The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline DIY tire balancing

How close can you get if you were to back off your front brake adjuster to get as little drag possible, then bolting on your wheel/tire and observing how the heavy side settles? Also, some of the motorcycle guys rave about how great Dynabeads are. Truck tires are pretty big so I assume they'd be cost prohibitive.

A tire with enough of a heavy spot to do that would dribble itself down the road like a basketball. I have fabricated a motorcycle wheel static balancer by using small ball bearings lubed with light machine oil mounted on a piece of 1/2" all thread that worked pretty well, but a wide tire like one on a stovebolt needs dynamic (rolling) balance a lot more than static.
Jerry

When I tell the tire shop to only put weights on the INSIDE of the wheel so the outside won't look like crap after a few balancings, is there any reason it wouldn't be possible to get a good dynamic balance with a modern 215-85-16 on original AD wheels? It's a pretty heavy tire and I suspect original wheels can be pretty unbalanced compared to modern wheels.

Just hate having goofball shops touch any of my property, especially the stovebolt stuff.

Totally agree with Jerry. Back in the 60's used to get away with bubble balancing bias ply tires, but dynamic balance is the only way to go today.

Found a bead kit for light trucks under $30 tax/ship included. At that price it's worth a try. Apparently works best on higher profile and motorcycle tires, not so well on low profile tires.

A good tire shop should be able/willing to try to put all balance weights on the inner side.
But, this is not always possible, depending on balance of wheel/tire.
It helps the shop if you do not mind that all tires do not have to have the same side outwards (black walls, obviously).

True and balance tires on the vehicle.

Even though weights should usually be place on both sides of the wheel, I had the shop put them only on the inside (form over function.)

- Lonnie

Beads are another one of those very very controversial topics. Internet is just full of comments and opinions with little or no scientific testing. No tire or vehicle manufacturer recommends or allows beads under any circumstances. If they really worked there would be independent blind testing with scientific repeatability. That testing or documentation does not exist. There are several magazine tests mainly on motorcycles....that concluded they caused no real harm but also did not balance the tire. The parlor trick wit the hose support axle is exactly that.....a parlor trick.

Want a real personal test....put beads in and take the tire to a reputable tire store with Hunter 9700 balancer ......the tire will never balance on the machine. Before I retired I had to resolved dozens ot challenging vehicle vibration issues many were tire related. Complex issues with radial force tire issue or harmonic issues in new tires and or vehicle suspension. $1000's some time $10's of $1000 were spent to resolve these issues and beads were never part of the solution. Before we arrived beads were tried in some cases. Some modern cars and trucks are very sensitive to tire balance issues.

The stovebolt is not a complex suspension and not overly sensitive to balance problems ....but still needs a dynamic balance as other have mentioned. Take your tire in and $40 later your done. Simple and done.........any tire store literally balances 100's of tires per day. If you want weights only on the inside .......a higher end balance machine can be set to accurately place weights on the inside and middle of the rim if needed.

Did I mention beads were controversial........

You might be able to get a half-donkey balance job with stick-on weights on the inside of the wheel as close as possible past center, instead of on the outside of the rim where they belong, but it's usually a difficult, expensive compromise instead of doing it right. If I were running a shop and a customer was so vain he didn't want the balance job done right, I'd either send him down the road to hassle my competition, or do the job on a straight time and materials basis.
Jerry

Points well taken. As for myself and I'm sure other automotive enthusiasts of all stripes, I'd absolutely be glad to pay more than standard $40-and-done jobs cranked out hundreds of times per day and all too often by unskilled boobs who couldn't care less whether they scratch nice collector wheels. (Not that any of you would hire a guy like that in your own shops...just sayin'.) Call it vain if you want, but I painted these wheels and the pinstripes by hand 25 years ago and if outside weights had been used every time they'd look terrible by now.
Might be worth mentioning I'm currently running the stock 216 w/4.11 drivetrain, so 75mph on the freeway ain't gonna be happening. Guess my OP should have been more clear as to whether any DIY methods might work for the 40-45 range I'll be running.

Many modern alum rims do not use outside weights.
Any modern balancer used in a tire shop has the ability to select the weight location. The tire balancer will automatically adjust the amount and location of the weights to off set the change rim location.

Not all the tire guys are unskillled boobs.........doing somethings over and over they may actually get good at it. The balance machine are smarter than the Average boob....so if they just do what it says on the screen they are likely to get a decent result. If mom's mini van does not shake at 75-80 mph your truck will likely be just fine with the boob balance job and if tell them not scratch the rims they may actually be careful.


As for any DIY solutions.........drive it with no weights and see if it shakes. Be sure to try various speeds and road surfaces.
If it shakes try the static balance ( on car loose bearing ) or use bubble balance and see if gets better or worse ( shaking). Nothing to loose other time and alittle money in weights. Harbor Freight sells a bubble balance setup. Bubble balance or no balance was the common choices back in the day.

