The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Split Rim Conversion

Ok Boys I know I'm not the first one to think of this. My 3600 has the OE split rims that we all dislike and are dangerous. I've not taken one apart yet, but if you were to weld the split rim solid, could the modern tire store tools break 'em down ? This seems too obvious and simple to actually work. Been talking to fella that wants about $300 each for some 19" 8 lugs. What do you guys think?

That's been discussed many times before- - - -it's utterly impossible because the split rims don't have a drop center for the tire bead to fall into while it's being pried over the rim. It's also impossible to do a good enough job of welding to make a rim air tight, and there's no way to get a tube and an inner liner into a drop-center rim. Tubeless tires on the correct drop center rims are the only possible substitute.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry. I knew it was too good to be true. I'll bet you a lunch, it's been tried once or twice before.

Start searching yards, don't ask, they will not know anything, just get in there and look around yourself. Be aware, there are older 19.5's that might not fit over modern brakes, so make sure to try them out.

Ed

What size tires are on the truck now? I don't recall the Firestone RH-5 wheels ever being used on 3600 series trucks, just the bigger ones. If you've got 16" wheels with locking outer rings on them and tube type tires, there's nothing wrong with running most of those wheels. They are not the "widowmakers" that are dangerous to run. Just be sure the wheels and the lock rings are not badly rusted, bent, or damaged. It requires a little caution and common sense to mount and inflate the tires safely, but they're not the deadly dangerous things some guys with lace on their drawers make them out to be. If you can take some well-focused pictures of the wheels you're running and post a link to them, it should be simple to figure out if you really need to spend a bunch of money on tubeless tires and new rims.
Jerry

Jerry, I just ran out to the shop. It has 15" rims. I'll take a good pic tomorrow and post it.

Ken, I meant 19.5's, I was being brief. Matt, got me headed that direction as he has them on his 3600 and got a material rpm reduction vs. the smaller wheels. That fella listing the 5 wheels/tires on ebay is the one I've been talking too. Don't want the tires.

If these are the ones that aren't so dangerous, I'll just clean 'em up and mount some used tires on 'em until I get the disc brake conversions on so I can make sure everything clears. May be a little premature to pull the trigger on these high dollar alternatives.

The smaller rims have two basic designs, one a little safer that the other. The best design has a removable ring on the outside of the rim, with a narrow split in it. The other, somewhat less safe type has a full-circle removable ring, with a couple of small relieved areas to allow it to be pried off the main wheel assembly. This type has a pretty narrow locking area, and it's pretty susceptible to rust and damage from improper tire-mounting procedures. My 1959 3800 had that type of rim, in the 18" size. A couple of them were VERY difficult to align properly while inflating the tires. The split lock ring rim is pretty idiot-proof if you use just a little common sense when mounting the tires, and the more air pressure is applied, the tighter the ring locks into place.

If a sectional-rim tire is more than just a few pounds low on pressure, don't attempt to air it back up without breaking things down and finding out why the pressure is low. NEVER attempt to re-inflate a flat on a sectional rim!
Jerry

2 pc rims

Mine are the non split ring type.

You guys would make it a lot easier if you just use the names your mother gave you. Sorry Ken Law (Bart). Matt is Maybelline, folks that have been on here a while know him well.

At first glance, those look to be in pretty good condition. Once the tires are deflated and the beads are driven away from the rim flanges with a duckbill hammer or a slide hammer, you can find a small slot in the removable ring and pry part of it over the main wheel assembly, then gently tap it with a hammer. There is a relieved area of the ring that lets it slide sideways. Reassembly is the reverse of those operations once the new tire, tube, and inner liner are in place. Be sure to clean everything thoroughly with a wire brush in a drill motor or a small angle grinder and inspect the mating surfaces for distortion or rust damage. Brute force is not required, just a little patience and finesse. Put a few pounds of air pressure in the tube to seat the ring to the main wheel and either use several wraps of heavy chain around the wheel or an inflation cage (preferred) while bringing the tire up to full pressure. Millions of trucks ran hundreds of millions of miles with these rims, and most of them didn't go off like Fat Man or Little Boy and destroy whole cities. These days, we're living in a society of snowflakes who couldn't pour pee out of a boot without printed instructions on the heel.
Jerry

Hello Jerry, thanks for the lesson. I've got a couple (3) that I would like to use on my 1951 frame. I also was not sure about getting them apart and back together again. I'm glad you posted the reply. I know the basics but needed a little push. Thanks as always. Oh, my drawers don't have no lace on them. 😂😉

Managed to get one apart today. What a mess. Had to use the tractor bucket to break the tire off the wheel. I'll media blast it to see how thin the badly rusted sections are. The valve stem hole is wallowed out a bit. If nothing else I can use them to roll the frame around in the shop. Going to let the tire shop do the rest of 'em.

I found some 8 lug X 6 1/2 pattern and 16" wheels that'll take trim rings and caps. Back space is the same as mine. The center bore was quoted as 4 3/4" by Coker. The best I can come up with measuring mine is 4 11/16". So in old truck speak is that the same?

That's probably close enough. I've made minor adjustments in wheel center holes with a die grinder a few times- - - -cut a little, check for fit- - - -rinse and repeat! It sounds like those wheels are 1/16" bigger than yours already, so they would center up with the lug nuts and maybe leave a tiny gap at the hub. 8-lug 16" trailer wheels for tubeless tires have been known to find their way onto a lot of old 3/4 ton trucks- - - - -just don't tell the DOT about it!
Jerry

I think Coker now has nice 8 lug rims but they are very pricy. I run trailer wheels. If the trailer wheels are engineered to carry a trailer with a vehicle on it, I dont see how they could be worse than 60+ year old wheels.

The trailer wheels are great- - - -they just don't have the DOT certification to be used on passenger-carrying vehicles, so some tire shops won't put them on your truck. It might be necessary to get them mounted and balanced, and not mention what they're going to be run on. If you live in most places where common sense is the order of the day, no problem!
Jerry

I think these look fine, much like the Coker's, and little more than 1/2 the price. Center bore looks fine. I was trying to get a little wider rim, 8 or 10". Has anyone found a wider one, that would take a baby moon hubcap and trim rings?

https://www.etrailer.com/Tires-and-Wheels/Dexstar/AM20766.html

What is the difference between trailer wheels and passenger vehicle wheels?

Not the rating difference, the usage/safety difference?

If anything, the trailer wheels are probably stronger. There might be some sort of special DOT rating for radial tires on passenger vehicles, but it's been a long time since I studied wheel and tire regulations so I could teach the subject with some sort of correct information.

I had a friend who spent 30+ years working for DOT, but his specialty was writing regulations for pressure vessels like Propane, Oxygen, Acetyline, and similar cylinders used in interstate commerce. He could tell some scary stories about railroad tank cars carrying pressurized gases, etc.
Jerry

Could be it's the same wheel with a DOT stamp and a higher price to cover the stamp!

Mike B

That's what they do with airplane parts. The exact same connecting rod bolts and nuts that fit a Continental industrial engine cost six times as much when they're FAA certified for an aircraft engine! I encountered that when I reconditioned a set of Continental aircraft connecting rods.
Jerry

Jerry that is a good observation. I hauled the new rims to the shop and had them mount and balance tires on them. They weren't on the truck yet.

Those trailer wheels are the exact ones I run. They ran fine with both 1-ton drums and the monsterous discs I run now.