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Rebuilding my '67 327
#1246545 Mon Dec 11 2017 10:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 446
6
62Stick Offline OP
Shop Shark
I started a thread last week about a knock in my '67 327 in the engine forum. After inspection, it was determined to be a rod bearing issue with the number 8 rod bearing. It spun and both halves nested on the rod side of the crank. The number 7 rod bearing was missing a chunk of material as well, but had stayed where it belonged. This left some marks on the crank, but it looks to be rebuildable (see photos)

Now, by the numbers (V05I8KM), this was an L30 spec (275hp) engine.
Code Year CID HP BBL Appl
KM 1967 327 275 4 a/t, A.I.R.

Well, that's what it started life as. When I took it apart, I found +.030 flat top pistons and a Viking 100H cam. Crank main and rod bearing do not show any +\- numbers, so I am assuming they are standard, but the rod journals will need to be ground due to current damage.

I have the double hump heads (3890462) and cast iron 4 bbl intake (3895898 or 3895893, I'm not sure), RamHorn manifolds and dual exhaust through Magnaflow mufflers that exit in front of the rear tires.

What I would like to do with this engine is build it up to the L79 spec. (327/350hp)

I know that the block is a 2 bolt main, but I don't think any of the small journal 327 were 4 bolt mains. Does this sound like a good decision for this block? Should I go to the L79 spec, complete with dome pistons to up the compression to the factory rating of 11:1, build using flat top pistons and keep the lower compression (L30 was rated at 10:1), or do the regular rebuild using the full L30 spec? It will be going back into my '62 C10 Shortbed Stepside. I have the SM420 4 speed and a non-posi 3.90:1 rear end. I am using a Holley Mdl 4175 650cfm spreadbore for the carb.

I don't know what the difference is between the factory cam for the L30 and the Viking 100H cam, but I did like the power it produced. I would prefer to go to the full L79 treatment, but am concerned about running pump gas in it. I was currently using 87 octane regular unleaded with no pings or pre-detonation. The current +.030 have L2165 on the deck along with the 030. This leads me to think they are TRW forged pistons and correct for 10:1 CR with the 64cc heads. Would the L79 cam (3863151) or any of the current cams with a similar grind (Elgin E903H, CompCams CCA-CL12-106-3, etc..) really help at 10:1, or is the compression too low to add any benefit?


Attached Files
327_7-8_RodJournal_small.jpg (280.94 KB, 314 downloads)
327_8_RodBearing_small.jpg (265.22 KB, 311 downloads)
327_7_RodBearing_small.jpg (291.98 KB, 312 downloads)
327_codeStamp_small.jpg (215.74 KB, 312 downloads)
Last edited by 62Stick; Tue Dec 12 2017 05:49 AM. Reason: Added exhaust information
Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246555 Mon Dec 11 2017 11:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,406
H
Boltergeist
Going to the domed pistons with the 64 CC heads will put you into "racing gas only" territory- - - -100+ octane or so. Even 10:1 is pushing the envelope unless you're running a fairly radical cam. Here's something wannabe engine builders don't realize- - - -the ONLY reason to use high compression pistons is to compensate for a very long duration camshaft. That 11:1 piston needs a 300+ degree duration cam to work right, and you'll have virtually no usable torque below 3K RPM. The actual compression PRESSURE (not ratio) only needs to be at, or slightly above the pressure developed in a stock engine with a short duration cam, but since the intake valve is closing WAY up the compression stroke with a radical-grind cam, the remaining cylinder volume must get squeezed tighter just to get back to where it used to be when the engine was in stock trim. In the process of gaining some top end horsepower at speeds the average street engine never sees, you're losing massive amounts of low end torque. Why in the world would anyone want to pair up an engine that gets its usable horsepower somewhere around 5K RPM with a SM-420 transmission?

