The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Full rebuild on a 235

Looking for input on what direction I should go. This will be long winded as I want to give you guys what info you might need in order to give me your opinion on what way I should go.

What I have is a 1953, 5 window, 3100, with a 235 (3769716), built Sept. 21 1961 (1 2 1 1), cartridge style oil filter, oil bath air cleaner, Carter Y-F carb. With 3 on the tree, has been converted to 12V.

I have owned it for 17 years and drive it often. Not daily, but often. (I added seat belts and turn signals for that reason.) The body and frame are in good shape so no problems there. The engine suddenly started making a noise I don’t like so I’ve decided to do a rebuild. I haven’t been into the engine except to pull the valve cover and side plate so I don’t know what I’m going to find.

As long as I have it out, I figure now will be the time to make some changes.

I have had trouble with cooling during a low speed hot summer parade so I’m planning on lowering the radiator and possibly going to a 4 tube.

I’m thinking about going with Fenton headers and duel exhaust. (She really has all the power I need now, but it never hurts to breathe a little easier.)

Should I stick with the Carter carb. or look for a Rochester to be a little more original?


Some of the insulation on the wiring looks a little brittle and I’m thinking that while the engine is out it would be a lot easier to put in a new wiring harness.

The bed looks like old barn lumber so while I’m at it I’m going to replace it as well.

I thought about putting some chrome under the hood but decided against it. Just not into the Bling-Bling. I’m more of a ‘Just drove in off the ranch.’ kind of guy. Plus, I never show the truck, I just love to drive it.

Sorry this was so long. But it is your turn now. What do I need to watch out for? What do I need to do and what should I avoid doing? What are the pitfalls I need to avoid? A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Don't mess with the radiator position. Use the conversion plate to run the high-mount water pump like the 54/early 55 235's used. You already have the best possible carburetor, so don't go back to a Rochester.

Fentons are mostly eye candy and they have a habit of causing poor cold engine performance due to loss of most of the heat riser function the stock exhaust manifold provides. You also have twice as many exhaust system components to rust out, pipes and mufflers.
Jerry

Thanks.

I am new to all of this so am not to sure how it all works. That said I will give you my two cents worth; a company produced what they called a DESERT COOLER way back when. I put one in my 1st series 55 when it kept overheating driving it around Nevada, desert area of California and Arizona. After installing it when stationed in Oklahoma and using it all over and dailey in southern New Mexico, never had a lick of trouble: never overheated.

Have you adequately diagnosed the "noises"? May be something easily corrected without the unneeded effort and expense.

I think Paul is correct. Find out what your engine problem is before jumping totally in. No use wasting money.
The wiring is another issue. If you feel the wire insulation is no longer up to the task, then you should replace it. At 12 volt your current load on the wires will be half of when it was a six volts, but a short from bad insulation will not care. Unsure if you have the cloth type or more modern polymer type but you can find both. Either a complete wiring harness or just spools of wire are available.

On the same subject of rebuilding a 235, I have one that has been sitting for 16-17 yrs. Supposedly it has a blown head gasket and the oil pump quit working and was run for about 15 miles. After the oil pump incident, the rod bearings were changed but the main bearings were not. There was a low THUMP after that until the head gasket supposedly blew.

Now for the question and I guess it would have to be directed more to the locals (Southern Maryland); Is there a resonably priced local machine shop (Mechanisville, Leonardtown, California, Lexington Park, Great Mills, etc) that would be able to turn a crank and/or do something with the block and head?
Thanks for your time and trouble guys and good luck to you Jerry 53 Stewart

Ditto on HrL's suggestion to use the water pump relocation plate.
No need to chop anything - no need for a new radiator.

If you want to change the wiring, and you do not have/need any new circuits (except for maybe turn signals), Jim Carter Truck Parts and Classic Parts (Trucks) have very nice and nicely-priced original-appearance wiring harnesses for 1953 trucks (plastic covered wires). As posted above, you can use original wiring with a 12v system

If the bed-boards are functional, and they can be stained black, and they look OK, use them (if they do not embarrass you).

What engine is your Carter carburetor from?
If it was from a 216 or early 235, the later Rochester's do not leak like earlier ones. A 216 or early 235 carburetor do not match the potential of a later 235.

I have Fentons, but would not do that again (even with my 261 with a higher performance single carburetor). The is a matter of taste/desire.

You'll see many opinions on each of these "changes".

I agree on finding out what is wrong before diving in.

