The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Painting bare metal

I've finally got clear title to my father-in-laws first truck 1929 Chevy flat bed after a lot of paperwork, and I'm ready to get down and dirty with restoration.
I've disassemble all of the body parts and brought them into my shop to spend the winter banging out every dent, welding and repairing any tears, repairing a few rust areas that need replacing.
Snow will soon be upon us at this elevation so I'm now set to hibernate in my shop and get the body in shape before next spring. Thats my hopes anyway.
Back in the early 70's I worked in a body shop for a couple of years. Our work was basically repairing dents that were seldom brought down to bare metal.
I dug out my old set of hammers and dollies, air files, slap files and everything that I need to get started and decided to do some research on the internet since I'm starting with a vehicle that hasn't a spec of paint on it. And also I figured that techniques and paint materials have probably changed some in the last 45 years. Glad I did, but now I'm REALLY confused and hesitant to get started until I get some firm answers and opinions form a lot of people.
I'm pretty good at using a hammer and dolly to get it metal pretty close to original without having to use much body filler at all. Most of the time multiple layers of primer coats would file rather than bondo. My boss always complained that I spent too much time with my body tools when I could just fill the small pits. Maybe I did. But this is my baby now that I am working on and I don't mind taken what every time it takes to make it perfect.
After disassembling all of the body parts, I have examined every edge and piece trying to find a hint of a speck of paint to determine the original color with no luck.
From all the pictures I've seen, it appears as though Green and Black were the two prominent colors used.
I'm not such a purist that color is that important to me but I'd like to know what was the original. I'm a "semi purist" because there are some really cool colors out there that would look great on the truck. And I'd like to do a mile deep paint job on it.
(1) First question: Is there a number anywhere on the vehicle that will show the paint code?
I've been watching tons of Youtube videos on painting and restoring old vehicles and I'm totally confused when it comes to bare metal painting and body filler.
The body is very smooth (not much pitting at all) It has a patina of rust, but if you take a white dress shirt and rub across it, No rust transfers to the white shirt at all.
Very little rust on the body at all. I don't know if it is because the vehicle has been in southeast Colorado where it is very dry, or because of the metal it was made from.
Anyway, I know I need to sand and wire wheel down to shiny metal before I begin body work and paint, but I'm confused on the processes that I've seen on multiple youtube videos that seem to conflict with each other.
One guy that seems to be very well respected on youtube is this guy "Pete" somebody? Every other word is the "F" word. If you can get past his fowl mouth, he has good tips, but he was the only one that I could find that says that when you get down to bare metal, you have to start with an epoxy primer because regular primer or sealer will not stick or adhere to the metal and will eventually peel off.
He also said you can not sand epoxy primer but said that you have to spray on epoxy primer before you fill. That doesn't make since to me. Doesn't using an etching body filler adhere to the metal by etching itself into the metal? And since you can't sand or scuff epoxy paint, wouldn't the filler separate from on top of the epoxy paint?
We used to alternates colors of primer as an indicator when block sanding. If you block sand and get down to the epoxy primer, won't it gum up or not allow you to feather properly?
I want to do this to last forever.
(2) Question: When you are down to bare metal, do I body fill (and with what body filler, etching primer, etc) first? before priming? That is the way we did it in the 70's
(3) Should I use epoxy primer for first coat on top of the filler? Or a sealer? Or just a good primer? And if I do use epoxy primer and it can't be sanded or scuffed, how will the next coat of primer stick to the epoxy primer?
Thanks for reading my rambling on.
Hope someone can give me some clarification.
Dave

This is the stuff I use. I love it. Southern Polyurethanes

By the way, I filled, then epoxy primed. And I sand the epoxy primer as I wish.

Different strokes for different folks.

We strip to bare metal and carefully clean the metal.
Apply epoxy primer to seal the metal from moisture.
Do metal work and then spot reprime, if necessary.
Do filler work (many fillers can absorb moisture).
Apply a surfacer, and follow instructions from the finish-paint manufacturer.

Stick with one manufacturers products, and use them as recommended by the manufacturer.
Many people have posted good experiences with Southern Polyurethanes.

