The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Window changing woe-ness

Gotta a prob, folks. I'm changing out my passenger window that mysteriously cracked while down one day recently. I've done this same window twice before with not much sweat. The first time, I put it in backwards cause I flipped the channel over once while I was putting it together, and had to break it to get it out. But both times I installed those panes they went in the way they should. Tight, but with a little pounding with the rubber beater, they went in. Well, for some reason this time the glass does NOT want to seat into the channel. I wire wheeled it and scraped it with a screwdriver. Then I oiled it, and the tape, too. I've had the thing on my bench vice for an hour, plus even pulled the wife in to tell me all the things I was doing wrong. I went back and used flat head screwdriver and tried to ever-so-slightly run out any tight spots down the channel. Just awhile ago, I had the front end of the glass down the full channel depth, and the back one half way in, and I said screw it!. But by the time I got out to the truck were my oil was to wet the tape, I noticed the pane had worked it's way back up to the initial stopping point of the effort. Just to be clear, I started out with the vise jaws on the bottom 1/8" of the glass channel, but then switched to the running rail frame and that's when I spread the channel with the driver. Anyway, I am just disgusted that a job I said would take 45 minutes due to 'previous experience' has taken all afternoon, and STILL isn't done! So, what do you guys think? Has this ever happened to anybody else? What am I not seeing here??

new glass or used? sounds like a different thickness than previous ones, maybe need a thinner tape

Bill

I don't use setting tape due to problems with variations in glass thickness and setting tape. This is not a problem for a glass shop, as they have a complete inventory of the different thicknesses of everything at their fingertips.
I use black RTV. I let it get tacked up before I slide the glass in. This helps keep the glass stay centered in the channel.
RTV has enough adhesive properties to keep the glass in place. Urethane adhesive is stronger, but the guy who has to deal with broken glass in the future will need to find a new channel, and will try to hunt down and beat the guy who did him thataway. Urethane in a tight channel is nearly impossible to clean out.
Carl

The RTV will work fine (as suggested by Carl, with the stated liabilities) and it might save you a little money

However, if you want original appearance, and you want easier removal/replacement (as Carl warns), buying 3 tape sizes/thicknesses should set you up (excuse the pun). I bought 5 sizes/thicknesses from Restoration Specialties and they have gotten windows done of 3 trucks.

Thanks, guys! The first thing I thought was maybe the glass is thicker than spec, (haven't measured it yet), and as for the tape, it looked like the stuff I'd gotten from Classic Parts before, so I didn't doubt that it would work. The new window was from CP, too. I have rtv sitting on my front porch for the next project in line, so I'll use that. Since this is my daily driver, and I've got a little welding job that needs done, which requires my truck to pull my welder, I will be happy to try something rather than the tape, just to get it done without cracking it. I was really pounding on that thing by the time I quit, and the more I hit it, the more worried I was that the next whack would be the one that destroyed it. And thanks, Tim, for the heads up on Restoration Specialties, too. I've never heard of them before now, but will have a tape selection from them in stock "nest time". (I'm sure there will be one) Something kind of odd about this door's window is that it had a crack in it when I bought it. I changed it once, and it cracked again in about the same place, even though it took from last fall till now to do it. I put a new bumper in last time, too, and as far as I can tell, everything is tight in the system (no parts knocking around to hit anything).
Does anyone know where to find the specs on the slide rail?? If I could find a shop print or the dimension spec on what the glass channel's opening is supposed to be, maybe I could solve the problem by opening it up to the required width- or just buy a new one- if that is the problem. Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. I do appreciate it. Lee

I just checked your link to CP's tapes, Tim, and found that I ordered the tape for "'51 - '72" instead of the stuff that I'd ordered previously for '51-'54. Even though they both show that they're 3/64", the tape that I've got that isn't letting me get the window in is not what I've ordered the two previous times. Maybe that's it. I'm putting it in with rtv this time anyway, but will get a few off of Restoration Specialties for my next one. Thanks again.

Update on what I found inside the door, and a question- I found that the front vertical track/rail that the window is running up and down on has the bottom 3" of felt missing (worn away), and some of the rest of it is pretty worn. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1373/13685773/24611517/413432024.jpg Also, I think the bumper pad for the door/window brace was so old it was useless, so I cut a piece of the 'gas tank to floor' material I have and stuck it in there with 3M Weather strip adhesive. Also, the 'runner' http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1373/13685773/24611517/413432026.jpg, had a circular piece of felt or rubber that was still inside the window channel where the regulator runs back and forth, so what I've got is just the steel 'bobbin' left. I bought a set of new rollers quite a while ago, http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1373/13685773/24611517/413432025.jpg ,but don't want to put 'new plastic parts' in to replace the original steel if I don't need to.

So my two questions are A), do you think that lack of felt down on the bottom of the rail could have anything to do with the failing glass panes? or will an overly tight glass pane channel cause a cracked glass? B) Is there any place that I can get the replacement part that goes over the steel roller that's attached to the regulator? (so I don't have to replace a good, steel part with a cheap plastic part).

the felt shouldn't matter, I've had a number of trucks the felt was nearly all gone and the windows still worked - it seems possible that those steel rollers could be allowing the lower glass channel to twist when you apply the torque to raise the window, which would stress the pane .... if the steel roller is missing vital bits, it's not a "good" roller

Bill

There are no "rollers" on the stock window regulators. They had round leather washers which slide in the track. Classicparts.com carries plastic rollers which are easy to install and work very well. You simply remove the old pin/rivet which formerly held the leather sliders, and install the new plastic rollers in the hole where the old one was and mash the rivet end holding it in place.
BTW, with all of the trouble which you have had with multiple broken panes of glass, I cannot understand why you did not replace ALL of the window tracks and stop bumper while you had the door apart......twice.
Carl

Fwiw, F*rd Transits had an ongoing problem where the front felt would slide out the glass guide channel allowing the glass to contact the metal directly,IF the door glass was half way down or more,closing the door could and did cause even a tempered glass to shatter.
So by my reckoning it could potentially cause the issues you've had.

A tight glass,especially if laminated could/would crack due to flex caused by the forces imposed by the regulator,they can generate considerable torque due to the gearing.
I've witnessed inner door skins flexing by sticking/binding glass while trying to operate the regulator regardless if it's manual or electric.

I have to agree with Carls last statement too.

Ok, guys, so it's been a while, but I've now replaced not only the glass, but also the channel it rides in and the front weatherstrip in the front channel (back of the vent window). I was going to replace the flexible section on the top/back of the window, but when I realized I need to move the clip off the old w.s. to the new one, I decided against that. Actually, it looks like the w.s on both doors has been replaced already, and the rear wasn't worn down to the metal like the bottom of the front channel was. I now have a small problem (the old weather strip now leaves a 3/8" gap at the top/front of the window), so I'll probably end up replacing it anyway. Another problem I'm seeing is that the old upper metal retainers which stick into the top of the weather strip to keep the top of it from falling down when the window is down, have lost their little triangle 'punch outs' which attach them to the w.s., and I can't find replacements ANYWHERE! (yet) If anyone knows where I can get some of these, please let me know. I'm not having any luck. Thanks, Lee

A lot of folks don't use the original style retainers and just use tiny self-taping screws to hold the channels in place. It only takes a few. One near the bottom/rear, rear corner, and top front near vent channel.

I loosened the vent channel and tucked the window channel above the vent channel to hold it there and it worked great.

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