The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 12 VOLT FLASHER BEHAVIOR

Been having an issue where my directionals do not work so I was testing my flasher with a test light to see if it was getting power.
So when I touch the flasher post marked LOAD with the test light the test light starts flashing and this is WITHOUT the directional lever engaged. Shouldent this post marked LOAD not light up my test light unless the directionals are engaged ?
Hope you can understand what i am asking about.
Without the directionals on when I touch the post on the flasher marked LOAD using the test light, the test light starts to blink. Should it do that ?????
It must be getting power continously instead of on demand as in using the directionals.

It can be confusing. This link shows a wiring diagram that will better describe how it works. Yes, the flasher is wired to always be hot. Nothing happens until the turn signal switch completes the circuit to either side of the vehicle.

Matt

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turn-signal1.htm

Matt s correct. You are using a test light which acts as a load or path to ground as a normal turn signal lamp would. To avoid this, one must use a high impedance test instrument such as a DVM or VOM. My personal choice for car work is the VOM. These instruments are not really necessary for what you are doing as long as you understand it's limitations. The test instruments do become necessary for troubleshooting other problems.

Thanks guys........I did not realize that the flasher is always hot....I cannot get a flashing bulp when using the turn signals but do have parking lights that work.....I have my flasher hooked up as follows: X= ignition L= to directional switch P= to pilot light
Any suggestions ?
This all started when I turned the 4 way flasher on. It blew a fuse.
I have the standard type aftermarket directionals sold by Jim Carter and other vendors for $25. which has the emergency flasher knob.
I did discover that the flasher knob will not stay in the pulled out or engaged position.so ....I will have to open up the directional again to see what is going on...

Sounds like your problem is in your directional switch if it's like the ones I've worked on. When you engage the four way flasher the direction switch is taken out of the circuit. I believe your four way has welded itself in the engaged position. You may be able to save your switch by opening it up and repairing it. They are fairly simple sets of slider type contacts. I would suggest you also troubleshoot what caused the blown fuse and switch problem. Otherwise, you may very well repeat what you are now trying to fix.

Hi Beltfed....I have corrected the 4 way flasher non engagement. ....I did not have the cover fully seated when I put it back together after I took it apart to see if I could find the problem....I have not found the no directional problem yet.
The best I have been able to do is to get the pilot light on the directionals to light up when the iginition key is turned on. When I turn the flasher stem to right or left I get no blinking light. The pilot light just stays lit.

COULD THIS BE A GROUND PROBLEM ?

I believe how this happened is that the flasher post or the flasher wires themselves shorted against the dash brace as I did not have it secured properly. :{

Without sounding like we are chasing our tail.
Need to know...does the pilot light come on with directional switch in neutral position? If so, something is wrong in your wiring or you or your flasher may be bad.
For the flasher can to operate the directional switch needs to be in a turn condition to have a bulb resistance in series to a ground. The four way uses a separate flasher can.

The pilot light does come on when the directional is in the neutral position....I never really paid attention to notice if it was always on before but I thought it was ????? If it is not supposed to be on then I will start with changing the flasher can,
You stated that the 4 way flasher uses a separate can but I only have one can, not two....I have used the 4 way flasher previously without an issue....thanks

You said your flasher flashes when the test light was in it. So it's good. You need to start over with your wiring. Look at each wire to see that it goes to the correct component. NO MATTER WHAT COLOR IT IS. The new switch probably has certain colors and a diagram on how to wire. But you can't trust that the existing wires, that you are attaching to, are the correct colors. Wire it by function. When you do this, do it with an eye that it is wrong, not that you did everything right. If you don't, you will miss the mis-wire again. You already know something is wrong, so find it. Chances are that the switch is good, so it's the hook up. If you have also messed with other lighting wiring and grounds, could be other wiring mistakes.

Questions:
How did you attach existing wires to the new turn signal switch? By colors? by a connector? figured it out by function? Rethink and double check this part. With it hooked up right now, do you have brake lights? Did you install dual filament bulbs in rear or do you have separate lights? What exact fuse was blown?

Commentary not aimed at you:
Assumptions and egos do not belong in troubleshooting. Don't trust any wire or wiring, unless you absolutely know where it goes.


I know you know how the 7 wire turn signal is wired. Is it the 7 wire, 12V sold by J. Carter? Just trying to jog the procedure to help you discover something. You can't simply match colors and expect it to work.

1. A wire to flasher P
2. A wire to flasher L
3. A wire to stop light switch
4. A wire to Front left bulb directly
5. A wire to Front right bulb directly
6. A wire to Rear left bulb brake filament directly
7. A wire to Rear right bulb brake filament directly

Notes:
None of the above go thru the headlight switch.
The turn signal switch has three power inputs. Two from flasher, one from brake switch.
The turn signal switch has four outputs. front and rear light bulbs. 3+4=7. It has a fifth "internal output" to the pilot bulb.
Flasher gets ignition hot to X.
Other side of stop switch gets batt pos (hot).
As said, the pilot light should not be lit, only when flashing occurs. That's your big hint to a miswire or malfunctioning switch, can't return a disassembled switch.
All bulb sockets need to be grounded to chassis thru their metal to metal contact to the chassis or frame and back to the neg battery post thru your various ground straps.
Check all four bulbs to see that they light. All filaments.

It sounds like taking switch apart, not getting it back together properly, pinching wires at the column, pilot on and a blown fuse could indicate you are rushing thru this or not studying the issues first. Slow down. Taking a new turn signal switch apart is a bad idea. It's entire function can be checked with a continuity test.
There is no doubt you will fix it shortly. It is just a small mix up somewhere.