Hey Mark,
I looked at all your pics of the burb restore. Nice ride!
I noticed that you black primed the the entire vehicle first. Did you just prime it to protect from further corrosion and then work on each piece one at a time to bring it back down to bare metal before doing body work, filler and epoxy primer?
And did you use an etching filler? Does epoxy primer adhere well to an etching filler?

+3 on epoxy, then filler. SPI is all I have been using, and I love the stuff. And you can sand epoxy primer as much as you want- it sands very nicely. There is a video you might want to watch where certain methods using epoxy are compared. The trick with epoxy first, then filler, is to make sure that you have sealed everything with epoxy again (no bare metal) prior to spraying your hi-build primer. Here's the video (no swearing in this one): Primer and filler test

Oops, wrong video. Here's the one I was talking about: epoxy primer torture test

That's the video that sold me on the epoxy process. DO NOT USE ANYTHING WITH ACID WITH EPOXY- NO ETCH PRIMERS!!!!

Thanks for the compliment!

The first round of black was just a coat of Krylon Ultra Flat Black, just to make it all one color.

Now, I grind out paint/rust, work, fill, then SPI Epoxy Primer. The filler is Evercoat Rage. The primer adheres well to the Rage.

Impressive video.
I guess everyone has a different opinion. Still getting many different opinions by going to paint supply stores, paint shops, etc.
Whats that old saying? "Opinions are like A@@h*^%#$, Everyones got one"
I guess I'll just have to keep talking to Lots and Lots of pro's and make my own decision from there.
No offense to anyone. I've never seen so much diverse opinions to one subject. Usually, you can find a majority opinion that would lead a person to lean one direction.
Lots of well respected Yota's out there that each have decades of experience each. But each living in their own universe. Lol
Is it possible that two different opinions could both be correct?
I will continue to pursue the ultimate paint job, but my head is spinning for now.
My truck has been waiting for another paint job since my father-in-law parked it on the hill in 1954, so I guess a little more time won't hurt to wait to make a decision.

Here's a question that hopefully there won't be much controversy.
After disassembling the body parts, I realize I need to replace the old bolts with new ones because many bolts snapped, some came off OK but were rusted out.
Most of the bolts are not visible, (underneath) but some are round head stove bolts that are on top of the fenders and running boards and where the headlight brackets and other things bolts up to the body.
How do I treat these bolt heads for painting?
Seems like most of the bolts I am finding are almost chromed. Very shinny and polished.
How do I treat these because I am imagining doing the final paint job and a few years down the road, Paint peeling off of the bolt heads.
Do I sand them?, sand blast them? Grind them? so the paint will adhere?
Do I buy certain special bolts?

Or am I just too paranoid after all of this paint job discussion?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

Answer to your first question, there is no 1 right way to paint bare metal. Professional Paint/Body folks have used different systems for as long as paint has been around. Keep studying and use what you are comfortable with when the time comes.

Second question, if you are concerned about the paint flaking off because of the smooth toothless surface then scuff them with a Scotch Pad before you paint.

BTW, I am not a professional Paint/Body man so these are just my observations.

Fun project, enjoy.

Yes, two or more different opinions on modern paint SYSTEMS could be correct.

First, 1970s paint systems were quite a bit different from 2010 paint systems.
And, there are a few different modern paint systems.

Choose a modern auto-paint system, and then follow the manufacturer's instructions/recommendations for all stages of the process.

I took a practical approach with hardware - I attempted to obtain stainless-steel hardware as much as possible. I did not paint most of that hardware. However, I also used as many original clutch-head screws as possible. They got cleaned and then primed/painted to the original color found on the Suburban.

I also found an oldGMCtrucks member who had an unmolested Suburban, and I checked out what was originally painted. Many of the parts on my Suburban had been painted-over 2-3 times, even though I bought it when it was only 17 years old.

One thing I was not careful with was trying to clean/prep sheet metal screw holes. After being epoxy primed and urethane painted, many of my electrical grounds (screw-holes) were no longed grounding points. I still have not fixed all of those ground-points (and, my marker/signal lights suffer dimness from that).

I'm one of those "replace all the nuts and bolts" guys. And not necessarily with OEM types. I might be a little anti-clutch head.

