The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop New to the forum- engine advice needed

I've got some 235 (3 9/16") cast iron pistons with a dome. What engine did they fit?
Jerry

I do not know, but, for a 216:

http://midstateantiquestockcarclub.com/stovebolts.html

They are most likely .060" oversize 1937-40 216 pistons

So does the 50-52 head have a different bolt pattern or something? What is it that makes it so specific?

They do have there own bolt pattern.
I think Tim (tclederman ) has a link to a bolt pattern chart.

Thanks Tim.
I guess that only shows the torque pattern, not exactly the bolt placement.

What do you mean by bolt placement, Dave. As I dimly (and lamely) recall, it is pretty obvious where the long and short bolts go?

However, it has been a while since I worked with low-pressure 216/235 head bolts.

Ok guys...I have a new plan in the making....I may be buying a good engine from a 1954 3100 to swap in until I can completely rebuild my '51. This way I can take my time with the original engine and not be rushed.
The '54 is missing the distributor, carburetor, and starter. Will those items from my '51 swap right over?
Also, should this '54 have manual or hydraulic lifters?
One more thing...what all (if anything) is required to make a 3100 engine fit in a 2-ton?
Thanks!!

You should be able to use those parts from your '51. Lifters will be Manual. May have to modify the motor mounts (not sure) but pre68Dave should be along soon. He has been monitoring this thread.🛠

A 1954 engine should have the timing plate already drilled if it was from a 3100, so it should be a direct swap.
Carburetor and starter are no problem.
The distributor is something I would look closely at.
1954 is a strange year. Some had cast cams and some had steel cams.
It is not a good idea to use a distributor from a steel cam (1951) in a cast cam engine.
You can tell which cam you have by the width of the distributor drive gear on the cam.
If the drive gear on both engines look the same width then you are good to go.

?? who are you talking to, Dave?

In case they check in, here is a link to your blog:

http://chev235guy.blogspot.com/search/label/Distributor%20%26%20Cam%20Gear%20Identification

The problem is I really don't want to tear the new fresh engine apart to find out what the cam is made of. Any other way to tell? S/N maybe?
Here is the engine. CLICK HERE
The new engine in question doesn't have a dizzy on it. Could I maybe look down the hole with a light and tell that way?

I wondered if you would jump on that one. S/N might help with the dizzy. Explain to the owner what you're trying to do and ask him if he knows whether it has a cast or steel cam. Maybe he can get the # off the original dizzy. That might help also. Hang in there you can do his.🛠

Post your various codes and people will try to ID what you have.

Block and head casting codes, and date casting codes, and engine serial number.

If the block is 1954, you still have the distributor gear "problem".

Thanks guys, The link I posted to the ad shows some of those numbers, like the date code. I'm going to look at it (and hopefully bring home) on Friday, so if there's anything I should look for, let me know. Thanks!
If I read the date code on the block right, it says May 19, 1954. (The code is E194)

i have a 235 engine, but i am in pa. but u can have it cheap

This should have been done in a private message.

sorry again Tim

Here's a link from Tom Langdon's web site telling you how to identify which style cam you have.

Langdon's Stovebolt page

Thanks! If this engine has the cast gear and mine is steel, can I swap the gear on my distributor fairly easily?

It would be easier to find the correct distributor.

What kind of prices do those usually run?

NAPA used to sell them for under $100

You might find a good used one through a part wanted ad in the Swap Meet, for much less $$.

Thanks guys. I'm just a little skeptical still...sure the engine looks great, but it started out as a pasture find that the guy got running. He said he originally had the intention of putting it back in his 3100, but later decided to put an LS engine in it. He says he completely re-sealed the engine, put on a head that had been rebuilt 6 or 7 years ago (because he said it was smoking a little, so he hopes the head fixed it), then painted the engine.
Since he did all that work the engine hasn't ran at all, so nobody knows if the new head fixed the smoking or even if the new seals hold. He has no compression readings, but he said we could get some when I go to see the engine. I'd really like to see/hear the engine run, but with a missing distributor, vacuum line, carb, starter, etc. that may be tough. Even though it looks nice, it seems like a crap shoot, especially for $600. Who knows...the bottom end may be shot, or the rings bad. He did say a mechanic looked at it and said the cam had a couple flat spots on it, but should be good for a while yet.
Any thoughts/opinions/advice?
Thanks

Sounds high, even if can run a compression test, might be low from sitting/sticking parts, plus missing pieces.

