The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop statring 216 after rebuild

I am getting my 52 chevy pick up back togeather and trying to get it to start the first time, all I can get is bacfire thru the carb. I rebuilt the type B downdraft carb with a kit and found a problem. The ball in the power valve assembly is stuck in the plug, allowing fuel to pass irregardless of mercury level pressure. Is this part of my problem? Does anyone sell just this part? Any suggestions to get engine to fire instead of backfire?

Backfire through the carb? Almost sounds like the timing could be off 180 degrees.
Double check your timing, making sure the rotor is pointing to #1 plug on the dist cap when #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke.

re. your carb. These engines will start and run with the power valve stuck in either position, so the power valve problem may not be your starting problem. Make sure your idle mixture is turned out 1.5 turns and don't be afraid to crank the idle speed screw down enough to get a fast idle. You can adjust it down after it's running. Make sure you see a good squirt of fuel in the venturi when you manually open the throttle to max open. If you do the carb should be setup to atleast start it up.
If your rings are new and the valves fully close and were renewed you should have good enough compression to start.

Double check your timing and make sure the plug wires are in the cap correctly.
Good luck
Dave

Dave
The engine got a complete upgrade with new pistons, rings, hardened valves...by an engine shop. I have added a rebuild kit for carb, new coil, points, condenser, rotor, plugs and wires. My idle mixture is at 1.5 turns out and tomorrow I will increase the idle speed as you suggest. I'm sure I'm getting fuel...it smells like I flooded it a couple of times.
to time it I turned the engine by hand to find the "ball" on the flywheel, but it had a #5 beside it. I checked the piston with a feeler wire and found that the #5 piston was TDC rather than the #1! My manual assured me the truck should be timed with #1 at TDC so I continued turning until I got #1 to TDC and proceeded to set the dist as you described. Could it be possible I should be using the #5 at TDC? Would that be 180 degrees off of #1?? You and I are on same page in timing it with the manual, but there is no ball on the flywheel other than the one labeled #5. The order of fire is 1,5,3,6,2,4. Any thoughts (other than I'm looney)?

OK- - - -two pistons come to the top of the stroke at once. One is on the compression stroke with both valves closed. The other cylinder is on "overlap" with the intake valve opening and the exhaust valve closing. The "companion" cylinders are 1 and 6, 2 and 5, and 3 and 4. The simplest way to determine which cylinder is ready for the spark plug to fire is to watch the action of the valves.

Take the valve cover off, turn the engine clockwise from the front, and watch the #6 cylinder valves. The exhaust valve is the last one in line back at the firewall. The valve will open (spring compressed) and begin to close. As the exhaust valve closes the intake (second from the rear) will begin to open. At that point, the #1 cylinder is at top dead center of the compression stroke with both valves closed and ready for the spark plug to fire. Forget about timing marks- - - -get the #6 valves rocking, wire the distributor cap with the rotor pointing toward the #1 plug wire, and complete the firing order 5-3-6-2-4. Turn the distributor housing clockwise until the points close, then turn it CCW until they just barely open. Button everything up, lock the distributor adjustment down, and crank it up. Works every time!
Jerry

Jerry is usually spot on with this advice however , just in case you actually do have the timing correct , this is a stuff up I made when I was just a pup .

I had the intake valve lash tooooo tight , lovely backfiring thru the carb

To me, and it's just to me, Jerry's procedure is to labor intensive. Here is how I've done it since making a big mistake on a '58 Corvette. Pull out the #1 sparkplug. Put your finger or thumb over the hole and have someone bump the starter a bit at a time until your finger/thumb is pushed away by the engine compression. Then look in the bell housing hole for the BB. Tweek the crank one way or the other with a bar or pulling on the fan belt, to center the BB. It won't take very much turning, like maybe an inch or two. Drop the distrubutor in with the rotor pointing to #1. It should fire right up and you can set the exact timing with your light.

Labor intensive- - - -yes. Idiot-proof, maybe! Also, even if the timing marks are wrong, or not even there, the split overlap procedure works- - - -every time!

The ghetto rats I taught for 30-something years were math geniuses when it came to figuring out how to cut, weigh, package, and merchandise the drugs they sold. Anything remotely resembling making an honest living- - - -it had to be spelled out in precise detail, and I'd usually pick out the literary savant (the kid with the 4th. grade reading level) to read the instructions for the kid who was actually pulling the wrenches!
Jerry

Difference between a Professional and a Shadetree mechanic. Lightening struck my shadetree and killed it so now I just wing it in the driveway.

If you have been cranking a lot and really flooded it bad id put oil in cylinders and new plugs

Short cuts usually come back to bite you in the ah hum. I have to admit tho, I've worked on many an engine that had timing issues. So out comes the number one plug. Feel for the compression stroke with the thumb. Move the timing mark to TDC. Reset the distributor to number one firing position. It's never failed me. Too lazy to remove a valve cover that isn't leaking. If the valve cover is off, I'll do it Jerry's way.

Rick

Jerry's way is the correct way to set ign. timing.
I like his posts as he is just like my favorite shop teacher back in 63. A retired Air Force mechanic that was very understanding but did not take any guff!!
But I usually do as so many here have suggested just pull #1 plug.
Listen for the compression to build then confirm the rotor is pointing to under number one plug wire in the cap. Remember that all pistons are at TDC twice but only once on the compression stroke. You need TDC #1.

You can have it running, just recheck the fundamentals.

I agree with Jerry's way.
Don't seal the valve cover after a rebuild until it is running right and all the valves are adjusted.
Then you can do a for certain distributor placement.
Then fine time it, after it's running.

Don

My valve cover has never been sealed. A 216 pumps little oil and I have never had a leak on top.

Both my 216s pump all kinds of oil up top. I have quite a time trying to keep them sealed up.

Thanks to all of you "shade tree or other mechanics", I appreciate the advise and comments. I still haven't had any luck .... I tried jerry's way and rechecked lash on valves. I am wondering what else might not be right. Have family coming over so am taking a few days off....maybe inspiration will strike.

Bob

Bob, load it up and bring it to KC this weekend. Bet all the minds there can get her fired up.

One thing about doing the initial timing Jerry's way is you can determine if your timing gears were installed properly.

To Jerry and Shop Shark and other helpful guys.......YAHOO! I started over and found I wasn't getting consistant spark, so I ordered a new coil and guess what? It fired right up. I appreciate the advise and encouragement.

Bob

hooray !!