Mr. Bartomas,
Well done, very well done indeed!

Stupid question. Is your directional signal switch compatible with your wire harness? I ran into this issue. Needed a guy that did automotive wiring to get it to work properly despite having it wired as per directions. My pilot light does not work.

Chris

Bartamos...thank you for all the work explaning the directional system, this is extremely helpful. I will try to answer some questions.

I have had the truck a year or so and the directionals were installed by the previous owner. All worked well for over a year. Then on a daily drive I put my directionals on and pulled over and then I engaged the 4 way flashers and I blew a fuse.When I got back to the house I double checked the fuse and it was blown. So I put in a new fuse and everything was still dead. That is where I am presently.

I have checked all bulb filliments and all are intack and all bulbs light up including brake lights,parking lights and headlights...The flasher canister is getting power and so is the directional pilot bulb which is the center position on the directionals. The center section of the directionals has 3 plastic lenses set down into the directionals, the center plastic insert is red, the other two, left & right are green in color and these green inserts are where you see the flash as you make your turn. When the directionals are not engaged the little pilot light is in the red zone in the certer and this is always lit when the iginition is on....I am not sure if the center red section was lit for the last year as I never really noticed but if it was not supposed to be lit then why have a red plastic lens there ????

The directional kit appears to be the same one Jim Carter is selling in his catalogue page 38, item #EL13312 for $25.

I will find out what is going on eventually and will post what I find. Since all worked well for over a year and I did not take anything apart or change anything till after the fuse blew.When the new fuse did not fix the issue then I opened the directional case to see if maybe the 4 way flasher sliding section had shorted out on something but all seems ok. Then i installed a new flasher to see if that was the problem but no deal still have no directionals or 4 way flashers.
I will post when I find out what the problem has been....thanks agian for all the support help. ......

I would sure like to know what is on that fuse. Didn't see that answer yet? Please examine and follow the actual wires coming out of the fuse (output side), not what it says it is. What does it feed? Be SURE fuse is good. 100% SURE. Test output side of fuse while in the holder with your test light. If you don't know what side of fuse is input and which is output, take out fuse and test with test light. The clip that is hot is the input side. But I still need to know what fuse and what it feeds!!!! When you take out fuse, is X still hot? Brake lights work? What goes dead?
What fuse panel do you have? A modern one or an original? Was the fuse that blew marked hazard? or what?
Did you check to see if the new fuse blew as soon as installed? If it's good, does it blow when hazard is pulled? Is it the correct amperage? If the old fuse blew because it was old or spiked and you put in a under amp fuse, it will blow. The hazard mode would be 5 bulbs at once.
If you put in the same amp fuse, you did it right.

On your switch the red light flashes in the hazard mode. Green lights flash in turn mode. None are on all the time.

Test:
Do not do this test unless that fuse is not blown. Try one more fuse and watch it blow. If it does, you must STOP and begin a search for a short.
If it's OK, continue as follows:

Take the flasher out of it's socket and leave it out. Test for hot on X socket. If hot, proceed. All lights off. Move turn signal lever to left turn. Make a jumper wire. One end to X socket (that you just tested for hot) and the other end to L socket. Check to see if Front Left and Rear Left bulbs are lit. Turn lever to right turn, check right bulbs. Turn lever to center each time to see bulbs go off. Move the jumper to connect X to P, operate left and right lever and see if green is lit. When you do these jumper tests you MUST ONLY touch for a second in case something is shorted and you must have an observer or a mirror set up to see the front and rear lights or do it at night.


Bottom line:
1. There may be a wire that came loose from a splice, etc. when you were driving.
2. Sometimes a bad bulb can cause this stuff, even a green or red bad bulb (this is a low probability)
3. If park lights come on that tests the front bulbs.
4. If you push on the brakes and the brake lights come on, that should be sufficient for the rear filaments.
5. How many tail lights? How many bulbs in each light? How many filaments in each bulb?
6. Please report how the turn signal switch is wired to the harness. The next steps may include bypassing the turn signal switch so I need to know how it's connected. With a connector that can come apart or what? Should be near column wire exit hole or under dash. Then we can power up, or check continuity of, the various circuits to the lights. We can get them to light and blink, it will identify if the switch is the bad guy or not. This is later depending on all of above results.

Bartamos.....I now have directionals and a 4 way flasher again.....ALL IS GOOD...turned out to be a splice connection that looked secure but it had become loose in the connector....
Here is what I think happened....when I turned off the road on my drive and put on my 4 way flasher I think the hot wire on the flasher can was touching the metal dash as I did not have the flasher can secured properly, it was just hanging loosely and when I turned on the 4 way flasher it blew the fuse....so when I got home I saw that the fuse was blown and replaced it and while i was securing the can I must have pulled on the harness wire splice causing it to seperate in the connector but still looking secure....how cow...what a project.

I have learned so much about the directionals thru your tutorials ...Following your advise,I traced every wire (7) coming from the directionals to it`s end source and then labelled every wire....

I cant thank you enough for using your knowledge to help out another stove bolter...your the best....

Good result. Glad if I helped any. Is the red light off now? Maybe it was never on, just the light/sun reflection?

Yes the red light is off now...I never realized before your electrical tutorial that the center section of red plastic on the directionals was for the 4 way flasher as I only turned the 4 way on once before when I first got the truck and then once more when I blew the fuse. I thought that was a pilot light to tell me that the directionals had power......I am going to print out all your great info for my repair files in case I need it again sometime...thanks again