The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop engine rebuild

After five weeks, I finally got an estimate from the machine shop for my engine (1960 235). Good block, good head, bunch of new parts and machine work. They want $3220.83 for parts and machine work, including new cam, new lifters, new pistons and rings, new bearings all around, new valves and guides, plus boring the block, turning the crank, re-facing the flywheel, new seals, and a gasket set. Whew! more than I had expected, but I should end up with a great engine.
Does this sound outrageous? Never had this done before, so I don't know.

Yes, it does but at my age price is not the highest concern.
The tough question: is this the only engine you want in that car? Is it important enough to you (not to the next owner) that it has a 235 that it's worth more money than a 292, V8, etc?
Is it going to be fast enough (never would for me)?

"Does this sound outrageous?"

No, that is what I paid 3 years ago, and I supplied the new cam.

- Make sure they use mechanical/truck lifters.

- Make sure them to magnaflux/check the head for cracks.

- Politely ask them to be sure that all crud is out of the block, especially at the rear (all cooling system passage/journals/etc).

- If it is a car engine, get a new, truck, cam gear.

Will they paint the engine?
If yes, choose your shade of gray (they might paint it car engine blue).

From what I have read on here for several years the $3200 is a bit on the low side of the norm. Sounds fair enough that if it were mine, I had the money and wanted a 235 in my truck, I would go for it.🛠

It does not sound out of line to me. With all the machine work and new parts, the engine should be as good or better than new. I am assuming they are putting it together and it will have a warranty.

Since it is going in a 53 1-ton, speed is obviously not a big concern to me. I just want a solid, dependable engine. As far as solid/hydraulic lifters, the engine came out of a car and had hydraulic lifters in it, and I am planing on putting hydraulics back. I don't know how much difference it makes in power (if any) but I like the convenience of hydraulics. Is there a specific reason to go with solids?
Tim

I wish I'd only spent $3200 on my 216.

Let me pick up on two things that Tim said.

I'd recommend going beyond having them Magnuflux the head and have them pressure test it. I recently had one pass the Magnuflux test be fail the pressure test. It had a pin hole leak where hardened exhaust seats had been installed by someone else.

Hot tanking rarely cleans out the back of the block where the rear drain is as Tim mentions. This takes mechanical digging to clear. I have a hunch that many blocks get rebuilt by shops without going through that step.

There are two additional items that I'd recommend. Have them drill and tap the crank snout so that you can add a bolt to the harmonic balancer. You can search that subject and read about Hotrod Lincoln's kit to do this task, but you might as well have the machine shop do it when the crank is being turned. And have them modify the timing plate per the link to the below Tech Tip. It is easy to do when the engine is torn down and you'll be glad you did it if you ever have to pull the timing plate in the future. The only thing that I do different than what is described in the Tech Tip is that I use 3/8" fine thread bolts instead of coarse threads.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/timing%20cover%20mod/

And I don't think that the price seems outrageous. If you want to compare, you can go to Deve's link below to see copies of invoices for machine work on a 235. That was for the machine work only with Deve doing the rebuild.

http://devestechnet.com/Home/Project1959235

Matt

Excellent advice from Matt.

I am ambivalent as to fine/coarse on the timing cover bolts?
I have had no problems with coarse threads.

As I understand, the price does not include assembly, which is fine with me. And yes, I am having the crank drilled and tapped for a bolt. I had looked at parts prices earlier, and figured the parts alone would run about $1300, so the machine work and cleaning would be about #2000. I'm still unsure about solid/hydraulic lifters, which I assume will require a different cam, which might change the price.
By the way, about 10 years ago I did a similar rebuild on a Jeep 4.0 six, and the price was about $1000 less. I guess that's inflation. And a much more recent engine (1986 vs 1960).
Tim

If you are using an original cam, it is my undestanding that the same cam was used?

Now, that price seems high - no assembly.

Have you disassembled the engine already?
If so, $3,200 is a "I-don't-really-want-to-do-this-job" price.
$3,200 would be a good price if they assembled it to the shortblock stage.
You may want to shop around some more.
Carl

They are talking about a new cam, not reusing the old one. So I have the option of getting a new cam for solid lifters, or a new cam for hydraulic lifters.
I disassembled the engine myself, and then took the pieces to them. I have never worked with this machine shop before, I think they are part of some national chain. They are Precision Machine Inc, PMI, and I am dealing with the Jefferson City Missouri store. I was a bit upset that it took them five weeks to tell me what needed to be done, and I wouldn't know now except that I called them today to see what was going on. I feel like I am stuck with them, which I don't mind if the price is semi reasonable. I need to talk to them some more, something they said on the phone made me think that they might be doing some assembly. Of course, it is the holiday weekend, so nothing will happen until Tuesday.
Tim

If they are putting a replacement cam to match the original came, the same cam was used on mechanical/hydraulic lifers (in trucks / on cars).

It sounds like the might be getting you a modified-lift cam and matching lifters.

A different cam gear was used on cars vs trucks (composition vs mestal), either type will work. The composition gear supposedly ran quieter, and the metal gear was stronger/longer-lasting.

Just remember: there's a difference between "if that's really what it costs, I have to pay it", and "it must be good since it's so expensive".
You don't always get what you pay for, and $$$ doesn't mean best.

Speed is always a concern, and even more so when the chassis is heavy.

Panic,
I would say that speed is not a concern, rather torque/power. With the old 4 speed and rear end, even with 17" rims this will never be fast. But years ago, when I drove it down here from Champaign, IL it ran at 55 with no problem. And with the low 1st gear, it will pull anything.
Tim

This is why it's a tough choice to spend $$$ rebuilding these achy-old stovebolts: Chevy Crate motor And that is tax free, delivered to your door..

Awesome thread guys. Thanks Matt for digging up Deve's invoice. Lots of good info here. I'll add one link at the bottom for another V8 option (not what Tim is looking for, but to compare to Dave's Summit link). This guy makes the Texas swap meets and has a sound history and is a solid guy. Sounds like we've established the "market" for machine work and rebuild parts on these 235's, ex assembly. Somewhere between $2600 and $3200 depending on your location. Although it would be great satisfaction, given the risk of screwing something up since I don't do it everyday, think I'll pay an expert to put it all together. Think a warranty is a stretch though. Worth asking.

SBC Ready to Go option

When I rebuilt my original 235 in 2015 it was converted to modern 2 piece bearings instead of the factory babbitt bearings, otherwise a standard rebuild replaced the pistons (aluminum), cam (stock), rebuilt head, resurfaced the intake and exhaust manifolds. The motor rebuild cost me $2000. My machinist MIke @ Ramco machine here in SLC assembled the bottom end, and I assembled and painted the rest. Everything was hot tanked, but I don't think it was magnafluxed or pressure tested.
I also had the distributor, generator, and starter rebuilt at local shops adding another $500, radiator $400 and I rebuilt the carb, and fuel pump for $100 in kits. I should also mention the $300 muffler/exhaust and the new cloth wiring harness $500, SM420 rebuild $500, R&R clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing $250, motor and tranny mounts $120, etc, etc.
Most of my driving has been stop and go sometimes hauling 4-6k in town top speed of 50mph.
The truck is a LoadMaster 4400 stake bed, with dual rear wheels, and weighs about 6000lbs.
I have been tracking my fuel economy for the last two tanks, and so far I am averaging 6.5mpg.
I know some members have spent less, some the same, and a few 10x more, I have almost 2000 miles on the motor now and have had no problems, nor do I have any regrets.