Beads are another one of those very very controversial topics. Internet is just full of comments and opinions with little or no scientific testing. No tire or vehicle manufacturer recommends or allows beads under any circumstances. If they really worked there would be independent blind testing with scientific repeatability. That testing or documentation does not exist. There are several magazine tests mainly on motorcycles....that concluded they caused no real harm but also did not balance the tire. The parlor trick wit the hose support axle is exactly that.....a parlor trick.

Want a real personal test....put beads in and take the tire to a reputable tire store with Hunter 9700 balancer ......the tire will never balance on the machine. Before I retired I had to resolved dozens ot challenging vehicle vibration issues many were tire related. Complex issues with radial force tire issue or harmonic issues in new tires and or vehicle suspension. $1000's some time $10's of $1000 were spent to resolve these issues and beads were never part of the solution. Before we arrived beads were tried in some cases. Some modern cars and trucks are very sensitive to tire balance issues.

The stovebolt is not a complex suspension and not overly sensitive to balance problems ....but still needs a dynamic balance as other have mentioned. Take your tire in and $40 later your done. Simple and done.........any tire store literally balances 100's of tires per day. If you want weights only on the inside .......a higher end balance machine can be set to accurately place weights on the inside and middle of the rim if needed.

Did I mention beads were controversial........
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Wow,, I almost don't know how to phrase a response,, so. by paragraph, Beads are without a doubt the best and longest lasting balance method for motorcycle tires, the elimination of cupping of the tires alone is worth the price of admission. What in the world is "the parlor trick wit the hose support axle)? Been to hundreds of motorcycle events and I have never seen anything with a hose selling beads.
2) Try to balance a tire with beads in it on a dynamic balancer? REALLY? with even a rudimentary understanding of the balancer you must realize that you would never reach a fast enough speed to push the beads to the outside of the tire. It would appear you have found the real "PARLOR TRICK " here.

Literally thousands of steer tires on trucks are mounted with beads inside every day, They do not do it just to spend an extra $50 on a pair of tires.

The old John Bean Visubalancer I used for 20-something years spun the tire up to approximately 100 MPH. If someone was skilled and patient, it did a better job than many of the supposedly state of the art computerized balancers I've used since then. It would be very unprofitable in a high-volume tire shop where the balancer does all the thinking for the mouth-breather running it. Of course, it involved a 2-step balancing procedure, doing a static balance first, then spinning the wheel for checking the dynamic balance. It would be impossible to use beads on that setup because they would alter the static balance with the wheel stopped.
Jerry

The Hunter 9700 spins the tire at 290-300 rpm. With an accuracy of ± 0.01 oz (0.28 g) with a weight placement accuracy of 512 positions, ± 0.35°.

Jerry, I remember those well, I think the one we had was Hunter.
The deal with the beads is that the beads is all that is used. It works by centrifical force, as you speed up the beads flow out inside the tire and some how settle at the light spots therefore balancing the tire. Don't even ask, I have no idea how or why, I left college about 5 years shy of receiving my doctorate. Your use of the "original spin balancer" would actually work if you spun up to 40 or 50 mph, left the rings at zero, and wait 30 seconds or so and I'll bet the light stops flashing.
Funny, I was at the tire shop today, and one of the techs loaded a couple new tires in the service truck, went back in the shop and when he came back out he had 2 bags of beads in his hand.
I see I did not mention, it takes about 35 or 40 mph for them to settle in and work.

This is for my spare 30-inch radials without tubes on original tube rims. If not for possibly knocking off a paint or rust chip over a rivet and causing an air leak, I'd def try the beads. Sure willing to give'beads a try, but there's also the question of getting them out if they don't work. DIY is what I had in mind, and mounting/demounting those big tires on narrow original rims to remove beads would be plenty difficult on a Harbor Freight changer. So instead of messing with the beads will probably bend over grab my ankles and just take 'em to the shop for balancing.

For now I'm running 27.5-inch modern tires on new tubeless rims. Plan to use the 30's whenever a longer/highway trip is planned. Also, have finally managed to rebuild an original 4.11 drivetrain, so now I have two complete torque tubes, 4.11 & 3.55, and engineered myself a way to quickly change them out, perhaps once a year or whenever the mood strikes.

I just put on some 215's on my 3100 and it did take massive amounts of weight to balance them. I know the next question is why didn't I use beads? My friend took me to his shop to use the tire machine that doesn't touch the rim, and the balancer was right there so we did it all.
The beads will cost you around $12 a tire and you are unsure so I would recommend you do them on a conventional machine. Nothing is free,,,,,, Unless you have the right friends!!