I'd suggest using flat top hypereutectic pistons with the 64CC camel-hump heads, and a Comp Cams 268H hydraulic cam that still has good low-end torque, runs well on pump premium or maybe mid-grade gas, and will wind to 7K+ RPM before it starts running out of breath. Be very sure to install screw-in rocker studs and guide plates and do a good 3-angle valve job with some pocket porting to free up the high RPM breathing capabilities. One of my students built an engine like that which turned out 400+ HP at 6500 RPM on the dyno, corrected for temperature and humidity- - - -real numbers, not a bench-racer's pipe dream. He put it in a Chevy Monte Carlo, and routinely ate 5.0 liter Mustangs for lunch at every stoplight.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246557 Mon Dec 11 2017 11:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 446
6
62Stick Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks HRL! I'm not trying to build a race truck, just one with a little more get up and go than it had before this engine went south. I don't want to get rid of the 327 because EVERYONE has a 350 these days. I like having something different.

I was afraid the 11:1 was unreasonable, that's why I was asking specific questions and disclosing what I have and what my usage was. As usual, your insight and experience is greatly appreciated.

Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246563 Tue Dec 12 2017 12:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,406
H
Boltergeist
My "something different" is in the process of getting all its parts gathered up and machined so they'll work well together. It's going to have a 305 Chevy block, a destroked 283 crankshaft, NASCAR specification tool steel connecting rods, and a roller cam with a rev kit. It will be slightly over 250 cubic inches, and should live quite happily at 8K+ RPM. It's going to be installed in a home-built tube steel frame with an Excalibur Roadster fiberglass body. The whole vehicle will probably weigh less than 2500 pounds. That engine should sound like a bumblebee on steroids when I get it wound up tight!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246611 Tue Dec 12 2017 05:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 446
6
62Stick Offline OP
Shop Shark
Sounds like a lot of fun! Where do you plan to run something like that?

I'm going in the opposite direction with my build. I'm returning my '62 C10 to near stock levels, or at least the appearance of stock. I've even gone as far as to remove the plugs in the Oil Fill Tube and Road Draft Tube holes that are plugged on a '67 engine and installed the Oil Fill tube with breather cap and I'm currently fabricating a new plug for the road draft hole that will accept a PCV valve so I can put the old Chevrolet script valve covers on it. Make the '67 327 look like an old '62 283.

However, I love the extra umpf that the 327 has over the old 283 (rated 145hp) that I use to run in my '63 C10. So, I will look at the specs on the cams you mentioned and see what I can see. I don't mind doing research and changing direction when I've gone off track. My 462 heads are fairly stock. I don't think anything has been done to them at all, so 7k rpm is out of the question for me at this point. I think that 5K is about the limit I will ever be pushing with my set up. Besides, I'm on a tight budget on this build, so wild is definitely out of the question.

I'm thinking that more grunt off the line is good. As it was with the 327 and the SM420 and 3.90:1, I could smoke 1st, burn 2nd, and get a decent scratch going into 3rd. 4th was too tall to doing anything except go forward. It was rare that I would do that, but it was nice knowing that the power was there when I needed it. Usually just used it in a nice, sedate putt-putt mode, but if I needed to get up to speed in a hurry, I could do it. There is no speed shifting an SM420. It was a nice reliable 65-70 mph on the freeway kind of set up, but could do short bursts of 75-80 if needed. I just didn't like to run it for long at those speeds. Besides, the stock suspension on a '62 is not set up for high speed.

Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246612 Tue Dec 12 2017 05:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,406
H
Boltergeist
I'm getting sort of sneaky with the Excalibur- - - -the bellhousing bolt pattern is the same for several engines- - - -the Mercruiser Marine 4 cylinder, the 4.3 liter V6, the 230/250/292 inline sixes, and all the small block and big block Chevy V8's. With a little tinkering with motor mount locations and exhaust pipes on any particular day, I could run any of those engines. When the car that pulls up beside you at a stoplight can have that many powerplant options, would you challenge him to a friendly street race?
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246615 Tue Dec 12 2017 06:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 446
6
62Stick Offline OP
Shop Shark
Not a chance!!