Ed

A head rebuild correctly is worth $600.00, but who knows what was done with that.
Sounds like a $200.00 engine at best.

That's what I'm thinking, Dave. I'll try to bring him down some, then make my decision based off that.
Actually, funny story. I told him I would be putting it in a 2 ton grain truck, and we got to talking about farming. Turns out both our families farm near the same town in SW OK. Also turns out his wife's grandmother is a very good family friend! Small world!

Also Dave, he said the head was rebuilt, then installed on one of his dad's trucks. I guess they must not use the truck much because they took the head off that truck and put it on this engine.

Having heard the "rest of the story", I'm with Dave. No matter how pretty it looks it hasn't been overhauled. It hasn't run in its present condition. It smoked when it did run. It's a $200 core. His asking price is way out of line for a non-proven engine. Plus side, it is out of the truck so it could be reringed fairly easily. Proceed with caution.🛠

Guess I'm still stuck looking for a 1950-52 head that isn't ridiculously priced. I can find 53 and later heads fairly easily and cheap, but I've only found one 1950-52 head, and for a bare casting, the guy was extremely proud of it. Plus it was way up north, so shipping put the last nail in the coffin.

If you have a 2 ton truck, and are thinking about changing the engine, GMC 270 or 302's are only slightly longer(move radiator fwd in core support) and give more power, modern GM 292 also for that matter.

Ed

A "little bit of cam wear" is like being a little bit pregnant- - - -things ain't going to get any better and they get worse in a hurry! That situation alone makes the engine worth scrap iron value, or at least it makes it a "rebuildable core", not a good candidate for a swap without some serious, and expensive work. The metal that wore off the cam lobes and lifters had to go somewhere, and that metallic contamination finds its way to every other oil-lubricated piece of the engine. Offer him $100.00 for the engine and don't negotiate!
Jerry

Second.

Ed

There's a head out there somewhere.

I'm gonna check some stuff and see. Some 216s I have might accidentally be a splasher 235.

If there's a vintage junkyard anywhere nearby, don't forget to look at the 1950-52 powerglide cars.

Thanks guys, I think I may just stick with my dipper 235. I did find a head, and that's the good part.

I removed all the shims I could in my rods to get clearances from .001-.002, with most being .0015.

Now the next problem...I ordered new rings from NAPA for a 1951 235, (The parts guy said they would fit) but it turns out the ring grooves in my cast iron pistons are different thicknesses...I didn't know that. The new rings I got are all the same thickness. Because of that, the rings that go in the top groove won't fit, but the rings that go in the 2nd groove do fit. I haven't tried the oil rings yet.
What do you guys suggest I do there? I still have my old rings, but they're just stacked in a pile. I'd hate to stick them back in, but I don't know where I can get a set of rings that are 2 different thicknesses.
Thanks!

Will the set of rings you bought fit a set of new pistons? Looks like you can buy aluminum ones on eBay for $120 or so.

I have no idea. It would be my luck I invest in new pistons, just to have them be wrong as well.
The idea was just do a valve job and re-ring to get my by for a few years, until I had the time, place, and funds to do a 100% complete overhaul and make the engine look and perform like new.

I'm not a big fan of just cobbling something together but, take your compression ring to your local NAPA (if Yukon doesn't have one, we do here in ER) see if they are willing to help you research what years actually look like what you have. If it can be determined then just buy the right set. Good luck, you're getting close.🛠

Since the top groove is too narrow, it's a simple job for a good machinist to open the groove up to fit the rings you have. I've done that on several engines over 40-somewthing years, and never had a problem. Make the correction cut toward the top of the piston so you don't weaken the ring land between the first and second ring. Just be sure to hang onto the part number for the ring set so you can order the same one if it's ever necessary to rebuild the engine again. The piston doesn't care what size ring is on it, as long as the clearance between the ring and the groove is correct.
Jerry

Believe me, I hate cobbling as well. One of my grandpas was the biggest cobbler in the world, and it drove me nuts, not only because it was cobbled, but it was usually very unsafe.
The only reason I'm doing it this way is because I'm in college and don't have a lot of time or (especially) money to put into it right now. This is just a band-aid until I get on my feet, so to speak.

Hotrod Lincoln....that is a good idea, but would a 235 engine really do good with a 216 ring???