I agree with raising the water pump location. Try that before replacing the radiator. Also, you may have crud build up in the engine cooling system that will be eliminated if you do need a rebuild.

The Fenton headers probably don't add anything to the performance of a stock engine but they do add to the cool factor. I use Jim Carter's exhaust heating plate to warm the intake manifold with no problems. And I love the sound of a split exhaust 6 while running through the gears.

Uhhhh- - - - -Cletis- - - - -the water pump is too low already. The conversion plate raises it.
Jerry

ditto on finding the problem and fixing it 1st, if practical.

I recently did a full rebuild on a 54 235. With the exception of the machining I did all the labor and it wasn't cheap.
Good luck

OOPS. Correction made.

A carburetor is not a fashion statement.

Thanks everyone for all the good info.

I've pulled the valve cover and the side plate looking for the cause of the thumping noise with no luck. It started suddenly and I really don’t want to just run it till it pukes. If it was a 2000 Yukon I wouldn’t worry about it. But with the miles I’ve put on it over the last 17 years plus however many it had before I got it, I figure it is about due. At my age with a good rebuild it should out last me.

Sounds like the new headers are out. I wasn’t really high on them and wanted the opinions of those that have had them.

It also appears that I will stay with the Carter carb. I have only had to rebuild it once and it has never given me any real problems.

I will be doing all the work myself except for the machining. This will be my first straight 6. That’s why I was looking for some input. I’ve done a couple V8’s and a whole lot of big diesels. (I’m a retired Chief Engineering Officer, U.S. Merchant Marine, so I mean BIG diesels, like a 3 foot bore with a 4 foot stroke.)

I admit that the new bed wood is pure vanity. It was just so pretty when I first put it in and the 4 coats of varnish were still fresh and new.

Thanks again for all the input.

re. 235's. The head is heavy. Around 100lbs with the manifolds mounted. I had my head totally rebuilt with new valves, guides, seats, springs and keepers for $300. It was totally cleaned and ready for paint.

The crank is also heavy. I'm unsure of the mileage on mine but it was on std size main bearings. It was turned 0.020 down on the rod journals and 0.010 on the mains. You should see similar unless your banging is a bent/broken rod. Over sized bearings in those sizes were readily available.

Have the flywheel resurfaced. Theres really no need to have the assembly balanced, unless you're gonna run it WOT.

I had the block dipped and cleaned and it needed to be bored 0.60 over to get the cyl's true. 0.080 is the max you can find in pistons and rings and there are some that say thats too much.
Hopefully you'll need less.

Get a new oil pump since you're going this far. There are rebuild kits available but new are readily available.

You're probably going to need a new cam. At the least get a 261 cam or one of the aftermarket performance cams. The 53/54 Vette's with the Blue Flame 235's had a hotter cam shaft that is very close in spec, if not the same spec as the 261. Along w/3 carbs those engines were rated at 150 HP. They also had factory dual exhaust with working intake manifold heat.
Get new lifters with a new cam as well as the gear, spacer and hold down clap. You'll break the old gear trying to get it off. You can reuse the spacer and clamp so don't loose them.

As HRL and others have said, stay with the Carter if your staying single carb.

Get the Best Gasket gasket kit. If only just for the rear main rope seal. It is the best on the market. I personally think they are the best gaskets for these old engines.

There are on line parts houses that have full rebuild kits. Inquire on availability and when you can expect shipment before you place the order. You can end up waiting quite awhile for some of the parts. I waited nearly 2 months for the oil pump on my 54 but it is a odd yr.

Good luck
Dave

If the 235 is a 1961 block you can use the two piece rubber seal on the rear main. I think Best Gasket offers it.

Since you are going to do a lot of work and investment, would you consider a 261? It should be a direct replacement. I did that and was very pleased with the results. I thought it was a better investment than the old 235, and way stronger (with the dual carbs, 848 head, dual exhaust and cam upgrade). Nothing wrong with the 235 choice either, just something to consider if you are going to do all that work.
don

Thanks for all the additional information guys. I really appreciate it.

I hadn’t even considered going to a 261 block. As the engine in it now isn’t correct for the truck it isn’t like I would be hurting the value of the truck, historically or cash wise. I might just start looking around for one.

If you want a real sleeper- - - -the stroked 261 that can be built to almost 300 cubic inches is an option:

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/conv/stovebolt.html

Nothing like a 235 lookalike that can hold its own with a lot of V8's!
Jerry