I understand, Mark

Some reproduction vendors sell reproduction clutch-head bolts/screws (like the SS rear-fender to bed bolts/screws).

Nonetheless, save your clutch-head bolts/screws and send/give them to a friend/colleague/neighbor/stovebolt-member.

Yup! In the coffee can!

Well that's good to hear!
I called my youngest son to find out how to unfriend someone. He told me I had to know what Facebook is first. No need, I can tell him never mind now.
Carl

Next question: the first thing I'm working on is bringing the cab down to bare metal. There won't be much body work. If anything, just a few tiny dents to fill.
Can I use canned spray primer to protect the metal temporarily until I am ready to spray a high build primer? And if so, would I need to take it back down to metal before I do a high build.
Or will a good brand of canned primer stick good enough that I can do a high build over it?
Or should I just start with a good quality high build?

Spray it with epoxy primer. Rattle can paint will just give you a false sense of security. Its removal would then be an unnecessary step to the paint job.

Ditto: spray the bare metal with epoxy primer.

Then, any time later on, you can do what you want on top of it (rough it up later on, before moving onwards/upwards).

I had to google OEM, Lol!
Some of the bolts are visible on the surface where the fenders and running boards bolt together. Not many. I will end up using OEM bolts for those visible areas and new ones for most of the bolts that are underneath and not visible. I think I have enough to do that. Many of the bolts snapped off or had to be grinded off even after much soaking in penetrating oil and heated with a torch.
But I think I have enough for the visible areas.
Thanks for the tips guys!

I used rattle can on my fenders. Now I have to take it off. Rattle can (1K) is NOT compatible with anything except rattle can. Don't trust it under your good paint. I have purchased epoxy primer. I probably will roll or brush for now.

SPI is a great company for advice and paint.

Everyone should read "The perfect paint job". It was either written by, or sponsored by, SPI. At any rate, the article I mentioned tells you exactly what to do.

The epoxy primer can be used under or over filler.

There are two dozen ways to prepare bare metal or old tight paint for final coat. There are three dozen products to use. There are "production" body shop ways, custom body shop ways, website blog ways, paint company ways, uncle Bud's way and everybody else's way. They all have stories why the other guys way will screw you all up. I think that a company like SPI, who backs their products. should know how to do it with their products. You do NOT want to mix brands. However, epoxy primer should be OK to use with a different brand primer/paint. But always check. Real epoxy primer will be two part. (2K)

Bart is right, nothing in a rattle can should go on your truck unless you are using it as a guide coat and will be sanding it off.
Etching primer is old school compared to epoxy primer. Most are using epoxey although I used a thin etch coat on my truck this year, but let it have many days in the sun to make sure it was dry before putting on the high build urethane primer.
As far as painting your shiny bolts, if you havent already you need to go get a blast cabinet and give those bolts a quick hit with glass bead media. They will give it a nice texture to prime the bolts with. Plus you will use the cabinet on a ton of smaller parts on this truck.
If you want to go cheap, consider the summit brand single stage urethanes (you will have to mix their hardener with it). Like others have said, they have a complete system and makes it easy and very reasonable. I like the evercoat rage extreme for the filler over bondo though. Much better and sands easy too.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat.

Also, protect yourself, go buy a p95 from harbor freight when sanding and using blasting with glass beads. They even have protection against isocyanates , protect your lungs man, you only have one set.

Didn't realize until yesterday that we can now post pictures.
Heres some pictures of the disassembly of the beast so I can do body work in my shop this winter.
It's really not as rough as it looks.
Since there are so many different opinions on the proper applications of priming and body work, I believe I have decided on doing epoxy primer over body filler, that way I can concentrate my efforts all winter of doing body work, metal work, and filler in my shop and not worry about exposing it to the elements until I'm ready for paint.
I have limited room in my shop. Can't pull my full vehicle in with all of my wood working equipment.
And now I've bought tons of metal working, body working, welding equipment.
In the famous words of Richard Dreyfuss, "I need a bigger boat"!

Yes, you do have some work head of you.

Good on you for tackling that restoration, bringing a cool truck back to life.