My old '63 C10 was a sleeper like that. I had 2 different configurations that I liked very well. The '65 corvette 327 with the '57 corvette dual quad high rise with dual Carter WCFBs. Paired with a TH400 and 3.73:1, that baby screamed, but like you noted before, no one really needs that kind of rpms in a truck. I made it to 135mph with that setup, but swore I would never, ever, do it again!!! Too fast for that chassis. The other was a small block 400 with the Holley 4165 650cfm spreadbore, the TH400, and the 3.73:1. More grunt, less top end. Topped out around 105mph or so, but got there really quick.

I don't know why I was even thinking about trying to revisit the high rpm monster 327 again. My '62 doesn't have any better suspension than the '63 did, and the aerodynamics are just as bad, if not worse. That was the big problem with the '63. As the speed increased, so did the airflow under the truck. It created an airfoil that lifted instead of squatted. High speed = high on the suspension and absolutely no room for error.

I think your Excalibur will have a lot better aerodynamics.

Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246628 Tue Dec 12 2017 02:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,406
H
Boltergeist
One more bit of trivia- - - -the Excalibur frame is also being measured and tweaked for a Jaguar independent rear suspension with a sprung-weight third member and inboard disc brakes- - - -should make it handle like a "rocket sled on rails"!

An old geezer WWII vet from my home town was one of the first hotrodders in our area to experiment with nitrous oxide back in the late 1960's. He had a ratty-looking old 57 Dodge pickup with a 440 in it and a nitrous bottle under the hood. When he hit the loud switch the whole back end of the truck disappeared in a cloud of tire smoke! Later he built up a 49 Chevy coupe with a highly-modified 327 and a Muncie 4 speed with a Hone overdrive that worked on 3rd. and 4th. gear and a 3.08 rear end. His top end was somewhere in the 150+ MPH range.
Jerry




The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246644 Tue Dec 12 2017 05:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 446
6
62Stick Offline OP
Shop Shark
Dang! You get all the new toys.

I can't wait to start seeing pictures of this thing.

I'm going to be taking the block, crank, rods, and pistons to the machine shop today to get the process started. I looked into that Comp Cams 268H hydraulic cam you mentioned above. I noticed it has .477 lift, requires different springs and head machining for the new springs. XE268H That's something I can't do with this build. Too tight of a budget.

Any suggestions for a different, less lift cam I can bolt in with stock components?

Re: Rebuilding my '67 327
62Stick #1246655 Tue Dec 12 2017 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,406
H
Boltergeist
Actually, a set of standard-diameter Comp .500 lift springs or an equivalent spring that doesn't include the ridiculous Comp brand name price markup drops right in, and works well with that cam up to 6K+ RPM- - - -no need for special head machining. There's also a taper-wound "beehive" spring available that has a smaller diameter at the bottom and fits the original spring seat. You might have to shorten the tops of the valve guides a little to make sure the spring retainer doesn't get too close and mash the umbrella-style valve stem seals that work better than the OEM O-ring seals that fit underneath the split locks. If you use the umbrella seals, DON'T use the sheet metal caps on top of the springs or the O rings- - - -it's possible to seal the guides too much and wear them out. Eliminating the sheet metal caps also gives you a few thousandths more of lift capability before the springs try to stack solid. I use a piece of paper clip wire and a temporary solid lifter during assembly to check for coil bind- - - -if the spring coils pinch the wire, you're too close to a solid stack and need to machine the spring seat a little deeper.

Edit: There are several spring sets on Ebay that will accommodate a .500" valve lift, ranging in price form the mid-30's to just over a C-note. The springs that require head modifications are larger in diameter and will accommodate a second spring for sustained high-RPM operation like on a high-banked round track where the engine stays in the high RPM ranges most of the time. For the occasional tire-smoking session on the street, those springs aren't really necessary.
Jerry



The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
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