreaser option to the good-old-boys option (that usually works without ruining the tube) of filling/soaking the tube in kerosene and then "burning out" the tube.

The road draft tube works quite well, except in low-speed stop-and-go city driving.

This is what I learned from a master mechanic.
One day me and a buddy of mine dropped of his wife's car at this master mechanic.
He told the master mechanic the car had a rear engine oil leak.
The master mechanic told us to come back in about 4 hours.
We went to a nearby saloon, shot some pool, played some tunes, drank a couple of beers and then went back.
My buddy asked the master mechanic what did you find, He said' the engine is shot, there is no compression in the cylinders.
My buddy said' How can that be it only has 38,000 miles on it.
The master mechanic asked' How did your wife drive the car,
He said' Short drives to school then maybe the grocery store then back home.
The master mechanic asked' How often did you change the oil.
He said' Every 3,000 miles.
The master mechanic said" That is what killed your wife's engine.
He went on to say that in a colder climate (like Wisconsin) if do short drives, you should change the oil every 1.500 to 2,000 miles.
He said" When it is cold outside, look at a engine after you start it up, it will start to sweat, condensation (water) will build up on the outside of the engine.The same thing is happening on the inside of the engine. Short drives don't let the engine warm up enough to evaporate (Burn off) the condensation (water) on the inside of the engine. After a couple of months of short drives you end up with a lot of water in the oil.
A recipe for premature engine wear.

The rear engine oil leak, was from the intake manifold gasket blowing out.
The compression rings and cylinder wear were letting combustion gases pass the pistons
and into the crank case (Blow By), that creates high crank case pressure, which blows out gaskets.
Then I asked" If the cylinders have no compression why isn't the engine burning oil out the tail pipe.
The master mechanic said" The oil rings today are lot better than they were 50 years ago.
That is why you don't see many cars burning oil nowadays.

With all the sensors on modern engines, one would think, why don't they have a sensor that senses water in the oil?

Before we left the master mechanic said"
You are better off buying a used car, from a traveling salesman with highway miles,
than from a little old lady who drove her car to church and back home everyday.

Oh by the way this master mechanic kept his shop so clean you could eat a egg off the floor.

Bob: You do need to change oil if it's milky. Panel fan's clue may be "dip stick milky, not the oil in pan". Hope you luck out and it's a breather thing. Does not seem to make sense that a new motor would have condensation. (in our dry state of AZ). Does make sense it was screwed up by builder. Hope it was a blocked draft tube or something minor.

Be careful not to throw too much more money on a tear down and magnaflux and etc. Those motors are not that expensive. If they find something , then more money! Since you can't take it back you have to think differently about this. Buy a motor for $300-$500 with good compression and hear it run and check the oil. Drop it right in and go. Lots of parts off your motor still good to use.

I appreciate all the suggestions. Some, however, wont apply - when I drained the oil, the first thing that came out was about a 1/2 pint or so of just plain water. I think that would eliminate the breather tube issue and other sources of condensation (correct if I am wrong). As Bartamos mentioned, I live in Arizona - I saw dew on the ground once about 5 years ago and had to ask my neighbor what that was. I am waiting til next month, when my shop will be able to get around to my head.

Thanks, all.
Bob

Good plan Bob ..I did the same thing at my wife's suggestion. When I bought this truck my wife said I should get my head checked!!!

Bob, I find that time outs always help when I get frustrated. Often helps me from making a big problem out of a little one.

I'd do some checking before tearing anything apart.

I'd start by retorquing the head bolts. Using the correct tightening sequence, I'd loosen each one by 1/4 turn and then torque to spec. Don't loosen them all at once and then tighten them all at once...do the loosen/tighten procedure one bolt at a time. You might find that the headbolt(s) weren't all torqued correctly.

Then I'd try try a mini-version of a leak-down test. Run compressed air into each spark plug hole when each piston is TDC in the firing cycle and watch for air bubbles in the radiator. If you see bubbles, chances are that you have a bad head gasket, a cracked head/block or a warped head.

If you don't get bubbles, you might have solved the problem by retorquing the head gasket. Or it might have been a fluke that somehow water got introduced into the crankcase during the rebuild. I knew a guy who was hosing dust off a rebuilt engine recently and forgot that he had pulled the fuel pump...Hmmm, wonder who that dummy was!

If you do have bubbles, you might want to simply change out the head gasket. They only cost about $20. You'll be pulling the head anyway, so installing a new head gasket and then rechecking with compressed air will let you know if the problem was the head gasket. If you no longer get bubbles, you are good. If you still have bubbles, time to check for a cracked or warped head.

If all checks out, I'd replace the oil and watch it carefully.

It could be something very simple, so I wouldn't panic. Just check it out one step at a time.

Good luck,

Matt

Matt,

Excellent advice, in all respects. Usually my response to these sort of problems. Wish I had followed it closer this time. Hopefully, I can catch my shop before he goes much beyond a visual on my head. So, how do you suggest that I adapt an air compressor to a spark plug thread?

Bob

Bob, the easiest way is with an adapter that screws into the spark plug threads and connects to your air hose. I have one of the cheapo leakdown testers from Harbor Freight. One of the adapters in the kit fits the sparkplug holes for our engines and snaps into the quick release on my air hose.

https://www.harborfreight.com/cylinder-leak-down-tester-62595.html

I have seen one made from an old spark plug that had the ceramic knocked out of it, got hollowed out, and then was somehow tapped for a quick release air fitting.

Matt

Bob, if you do end up pulling the head, here's a tip that will make re-installing it easier. Get yourself a two foot length of 1/2" threaded rod. Cut it into four pieces that are 6" long. Use your cut-off wheel to cut a slot into one end of each of the pieces.

Lay the new head gasket against the top of the block and get it all lined up. (I use spray on copper head gasket sealer on both sides of the gasket, but that's me. It comes in an aerosol can.) Once the gasket is lined up, screw one of the 6" lengths of threaded rod into each of the four corner head bolt holes. Install the rods finger tight and with the slotted ends facing up.

Use the rods as guides to drop the new head into position. The head will drop right into position sliding over the rods, and the rods keep the gasket from shifting. Leave the rods in place while you start threading all fourteen of the head bolts except the corner ones. Once those fourteen are started, pull the the rods and start the four corner bolts.

The reason that you cut a slot into the top of the rods is so that you can remove them with a large screwdriver just in case you need a little help.

Once you make a set of these rods, set them aside so that you have them any time you need to swap a head.

Matt